From EagleTalk RE: Thames - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 20, 2005

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: From EagleTalk RE: Thames

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Seeker, at least you come back and defend your positions, even when they're questionable.

As a business person, how do you see the effect on a large institution of having a lame-duck, wounded leader for two more years? Do you think the business community will realise what a bad thing that is? After all, it's more a business concept than an academic one?

Who would you like to see as interim president? "

There is no suitable interim president. It would do no good to place and interim president at this time. Everyone knows the faculty will scream for Lucas, but that's a joke at best. Of course they want Lucas they can control him. They can also basically control anyone else that might be considered outside of Thames inter-circle. Anyone inside of the Thames inter-circle, would be little different than Thames so what's the use. This is the best situation we have, it is happening basically like I have been telling you guys it would for a year now. We are in the best situation we could be in at this point. Lets try to make the best of it.

When the search begins for a new president, I hope that two qualifications are an automatic when the search begins.

1) If you are or have ever been a student, instructor or administrator at USM, you will not be considered.

2) Previous experience in a larger, public University in the southern United States.

We don't need to go back down the road of getting a President with USM ties, and we also don't need to go down the road of bringing in a president who is not familiar with how large public universities work. Dr. Fleming is and has always been a very successful administrator at small Liberal Arts Colleges, but he was not as successful at USM.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LeavingASAP
"
That is an odd opinion to have. I judge people based on their actions. I must be completely out of the loop because all I hear is good things about Noel. His name is in the paper occasionally when he accomplishes another milestone or has a Letter to the Editor. On the other hand, I see SFT's name almost every week, either praising himself or being criticized for another stupid thing or having the IHL commissioner down to correct his mistakes or ... hey, this is getting too long.
Please, Seeker, tell me what actions Dr. Polk performed that gives you these negative opinions. "

Sit through a semester of class with him as your instructor, and those questions will be answered. And, before you all jump up and say it's sour grapes, I made a B under Noel.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"

There is no suitable interim president. It would do no good to place and interim president at this time. Everyone knows the faculty will scream for Lucas, but that's a joke at best. Of course they want Lucas they can control him. They can also basically control anyone else that might be considered outside of Thames inter-circle. Anyone inside of the Thames inter-circle, would be little different than Thames so what's the use. This is the best situation we have, it is happening basically like I have been telling you guys it would for a year now. We are in the best situation we could be in at this point. Lets try to make the best of it.

When the search begins for a new president, I hope that two qualifications are an automatic when the search begins.

1) If you are or have ever been a student, instructor or administrator at USM, you will not be considered.

2) Previous experience in a larger, public University in the southern United States.

We don't need to go back down the road of getting a President with USM ties, and we also don't need to go down the road of bringing in a president who is not familiar with how large public universities work. Dr. Fleming is and has always been a very successful administrator at small Liberal Arts Colleges, but he was not as successful at USM.
"

I think your two criteria are probably good.
The faculty will not "scream" for Dr. Lucas. They are bitterly disappointed in him, but let's not go there now.

Like many outside academia, you don't seem to understand the concept of "shared governance." The faculty neither control nor seek to control the president. How do 400 or 500 people "control" one person? I get very frustrated with people who speak of "the faculty" as if it were one large same-thinking bloc. The level of unanimity you have seen amongst faculty at USM since 2002 is almost unheard of. Academics are a lot like cats -- independent and inquisitive and difficult to manage in groups. To get them to come together as they have should tell you how bad really have been.
The first sign of USM's return to health will be the return of normal faculty discord

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" Sit through a semester of class with him as your instructor, and those questions will be answered. And, before you all jump up and say it's sour grapes, I made a B under Noel."

Well, Seeker, I sure can't sit in a class with him as instructor. Certainly he taught you how to express yourself. Can't you write a few sentences that will give us some idea? After all he could say and do something and all we have is your interpretation of the action. But that will give us something to go on.

On another thread I related how students had negative opinions of my teaching. After some discussion it turned out to be a misunderstanding of what a university education was. They wanted me to give them stuff to memorize to pass test while I was trying to get them to reason and problem solve. They were never asked to do this before and resented me for making them do it, and thought I had a choice.

Date: May 20, 2005

Seeker,

I also think your criteria for selecting a new President for USM are good. No present or former USM insider should be considered for the job. In fact, as Thames' hiring practices have demonstrated, a ban on hiring anyone with a USM degree for any faculty or administrative position would be a good idea. It can be set to expire in a few years.

But you really don't get the way USM faculty now think of Aubrey Lucas. By failing to speak out against Thames, even as Thames, his backers, and his crew took a wrecking ball to everything that Lucas claimed to stand for, Lucas forfeited his moral authority and sorely disappointed a lot of people who had thought highly of him.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 20, 2005

And by not speaking out, Lucas tarnished himself. No one can really blame Thames on that one.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Seeker,

I also think your criteria for selecting a new President for USM are good. No present or former USM insider should be considered for the job. In fact, as Thames' hiring practices have demonstrated, a ban on hiring anyone with a USM degree for any faculty or administrative position would be a good idea. It can be set to expire in a few years.

