Regionals Heating Up, Softball and more... - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 6, 2005

RE: Regionals Heating Up, Softball and more...

Date: Jun 6, 2005

The problem is the AAUP home page links to this message board and it is called the "AAUP-USM Message Board". I think this association generally hurts the AAUP cause at USM. This board should be hosted independently of the AAUP and with a different name in my opinion.

Date: Jun 6, 2005

Concerned McNelis Supporter wrote:

A whole lot of pain.

Just to set the record straight, I am not a professor or a member of AAUP. The AAUP would be better off if not held responsible for my ramblings.

But Supporter, if I might ask you to read the thread again carefully, I think you will see that what I criticized was the line "She'll rip your head off and shove it up your nose." That was reported in the Hattiesburg American and attributed to Richard Giannini.

Like Will Rogers said, "All I know is what I read in the papers."

Date: Jun 6, 2005

McNelis said the quote herself on WDAM, it was about what she thought of the tenacity of one of her freshman players. I saw it myself and it was reported here as well back when it happened.

Date: Jun 6, 2005

I find it amusing to read the posts on this thread where athletic supporters are critical of academics who post negative about athletics. Since athletic supporters are knowledgeable about sports, they are critical of academics who they view as novices at best in their knowledge of the sporting world. A supporter of Coach Lee-McNelis who has personal knowledge of her worth and ability is understandable outraged at the comments made about her.

Now, lets go back in time and look at what SFT and many athletic supporters said about my friend Gary Stringer. They felt quite smug about labeling him as a villain and repeating the SFT crap about criminal action. Perhaps there is a lesson here. As a faculty member, I have read on this site, and in the news, things about faculty that are inaccurate, denigrating, and reek of a terminal case of the dummy A$$. I have my own opinions of coaches and the athletic director that I discuss with my friends and acquaintances but do not talk about on this Board. Since I played a sport as an undergraduate, I know that it is easy to be critical, but performance on the field can be very difficult. Hence my reason for limiting my comments about athletics. Likewise, it is easy to criticize faculty, call them names, and lump them all as losers. I know my post will have no impact on those who have an emotional attachment to criticizing faculty. However, since USM faculty are exactly the same as faculty at Ole Miss, State, Alabama, LSU, etc., why don't you all give faculty in those places some of your two cent’s worth of advice. They are as deserving as USM faculty, and frankly we could stand some rest.

Date: Jun 6, 2005

ram wrote:

Concerned McNelis Supporter wrote: A whole lot of pain. Just to set the record straight, I am not a professor or a member of AAUP. The AAUP would be better off if not held responsible for my ramblings. But Supporter, if I might ask you to read the thread again carefully, I think you will see that what I criticized was the line "She'll rip your head off and shove it up your nose." That was reported in the Hattiesburg American and attributed to Richard Giannini. Like Will Rogers said, "All I know is what I read in the papers."

ram, anybody who reads the message board regularly knows that you are one of its more cautious and thoughtful posters.

Date: Jun 6, 2005

ram wrote:

Like Will Rogers said, "All I know is what I read in the papers."

Or perhaps it was: "All I think I know is what I think I remember reading in the papers, maybe."

Date: Jun 6, 2005

ram wrote:

ram wrote: Like Will Rogers said, "All I know is what I read in the papers." Or perhaps it was: "All I think I know is what I think I remember reading in the papers, maybe."

A little too cautious. A little too legalistic.

Date: Jun 6, 2005

Concerned McNelis Supporter wrote:

... This equal govenrance many of you so eloquently speak of, is equal both ways in my book. In my mind and many other alumni, the AAUP is just as much at fault for the current state of affairs as Dr. Thames!!!!! I suggest the AAUP start taking the role of trying to be part of the solution and not part of the problem like they have been for the entire Thames presidency. But I guess of its not "your" way then this equal governance thing just isnt what its cracked up to is it?

...I am ashamed I have a degree from USM because of the antics the AAUP has pulled over the last few years!!!!! This is just futher proof that the AAUP is just as much part of the problem as the solution.

... Now, I hope the college board appoints someone ten times as hard-ass as Dr. Thames to run off many of you who have made my USM a trash dump of professors and administrators!!!!!...

Concerned, I have been reading this thread, but have not contributed until now. I'm no longer a prof at USM and I was never a member of the AAUP. With that said, I must point out some errors in your statement above.

