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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
Post Info TOPIC: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
USM Sympathizer

Date:
RE: RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
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quote:
Originally posted by: Son of Bubba
"Robert, you really need to give it a break.  You alienate far more people than win. I am having trouble understanding why USM supporters allow you to stick your nose in their business anyway, unless, of course, the underlying reason is that they aren't USM supporters at all.  If the goal of the AAUP is to tear everything down, then it is clear why you are welcome."

Son of Bubba,


Robert Campbell posts here for the same reason many other academics from across the country do -- because we care about what is happening at USM, and because we see what is happening there as an awful travesty of the best principles of the American academy.  What is happening at USM could easily happen elsewhere, although I have to admit that it would be hard to invent a figure as inept and laughable as Shelby Thames.  If he were a character in a satirical novel, most readers would find him an incredible caricature. 


Your basic assumption does not make much sense.  What POSSIBLE reason would AAUP have for wanting to "tear everything down" at USM?  After all, AAUP members (unlike you, I assume) are employed at USM and thus have good reason to want to see the institution prosper.  


On another matter, can (or seeker) you please give us some specific examples of letters by faculty and their supporters that have turned people off?  Can you please explain why they have turned people off?  Most of the letters I've seen from faculty and supporters have made solid points, whereas most of the letters I've seen from faculty attackers have resorted to tired old cliches (such as the one about the inmates running the asylum; how many more times will we have to hear that one?).


Finally, as another poster said above, the opinions that really matter are the opinions of USM's peers in the broader academic community, and I know of no outside academic who isn't horrifed (if he or she knows about the situation) by what is happening at USM.  Shelby Thames has ruined the reputation of your school in the eyes of the nation.  And, when SACS arrives on campus for its big reaccreditation visit, USM's prospects will be very worrisome.  Thanks to Shelby's ineptness, you may not have seen anything yet.


 



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Robert Campbell

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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Son of Bubba,

You've said that

As it often is, the solution to the USM delimma lies somewhere in the middle between SFT and AAUP.  Many of us are willing to go to that middle.

Since you aren't happy with what SFT has been doing, and you aren't happy with what many of the posters on this board have been proposing, what do you think should be happening instead?

Robert Campbell

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Seeker

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RE: RE: RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"

On another matter, can (or seeker) you please give us some specific examples of letters by faculty and their supporters that have turned people off?  Can you please explain why they have turned people off?  Most of the letters I've seen from faculty and supporters have made solid points, whereas most of the letters I've seen from faculty attackers have resorted to tired old cliches (such as the one about the inmates running the asylum; how many more times will we have to hear that one?).

 "


The one that most often comes to my mind and I have pointed to countless times when you pose this question to me (at least once a week) is the one penned to the HA by the Eastern European Chemistry professor (his name always escapes me) but that letter contained the phase "Dr. Thames, you are not my boss.". That was a very damning letter for your cause.

Because, unlike the faculty (according to this professor) the rest of us do have a boss or at least someone to answer too. I know as well as you and others have found out that Dr. Thames is indeed your boss, in ever sense of the word. But, the arrogance of the statement turned a great deal of the community off.

The Hattiesburg American seems to have purged their archive for I have been unable to find it.

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A Rose by Any Other Name

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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Seeker, there is one reason and one reason only that part of the Hattiesburg community supports Thames and that reason is money and what he is doing for them in the way of "contracts". The other community members are afraid of him and they are the ones who have not been vocal but are out there in large number.

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name dropper

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
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The prof seeker speaks of is Peter Butko.  My favorite PB story is when he walked out of the first PUC meeting after Thames brought that Naylor women over from HR who put on that horrid role-playing exercise (wasting a half day or more).  Butko told the newspaper that he had alot of work to do and no time to sit around playing childrens games.  Classic! 


Who better than an eastern european gentleman to recognize a tyrrany and speak out about it? 



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billabong

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The question I would like to ask Seeker is how he/she thinks all those marketing profs he/she is fond of voted in the campus wide no confidence vote on Thames.

