This is a dangerous situation! - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 22, 2005

This is a dangerous situation!

Date: May 22, 2005

This senator could not agree more; I think it is imperative that we meet in July and every month thereafter; we must be ever mindful of how we got here and how much more we will need to do!!!!! I am much less comfortable now than before the announcement.

Date: May 22, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Faculty Senator
"This senator could not agree more; I think it is imperative that we meet in July and every month thereafter; we must be ever mindful of how we got here and how much more we will need to do!!!!! I am much less comfortable now than before the announcement."

Faculty Senator,

Is there any possibility that the Faculty Senate (forgive the amount of "sugar" applied here") could kindly ask President Thames to share his goals so that the Senate could assist him?

It never hurts to ask......

This would give the faculty an opportunity to get his agenda and make him accountable.......

Date: May 22, 2005

a dangerous, wounded animal

Wasn't it Bud Holmes who compared SFT to an old turtle? Just keeps sticking its head out and keeps on going? There is a short story by Lillian Hellman about a turtle. It is caught for turtle soup and its head is cut off. The people go to bed and when they wake up the next morning the turtle is gone but leaving a trail. The headless turtle has crawled back to the brush.

Date: May 23, 2005

Last night I was doing a bit of reading, Michael Shermer's The Science of Good and Evil. On page 74, there is an interesting quote from prison psychiatrist Douglas Kelley after his evaluations of German prisoners before the Nuremberg Trials. Here it is:

As far as the leaders go, the Hitlers and the Gorings, the Goebbles and all the rest of them were not special types. Their personality patterns indicate that,while they are not socially desirable individuals, their like could very easily be found in America. Neurotic individuals like Adolf Hitler, suffering from hysterical disorders and obsessive complaints, can be found in any psychiatric clinic. And there are countless hundreds of similar ones, thwarted, discouraged, determined to do great deads, roaming the streets of any American city at this very moment. No, the Nazi leaders were not spectacular types, not personalities such as appear only once in a century. They simply had three quite unremarkable characteristics in common - and the opportunity to seize power. These three characteristics were: overweening ambition, low ethical standards, and a strongly developed nationalism which justified anything done in the name of Germandom.

Interesting diagnosis!

Amy Young

Date: May 23, 2005

"The kind of hope I often think about (especially in situations that are particularly hopeless, such as prison) I understand above all as a state of mind, not a state of the world. Either we have hope within us or we don't; it is a dimension of the soul; it's not essentially dependent on some particular observation of the world or estimate of the situation. Hope is not prognostication. It is an orientation of the spirit, an orientation of the heart; it transcends the world that is immediately experienced, and is anchored somewhere beyond its horizons.

Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously headed for early success, but, rather, an ability to work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed. The more unpropitious the situation in which we demonstrate hope, the deeper that hope is. Hope is definitely not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out."

From Disturbing the Peace by Vaclav Havel, translated by Paul Wilson (1990, Alfred A. Knopf)

Date: May 24, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Vaclav Havel
""The kind of hope I often think about (especially in situations that are particularly hopeless, such as prison) I understand above all as a state of mind, not a state of the world. Either we have hope within us or we don't; it is a dimension of the soul; it's not essentially dependent on some particular observation of the world or estimate of the situation. Hope is not prognostication. It is an orientation of the spirit, an orientation of the heart; it transcends the world that is immediately experienced, and is anchored somewhere beyond its horizons. Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously headed for early success, but, rather, an ability to work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed. The more unpropitious the situation in which we demonstrate hope, the deeper that hope is. Hope is definitely not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out." From Disturbing the Peace by Vaclav Havel, translated by Paul Wilson (1990, Alfred A. Knopf)"

How profound and appropriate! Thank you, I am going to buy the book.

Do the right thing; do it consistently; do it because it IS the right thing.

Date: May 24, 2005

Use the e-version of the book available as a reserve via ANNA:

http://reserve.lib.usm.edu/LEAJ/50134.pdf

Date: May 24, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Hopeful
"
How profound and appropriate! Thank you, I am going to buy the book.
Do the right thing; do it consistently; do it because it IS the right thing."

Profound and moving. Thank you for posting this. Applies to much more than USM.