1) It isn't "equal governance", but rather "shared governance". The president has the final authority for the decision. "Shared governance just means he listens to faculty input and debate before making the decision. Corporations even use this method when making big changes.

2) You have a right to your opinion, but remember all opinions are not equal. If you don't back up the opinion with facts, evidence or logical argument the opinion earns no respect. So what makes you think AAUP is "part of the problem"? What has AAUP done other than speak the truth to the public? Why do you consider getting the truth to the citizens a problem? Please point out some of the "antics" of the AAUP that caused problems.

3) Finally, if the IHL board "appoints someone ten times as hard-ass as Dr. Thames", this will not be a problem for faculty if, and only if, the president follows the principles of academia and uses "shared governance". I hope this happens to prove to people like you that the issue with the faculty was never change, but the process used to accomplish change.

Date: Jun 6, 2005

Concerned McNelis Supporter wrote:

As a close personal aquaintance of Coach Lee-McNelis, who has know her longer than most of you have been mis-educating students at USM, I am shocked at what i've seen posted here tonight. To my knowledge, there is not one coach or professor who cares more about USM and it success than her. She gave up more money and much better prestige to "come home to USM". She truly loves USM and the opportunities you professors and the institution has given her and her family. To attribute a quote to her in the fashion that a few ignorant folks above have done is no different than the "climb to the administration building and start shooting" comment you folks have turned back flips over for weks and weeks of your pathetic little lives. This burn the village mentality you, my professors have taken over the last few years just makes me sick. So sick in fact that I am truly embarrased that some of you educated me. The USM I attended is so much different than the USM of today and I dont just fault Dr. Thames. This equal govenrance many of you so eloquently speak of, is equal both ways in my book. In my mind and many other alumni, the AAUP is just as much at fault for the current state of affairs as Dr. Thames!!!!! I suggest the AAUP start taking the role of trying to be part of the solution and not part of the problem like they have been for the entire Thames presidency. But I guess of its not "your" way then this equal governance thing just isnt what its cracked up to is it? Posters "Ram" and "Wait a minute"........Im waiting for an explination and a bit of attribution on the comments you both made below concerning head and nose. Knowing Coach McNelis as well as I do, I cant possibly believe she would have said such. Unless it was tongue in cheek. And knowing you guys, if thats the case, you wont rest until her career has been destroyed and even her dog dislikes her!!!! If you guys are just digging for trash, I suggest you lay off before you dig a hole a bit too deep to climb out of!!!! I am ashamed I have a degree from USM because of the antics the AAUP has pulled over the last few years!!!!! This is just futher proof that the AAUP is just as much part of the problem as the solution. I had a little caring for your plight at the start of the Thames presidency........but as time has gone on, your selfish droning has swayed me. Now, I hope the college board appoints someone ten times as hard-ass as Dr. Thames to run off many of you who have made my USM a trash dump of professors and administrators!!!!! Id like to see one or two of you post something positive about USM. I guess thats too much to ask!!!!! And by coming here I know all of you will expound reams and reams about how i'm out of the loop, not in the know, weak spirited, part of the Thames team, ect ect ect. I really dont care.......I just know of all the folks you seem to like to pick on, Joye Lee-McNelis should be last on the list!!!!!!!

I am a supporter of the USM chapter of AAUP. I have no beef against Coach Lee-McNelis, or any other coach at USM. I never comment on USM athletics, or the performance of any USM team. Since I know very little about what makes a basketball team successful, or what makes any other sports organization successful, that's just as well.

You should note that only a minority of the posters here get involved on the athletics threads at all.

And I don't blame you for being angry about a nasty-sounding, misattributed quotation--an error that some other posters have now admitted to.

But, frankly, there is no excuse for statements like this:

I am ashamed I have a degree from USM because of the antics the AAUP has pulled over the last few years!!!!! This is just futher proof that the AAUP is just as much part of the problem as the solution. I had a little caring for your plight at the start of the Thames presidency........but as time has gone on, your selfish droning has swayed me. Now, I hope the college board appoints someone ten times as hard-ass as Dr. Thames to run off many of you who have made my USM a trash dump of professors and administrators!!!!!

What you are calling for, whether you realize it or not, is the complete destruction of a university. And you want this, why? To spite some professors who angered you?