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LeftASAP

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" The one that most often comes to my mind and I have pointed to countless times when you pose this question to me (at least once a week) is the one penned to the HA by the Eastern European Chemistry professor (his name always escapes me) but that letter contained the phase "Dr. Thames, you are not my boss.". That was a very damning letter for your cause. Because, unlike the faculty (according to this professor) the rest of us do have a boss or at least someone to answer too. I know as well as you and others have found out that Dr. Thames is indeed your boss, in ever sense of the word. But, the arrogance of the statement turned a great deal of the community off. The Hattiesburg American seems to have purged their archive for I have been unable to find it."

I know the letter you are referring to Seeker.  I was concerned about that letter also.  Not because it isn't true, but rather it would be misunderstood by the public.


 


The relationship between a professor and his "boss" is very different than what occurs in the business world.  Professors are more like private contractors.  The closest person to being the professor's "boss" is the department chair.  But even then is requires explanation.


 


The Chair assigns the professor classes to teach, but can't tell the prof how to teach the class.  Of course, the students, other profs and the chair evaluate the prof’s teaching.  In that sense the chair and peers do a boss' job. 


 


The prof is responsible for research and service and is evaluated annually on these activities by the chair and the prof's peers.  But again the chair can't tell the prof what or how to do his research etc.


 


The chair, representing the department faculty, negotiates with each prof at annual evaluation time what needs to be done and how the prof will be evaluated on each accomplishment.   That is as close as it comes to ordering as far as research and service is concerned. 


 


So it would really be a stretch to call the dean, provost or president the professor's boss.  At best, the president is the provost's "boss", and the provost is the dean's "boss" etc.  At each level all is supposed to be negotiated.  The reason is the credential of the faculty is what allows them to call it a university.   We are not making this up.  This is what the academy or university is, i.e. a collection of scholars.


 


It isn't a simple "top down system".   That is why universities have earned the respect of societies world wide that private business never have.



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Seeker

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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I have no problem whatsoever with Professors wanting to be private contractors, but as long as you taking advantage of the state system for benefits and retirement, then some level of accountability should be expected. But, there is little to no accountablility.

That's where the rub comes, you guys say you are accountable, most of the public fails to see it, and you even reinfoce the preception in your last post.

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LeftASAP

Date:
RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: name dropper
"The prof seeker speaks of is Peter Butko.  My favorite PB story is when he walked out of the first PUC meeting after Thames brought that Naylor women over from HR who put on that horrid role-playing exercise (wasting a half day or more).  Butko told the newspaper that he had alot of work to do and no time to sit around playing childrens games.  Classic!  Who better than an eastern european gentleman to recognize a tyrrany and speak out about it?  "

I love the famous quote Peter related to the Faculty Senate that he learned as a child in a communist country.  IIRC, he said this after it was learned that emails were monitored at USM. I believe it went:


"Don't think.,


If you think, don't tell anyone. 


If you tell,  don't write it down.


If you write it down, don't sign it.


If you sign it, don't be surprised."


 


 



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USM Sympathizer

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" The one that most often comes to my mind and I have pointed to countless times when you pose this question to me (at least once a week) is the one penned to the HA by the Eastern European Chemistry professor (his name always escapes me) but that letter contained the phase "Dr. Thames, you are not my boss.". That was a very damning letter for your cause. Because, unlike the faculty (according to this professor) the rest of us do have a boss or at least someone to answer too. I know as well as you and others have found out that Dr. Thames is indeed your boss, in ever sense of the word. But, the arrogance of the statement turned a great deal of the community off. The Hattiesburg American seems to have purged their archive for I have been unable to find it."

Seeker,


Thanks for the reply.  I think what the professor simply meant is this: Shelby Thames may indeed be the "boss" of faculty at USM (although most intelligent college presidents think of themselves as the colleagues of their fellow faculty members), but all professors (like all professionals) must answer to higher standards.  They must ultimately put those standards before any single person, especially when that person seems corrupt, inept, and unethical.  The administrator of a hospital may be the "boss" of the doctors who work there, but the doctors are sworn to a higher oath, and if the "boss" does things that damage the hospital and ruin its reputation and put its patients in danger, then a doctor would be unethical if he did not at the very least call these facts to the attention of the public.  The kind of logic implied in your comment would, I am afraid, justify all kinds of unethical conduct ("I was just following orders, judge").  Every institution that takes its responsibilities seriously (including the U.S. military) allows those of lower rank to disobey orders they consider unethical or irresponsible.  That, I think, is all the professor with the Eastern European name was trying to imply.  He may also have had in mind the ideal of shared governance, which has a long tradition in universities, and which makes universities different from a private business.  It also makes U.S. universities the most respected branch of American education.  We are not like universities in other countries, which often have to toe various party lines.