Date: May 24, 2005

And this wacko is going to lead us through a messy and complicated SACS accreditation? Some have posted that I am overly obsessed with SACS, perhaps I am. However, it is clear that the Board and SFT are not. If the Our Board were to ask 10 other Higher Education Boards what to do, their recommendations would not match what SFT and the Board are doing. While it will not be good for USM, it will be enjoyable to watch the scramble after the SACS visit and the resulting probation.

Date: May 25, 2005

You are way off base about SACS. Things are in order for probation visit, except for a couple of your posters who have problems with completing their responsibilities. The review committee will see that.

SFT's agenda is very clear and will soon be released in June. Nothing threatening. It ties right into the strategic plan developed by the University Planning Committee.

He has been advised by Board to ignore the games and media stunts. He's been told to focus on what needs to be done. His two years will not be shortened, so you need to find another cause to pursue.

Date: May 25, 2005

That matches up pretty well with what I heard at the International Building coffee shop today.

Date: May 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: crazy
"You are way off base about SACS.
He has been advised by Board to ignore the games and media stunts. He's been told to focus on what needs to be done. His two years will not be shortened, so you need to find another cause to pursue.
"

1. Media stunts? Such as? The master of spin talks to US about media stunts?

2. Another cause? Please, recommend one. And please, not "a day's work for a day's pay." You really won't like the results of that.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: crazy
"His two years will not be shortened, so you need to find another cause to pursue. "

Whoa! No one but God knows the future. None of us can say what is going to happen tomorrow, nay, even the next minute. Man proposes, but God disposes.

Or, for a more secular caution, please recall that even a week is a long time in politics. Two years is a century. Confidant predictions are meaningless.

Jameela

Date: May 26, 2005

Yes: who would have predicted a year ago that Shelby would be in his present predicament? He has an uncanny ability to dig himself into deeper and deeper holes.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: crazy
"You are way off base about SACS. Things are in order for probation visit, except for a couple of your posters who have problems with completing their responsibilities. The review committee will see that.
SFT's agenda is very clear and will soon be released in June. Nothing threatening. It ties right into the strategic plan developed by the University Planning Committee.
He has been advised by Board to ignore the games and media stunts. He's been told to focus on what needs to be done. His two years will not be shortened, so you need to find another cause to pursue.
"

It looks to me as though some people in the Dome are getting nervous.

There is a big difference between what will get favorable reviews from Shelby Thames and what will get favorable reviews from his successor. Not knowing exactly how long SFT will be there makes it tougher to decide whose favorable reviews will matter.

And those who are already positioning themselves to blame faculty members for any remaining problems with SACS are anticipating trouble with SACS, whether they want to admit it or not.

I think everyone will be well advised to see and study Thames' agenda before judging it either clear or nonthreatening.

As for Thames being told to abandon "games and media stunts," how else has he ever gotten positive publicity while president? When Thames calls a press conference and apologizes for every false or misleading statement he has made about USM since he applied for the presidency in 2002, then we'll know that he's truly foresworn media stunts.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 26, 2005

Robert,

I think the poster may have been suggesting that Shelby has been told to ignore the "games and media stunts" of his critics, not to abandon his own. I, too, read the phrase as you did until I noticed how Third Witch interpreted it; I think she may be correct. Certainly her interpretation would fit with the generally "pro-Shelby" nature of the post as a whole. Even so, your comment (like that of Third Witch) is appropriate: who has been MORE given to games and media stunts than Shelby and his supporters (including the putschers)? It will be harder for him to play media games until he finds a replacement for LSM; I only hope that he finds someone as incompetent as she was. (PS: It may be hard for a lame duck to find a really competent person to fill this position or indeed any position.)

Date: May 26, 2005

USM Sympathizer,

On second thought, your reading makes more sense.

Of course, if Thames thinks he has been told not to respond to his critics any more, does that mean he will...

Disband the PUC?

Revert to his 2003-2004 policy of not talking to the Faculty Senate leadership?

Robert Campbell

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
" Man proposes, but God disposes. "

Or a variation: "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans."

Date: May 26, 2005

Lest we forget what we are dealing with...

Originally posted by Paranoid

Date: May 27, 2004
Views: 183

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USM Server and AAUP Board

Just wondering before I dive in here at our roomy new digs: Does the AAUP Web page or the Message Board go through the USM Server?

response by Angeline

Date: May 27, 2004
Views: 168

No, in an earlier incarnation it did, but not now