I kind of doubt that the IHL Board, in its most vindictive moments, could find "sometime ten times as hard ass as Dr. Thames." Such a person would be in the position of having to outdo one of the worst university presidents in American history. What kind of alumnus wishes that on his or her alma mater?

One thing I have learned about major college athletics: there are plenty of universities that operate successful athletic programs without calling down fire and destruction on academics. Clemson manages to do this; so do many more. The notion that athletic success requires making war on the faculty is one of the worst legacies that Shelby Thames and his backers have fastened on to USM. Those who cannot give up on this notion will continue to be part of the problem.

Robert Campbell

Date: Jun 6, 2005

SFT a "Hard-ass" and more...

Date: Jun 6, 2005

RE: Regionals Heating Up, Softball and more...

Date: Jun 6, 2005

Locker Room wrote:

My dear Concerned McNelis Supporter, Let me say first that I am am avid supporter of women's sports and a strong supporter of Coach McNelis. With the hope that you fully understand that, I will procede with the main part of this post:

What you say about AAUP makes no sense at all. On the one hand, you and other detractors have depicted AAUP as if it is a great big powerful monster with sharp teeth and long claws with the ability to "rip the head off of a university and shove it up it's nose." On the other hand, some detractors have depicted AAUP to be more like an altered, impotent cat with no power whatsoever, a small membership, and as powerless as a tattered and faded flag flapping in the wind. So which way is it? You and the other group of detractors can't have it both ways. You grossly overestimate AAUP's power. AAUP has no budget except what might be provided through its modest membership dues, and it has absolutely no authority with the official university structure. All it can do is let the sunshine in.....turn on the lights.....provide information..... And that is precisely what it has done. It was not AAUP that submitted exaggerated enrollment figures to the IHL. So don't blame AAUP. It was not IHL that caused the university to attain embarrasing national attention when that ill conceived and botched attempt to fire those two professors occurred. Do don't blame AAUP. AAUP did not write that grossly inadequate drug and alcohol abuse policy. So don't blame AAUP. USM does not prepare academic resumes for anyone. So don't blame AAUP. The AAUP engaged in no behaviors that led to USM's enbarrasing drop to the fourth tier in the USNews national ratings. So don't blame AAUP. It was not AAUP that failed to do the things necessary to prevent USM from retaining its full accreditation status with its major accreditation body. So don't blame AAUP. You know where the blame lies....for these and many other outrageous and embarrasing events that have occurred at USM.

Correction: "It was not IHL that caused the university to attain embarrasing national attention when that ill conceived and botched attempt to fire those two professors occurred" was intended to read it was not AAUP that caused . . ."

Date: Jun 6, 2005

Locker Room wrote:

My dear Concerned McNelis Supporter,

Let me say first that I am am avid supporter of women's sports and a strong supporter of Coach McNelis. With the hope that you fully understand that, I will procede with the main part of this post:

What you say about AAUP makes no sense at all. On the one hand, you and other detractors have depicted AAUP as if it is a great big powerful monster with sharp teeth and long claws with the ability to "rip the head off of a university and shove it up it's nose." On the other hand, some detractors have depicted AAUP to be more like an altered, impotent cat with no power whatsoever, a small membership, and as powerless as a tattered and faded flag flapping in the wind. So which way is it? You and the other group of detractors can't have it both ways. You grossly overestimate AAUP's power. AAUP has no budget except what might be provided through its modest membership dues, and it has absolutely no authority with the official university structure. All it can do is let the sunshine in.....turn on the lights.....provide information..... And that is precisely what it has done. It was not AAUP that submitted exaggerated enrollment figures to the IHL. So don't blame AAUP. It was not AAUP that caused the university to attain embarrasing national attention when that ill conceived and botched attempt to fire those two professors occurred. Do don't blame AAUP. AAUP did not write that grossly inadequate drug and alcohol abuse policy. So don't blame AAUP. USM does not prepare academic resumes for anyone. So don't blame AAUP. The AAUP engaged in no behaviors that led to USM's enbarrasing drop to the fourth tier in the USNews national ratings. So don't blame AAUP. It was not AAUP that failed to do the things necessary to prevent USM from retaining its full accreditation status with its major accreditation body. So don't blame AAUP. You know where the blame lies....for these and many other outrageous and embarrasing events that have occurred at USM.

We're still waiting for your comment to this, Concerned McNelis Supporter.