I sometimes sense that "regular" people envy the position of university professors, while at the same time feeling contempt for them.  Perhaps the two feelings are not unrelated. 


Again, though, thanks for your response; at least it's possible to have an intelligent discussion with you.


 



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LeftASAP

Date:
RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"I have no problem whatsoever with Professors wanting to be private contractors, but as long as you taking advantage of the state system for benefits and retirement, then some level of accountability should be expected. But, there is little to no accountablility. That's where the rub comes, you guys say you are accountable, most of the public fails to see it, and you even reinfoce the preception in your last post."

Accountability is the name of the game, Seeker.  Faculty are held accountable.  Didn't you read my "annual evaluation" process above.  Faculty are evaluated and ranked by the chair or personnel committee each year.  Raises, promotion and tenure are determined by annual evaluations.   If a prof doesn't perform, they get a terminal contract.


Maybe it is tenure you don't understand.  Once tenured, the prof can only be terminated for cause.  That is, a good reason must be given before termination is justified.  The prof is given an opportunity to correct deficiencies in performance, but if they fail they can be terminated.  This is called a "post tenure review process". 


Now, Seeker, I have addressed the issues you raised, but can you tell me where and how you came to the opinion that "there is little to no accountability" ?  Where did you get your knowledge of the academic system of governance?   *** This is where I get frustrated.**  If you don't supply this information, I have to assume all of this has been based on a mistaken opinion of what is going on in academics.  It isn't valid reasoning to think, "Oh, this is different from business, so they must not be accountable."    



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USM Sympathizer

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RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
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quote:
Originally posted by: name dropper
"Who better than an eastern european gentleman to recognize a tyrrany and speak out about it?  "
Excellent point.  I remember talking in the late 80s with a prof from Eastern Europe who could not understand why American professors of literature were so eager to embrace a "political" approach to literature.  In Hungary (he told me), such an approach was old hat and was very rigidly enforced.  To Hungarian scholars, an interest in the beauty and craftsmanship of literature (which American profs then regarded as passe) was truly revolutionary.

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USM Sympathizer

Date:
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Seeker,


1.  What prevents you from being fired by your boss simply because your boss doesn't like you or your opinions?


2.  Would it be good if professors could be fired simply because their bosses did not like them or their opinions? 



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Community observer

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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Seeker, here's how it works:

Joe Smith graduates from college. Instead of going into a well-paying job in business, he goes to graduate school. He spends probably another six to ten years getting his PhD, and maybe doing a post-doc, depending on his field. He has a PhD and a wagon-load of debt. He gets a job at USM, making half of what you do. Now he teaches three courses, serves on a jillion committees, and spends his nights, weekends, and vacations doing research and writing articles and books. At the end of several years (again, depending on field) he either does or doesn't get promotion and tenure. Let's say he does. In the meantime, his writing becomes important in his field. Other scholars notice. They say to their graduate students, "you should think about USM if you're interested in X, that's where Joe Smith is." So USM gets another good young prof, or another good graduate student because of Joe Smith. In the meantime, Joe Smith is working his tail off, and making less than $50K, maybe much less. But, Joe knew this coming in. He does it because he loves his field and what he does.
What does Joe ask in return for a 70 hour week and no money? He expects freedom to do his research and writing, he expects the respect of his peers and the administration of his school. He expects reasonable benefits, such as health insurance and retirement. Remember, he is WORKING for these things. He does not expect to have his email and telephone monitored. He does not expect to have his department ravaged and devastated. He does not expect to be derided and insulted by the president of his school and said president's friends in the community.

"Private contractor" is not an accurate description, but it's the closest we can come.

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USM Sympathizer

Date:
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quote:

Originally posted by: Community observer
"Seeker, here's how it works: Joe Smith graduates from college. Instead of going into a well-paying job in business, he goes to graduate school. He spends probably another six to ten years getting his PhD, and maybe doing a post-doc, depending on his field. He has a PhD and a wagon-load of debt. He gets a job at USM, making half of what you do. Now he teaches three courses, serves on a jillion committees, and spends his nights, weekends, and vacations doing research and writing articles and books. At the end of several years (again, depending on field) he either does or doesn't get promotion and tenure. Let's say he does. In the meantime, his writing becomes important in his field. Other scholars notice. They say to their graduate students, "you should think about USM if you're interested in X, that's where Joe Smith is." So USM gets another good young prof, or another good graduate student because of Joe Smith. In the meantime, Joe Smith is working his tail off, and making less than $50K, maybe much less. But, Joe knew this coming in. He does it because he loves his field and what he does. What does Joe ask in return for a 70 hour week and no money? He expects freedom to do his research and writing, he expects the respect of his peers and the administration of his school. He expects reasonable benefits, such as health insurance and retirement. Remember, he is WORKING for these things. He does not expect to have his email and telephone monitored. He does not expect to have his department ravaged and devastated. He does not expect to be derided and insulted by the president of his school and said president's friends in the community. "Private contractor" is not an accurate description, but it's the closest we can come. "


This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time; many thanks for laying it all out so clearly and succinctly.


 



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Jameela Lares

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Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
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Thanks, Community observer, from one of the Joe (Jane?) Smiths out there.


I honestly don't know why people think we have a "cushy" job.  Those people would never want it once they saw how much work it entails and how little it pays.  If I were paid an hourly wage, I'd be making less than I made ten years plus ago as a secretary.  We're not doing it for the money, and we're not doing it for the benefits.  We're doing it because we love the life of the mind.


Jameela



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LeftASAP

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Well put, Community observer.  Would you like to be my agent? 

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Invictus

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RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myro
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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"I have no problem whatsoever with Professors wanting to be private contractors, but as long as you taking advantage of the state system for benefits and retirement, then some level of accountability should be expected. But, there is little to no accountablility."


Although I'm not exactly sure what you (Seeker) or the mythological "general public" mean by "accountability," but I will observe that Shelby Freland Thames has essentially operated his whole career as a private contractor, availed himself of the state system for benefits & retirement, and moreover, has used public facilities (labs) & employees (mainly grad students) for personal gain. Sure, he "reimburses" the state for those facilities & employees (largely in the form of easy-to-manipulate indirect costs) but at a far, far lower cost than those facilities & employee services would cost in the equally mythological "real world."

Accountability has to be defined AND it cannot be selectively applied.

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Seeker

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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It is interesting for me to post and read here for a couple of reasons. One is becasue of how foreign your jobs are to the one I hold. It's facinating, and I do believe that the vast majority of the professors at USM are hardworking, diligent, and ethical.

I disagree with very little of what has been said in these post, but I do have a question for everyone involved?

Why do you think you have had such a hard time getting your message (side of the story) across to the community?

I have my opinion, which I will share after I hear the opines of others.

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pop tart

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RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
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quote:
Originally posted by: billabong
"The question I would like to ask Seeker is how he/she thinks all those marketing profs he/she is fond of voted in the campus wide no confidence vote on Thames."
I'll take a stab at this one.  SFT got 33 votes (I believe) in the referendum.  I bet 6-10 came from ED/IDV/Workforce Training, 10 from his supporters in the CoEP, probably 12-15 from his associates in the CoST.  Throw in the woman from library science and you have your 33.  I suspect he got no support from the rest of the CBED (outside of the ED/IDV/WT group).

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Community observer

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RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myro
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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"It is

Why do you think you have had such a hard time getting your message (side of the story) across to the community?

I have my opinion, which I will share after I hear the opines of others."


I know a lot of ordinary people who don't actually think about SFT or USM all that often. Many of the people I know have SFT's number, but aren't moved enough to write letters to the paper. Many of the people I know don't read the paper. I've heard "They should do something about him" -- not understanding who "they" is. I've also heard a lot of eye-brow raising stories, as have we all.

And, sad to say, Aubrey Lucas' silence has been devastating.

We all make a lot of assumptions about "the community" based mostly on our own part of it.

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LeftASAP

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RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"It is interesting for me to post and read here for a couple of reasons. One is becasue of how foreign your jobs are to the one I hold. It's facinating, and I do believe that the vast majority of the professors at USM are hardworking, diligent, and ethical. I disagree with very little of what has been said in these post, but I do have a question for everyone involved? Why do you think you have had such a hard time getting your message (side of the story) across to the community? I have my opinion, which I will share after I hear the opines of others."

I think faculty are viewed as the "outsiders".  I came about a decade after the interstate was built.  It was culture shock for the people living here in the country to suddenly become so close to the New Orleans culture.  SFT is a hometown boy who made good.  He has many connection the "outsiders" will never have.  (Faculty are just realizing now that we were never really considered part of the community. We are shocked by the response of our neighbors and people we go to church with etc. to this situation.)  


SFT had to played into the public's perception of the faculty as "lazy", "liberal" "outsides" to explain away why he couldn't get the support of the faculty in the beginning.  He had his own "press secretary" as "propaganda minister" representing the university PR.  Plus he had the power base behind him who were used to running things without democracy, but rather the plantation system we refer to on this board.


The public has some understanding of the business model, but not academics.  SFT used that model to get the public to understand his side knowing full well that faculty will have a hard time explaining "shared governance" to the public. ( He was right, hence the "inmates running the asylum" quotes in the press.)  


Just my $0.02. 




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Reader

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
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Seeker,


You were asked where you got the idea, ""there is little to no accountability" for faculty?  I too would like to read your reply.   This is important because it is one of the misunderstandings the public have of faculty.  But what is the source? Only you can tell us this



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Mitch

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RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"It is interesting for me to post and read here for a couple of reasons. One is becasue of how foreign your jobs are to the one I hold. It's facinating, and I do believe that the vast majority of the professors at USM are hardworking, diligent, and ethical. I disagree with very little of what has been said in these post, but I do have a question for everyone involved? Why do you think you have had such a hard time getting your message (side of the story) across to the community? I have my opinion, which I will share after I hear the opines of others."

Seeker:


The answer eludes me, except to say that in most parts of the US, professors are highly regarded, perhaps more so than people in most other professions. Hattiesburg, Mississippi seems to be an epicenter of petty politics, petty grievances, and petty jealousies. It also hurts when folks in power would rather bite off their tongue before saying how proud they are of our instructional corps, how hard they work, and how productive they are. I am reminded of an old Seinfield episode--it doesn't matter if what you say is a lie--as long as you believe it to be true, it is true. When the fine folks in Jackson say we're lazy ne'er do wells with cushy jobs...


On the other hand, maybe it's all due to the two below ground nuclear detonations out by Purvis a couple of decades ago poisoning the water...    



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Seeker

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RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myro
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quote:
Originally posted by: Reader
"Seeker,
You were asked where you got the idea, ""there is little to no accountability" for faculty?  I too would like to read your reply.   This is important because it is one of the misunderstandings the public have of faculty.  But what is the source? Only you can tell us this"


Perhaps I should have stated more clearly that there is a wide spread preception that there is little to no accountability at Southern Miss. I personnelly know that there is some degre of accountability, probably as much as any university, and more than some.

But, when you talk with someone (like myself) who has an imediate supervisor, then there is the preception that there is little accountability in compairison. Then when you have letters to the editor like that of Dr. Butko, that supports and compounds the belief, despite what folks on this board may try to spin his letter into meaing. It was precieved as a direct slap in the face of the Admin at USM. What should Joe Pulbic thinkn about this.

I am going to wait until others have a chance to answer before I give my opinion on the problem as a whole.

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Cossack

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron He
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I have read post after post on this web site about working in the academic world and how working in the real world is so much different. I worked in a Chrysler auto plant for several years before going to college. I had three children and a wife during my college years and I worked in the real world part time at MacDonald’s during my four years in college. I worked afterwards in a furniture plant and a textile plant in a management capacity after college. I went to graduate school a few years later and received a Ph.D. I have researched and taught since then. Since I have been in both worlds, I feel comfortable responding to Seeker and others about the differences. First, the differences are smaller than posters such as Seeker suggest. Second, there is a great variety of management approaches in the private sector depending upon the nature of the business. In the textile mill with no union, there were many of piecework jobs where output and pay were closely related. Others were paid hourly wages. In all plants, maintenance employees often had times when they did not hit a lick because there was nothing broken or not working. For the piecework employees, the statement "an hours work for an hours pay" is a stupid comment. Likewise for workers on commission.

In many instances, faculty are a combination of piece workers and assigned task workers. Teaching, committee work, etc., are assigned tasks. Research, which usually means published work, there are exceptions, is judged in regional, national, and international markets. I know of one Nobel Prize winner who published only a dozen or so articles in his career. Many articles were seminal and path breaking. Such a scholar could not exist in a SFT world, or in the world of the critics of USM faculty.

Since it is impossible to teach people who wish not to learn, I will call a halt to this episode of wasting my time. What the heck, it is a holiday and 5:00 somewhere close.


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LeftASAP

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RE: RE: RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myro
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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" Perhaps I should have stated more clearly that there is a wide spread preception that there is little to no accountability at Southern Miss. I personnelly know that there is some degre of accountability, probably as much as any university, and more than some. But, when you talk with someone (like myself) who has an imediate supervisor, then there is the preception that there is little accountability in compairison. Then when you have letters to the editor like that of Dr. Butko, that supports and compounds the belief, despite what folks on this board may try to spin his letter into meaing. It was precieved as a direct slap in the face of the Admin at USM. What should Joe Pulbic thinkn about this. I am going to wait until others have a chance to answer before I give my opinion on the problem as a whole."

Thanks Seeker.  It should be mentioned that to get a Ph.D. a person is required to do original research with minimal supervision.  That is the key.  My major prof directed my research and gave advice, but usually he didn't know answers to questions because it was original research, so no one knew.  This self-direction is a hallmark of the Ph.D. and one reason why immediate supervision is not required or desired for faculty.   I believe this is true of many professions.


I look forward to reading your opinion on the whole problem.



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Lazy professor

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RE: Son of Bubba takes real nasty shot at Myron Henry
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Many members of the community may not understand academics as practiced at a university such as USM (or Ole Miss), but they usually understand academics as practiced at a medical school. When a person has an exotic or rare or complicated disorder, it is very common for the patient to be referred by the local practitioner to a distant medical school hospital such as Duke, University of Alabama at Birmihgham, or Vanderbilt (or even to the medical school in Jackson). Therein lies specialists . . . the researchers . . . faculty members who wrote the textbooks and journal articles pertaining to the disease in question . . . faculty members who developed the new medical procedures . . . the sophisticated equipment necessary for applying those procedures . . . faculty members who impart new knowledge to the many able and capable  community medical practitoners. No knowledgable person would say that medical school hospitals do not constitute part of the "real world." No knowledgable person would label medical school faculty as "lazy." Why do some members of the Hattiesburg community not understand this? I've lived in several university communities, but I've never seen the ignorance displayed in some of these letters to the editor that have appeared in the American or the Clarion-Ledger. The editors print them, of course, but they must do so with a smile on their face and a tongue in their cheek.

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Salesperson

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I'm going to jump into this conversation despite my relatively disheartened state of mind.  I was one of the early proponents of "selling" the anti-Thames position to the lay community in a way that the community would buy it.  I am frustrated because none of the arguments that should have made a difference have been able to cut through the propaganda, small-mindedness, anti-intellectualism, and personal agendas.  I can only now add my voice to the others who know how it is done at higher tier schools in communities and states that care about quality education. 

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Pete

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Seeker......a question for you....and other folks from the local community:


Do you really and truly believe that there is a dime's bit of difference between the collective faculty here at USM and the faculty at Ole Miss and Mississippi State???? I'm confident that, on the whole, there isn't.


Yet, why is it we don't here the "community" in and around Starkville and Oxford bashing those faculty? Why aren't THEY referred to as lazy whiners???? 


When folks in the community lambast the USM faculty, remember, we're really not significantly different in most ways from the faculty at State and Ole Miss...But, things on those campuses are generally quiet...... BUT, I dare say that if SFT or a president with similar philosophies and ways of operating were to take over, the faculty would cry out similarly.....however, they probably wouldn't have to do so very long, because their alumni and faithful in the community would have given the IHL SO MUCH GRIEF that the individual would have been removed in a heart beat!


Ahhhh, but that is STate and Ole Miss.......and that is the IHL.......as quoted by one of their own......SFT was hired to "clean house".........I assure you, what you have seen here at USM would NOT have been tolerated at STate and Ole Miss...........


Pete  



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