But you really don't get the way USM faculty now think of Aubrey Lucas. By failing to speak out against Thames, even as Thames, his backers, and his crew took a wrecking ball to everything that Lucas claimed to stand for, Lucas forfeited his moral authority and sorely disappointed a lot of people who had thought highly of him.

Robert Campbell

"

The behavior of Lucas during these terrible times has been the biggest disappointment of all to those of us who have been around for a long time. I'll never understand why he would let this university be trampled while he sat quietly by. This is a man who knows what is right. This is a man that gave the go-ahead to AAUP on campus. This is a man who has known the senior faculty, knows how hard they work, and has been proud of them. This is a man who personally knows of the integrity of embattled faculty.

Date: May 20, 2005

Above post not by the ORIGINSL (and impressive) one.

Date: May 20, 2005

When several MSU grads heard that Polk was going to Starkville, they sent their diplomas back!!

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"When several MSU grads heard that Polk was going to Starkville, they sent their diplomas back!!"

Could you name a few, I will be with Dr Lee this summer and I will inquire

Date: May 20, 2005

That will be an interesting Summer. Have you ever met him? He makes an absolute fool of himself when he opens his mouth.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"That will be an interesting Summer. Have you ever met him? He makes an absolute fool of himself when he opens his mouth."

Yes, I have know Charles....obviously you have NOT. He does not make a fool of himself when he speaks. He is very articulate and has a great sense of humor.

Now before I consider you a fool for you statement of returning MSU diplomas, would you please name a few graduates who returned their diplomas because Noel became a faculty member?

Date: May 20, 2005

No, you are the fool if you believe he is articulate.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"No, you are the fool if you believe he is articulate."

You certainly throw around the "fool" handle freely. Honestly have you ever heard Dr Lee speak in person?

I am still holding out judgment on you and your opinions

Date: May 20, 2005

Yes, at a graduation at MSU when he was interim President. My Sister said she was glad he was only the "interim." It was painful. I felt sorry for hm!

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"Yes, at a graduation at MSU when he was interim President. My Sister said she was glad he was only the "interim." It was painful. I felt sorry for hm!"

Is this true, JoJo? I how can we tell? You lie so much ("When several MSU grads heard that Polk was going to Starkville, they sent their diplomas back!!") we can never believe you.

I started researching all of your post looking for some truth. All I can find is where you admitted you were mad at faculty in some course for not respecting your opinion just because you couldn't back it up with evidence or facts. You were taught all opinions are not equal, but you apparently never learned.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"Yes, at a graduation at MSU when he was interim President. My Sister said she was glad he was only the "interim." It was painful. I felt sorry for hm!"

I was at graduation THIS year and like I said earlier, very articulate and great sense of humor.

The only person I feel sorry for is JoJo.

Date: May 20, 2005

I am surprised an MSU grad can spell articulate!!!

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"I am surprised an MSU grad can spell articulate!!!"

What made you think I am a MSU graduate?? The answer is no

I am still waiting on your reply on those folks who returned their diploma to MSU.

I hope you are not joshing with us, that might indicate you are sincere in your comments or maybe you take some liberties with the truth.

Date: May 20, 2005

Many MSU alunms wish they had SFT instead of Null And Void as President. They told me so and they do not wish to be identified on your web site due the retribution by mean spirited faculty. They do not have tenure in their jobs.

Date: May 20, 2005

Board friends,

Mlle and I both strongly advise you all to cease interacting with this person. It is futile. Mlle specifically instructed me to say "tell them he is yanking the chains, and they should find more interesting things to do." Unlike LVN's friend/foe Seeker, this one is not a worthy opponent.

Kindest regards,
H.A.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" Everyone knows the faculty will scream for Lucas"

Seeker, the faculty turnover at USM has been so great that not very many people know Lucas. And many of us who did know him believe that would be a terrible choice.

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: me
"
Seeker, the faculty turnover at USM has been so great that not very many people know Lucas. And many of us who did know him believe that would be a terrible choice.
"

it may be a good idea to take a look at a little college in jaxon and its president

i would guess francis will be a frontrunner for the usm job...bet it wont be 2 years!!

Date: May 20, 2005

Apropos of nothing in particular, I will say that I have many friends in the local forestry industry. A few are from forestry programs in Louisiana, a few finished at Mississippi community colleges, but the vast majority have degrees from MSU.

Right now, there are a number of issues of concern in their world, not the least of which is the possibility that the existing forestry program at State might be folded into a larger ag program and the number of hours required for a forestry degree reduced. However, in all of the meetings, workshops, etc., where these and other matters have been discussed, I have never -- not once -- heard any one of them say anything at all negative about President Lee. To the contrary, I have heard many of them, and several forest landowners in Forrest and Lamar Counties, speak very highly of Dr. Lee.

There's just no disputing matters of taste, is there?

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: hinds county
"

it may be a good idea to take a look at a little college in jaxon and its president

i would guess francis will be a frontrunner for the usm job...bet it wont be 2 years!!"

It is my sincere hope that noone with a close connection with USM will be considered for President.

USM needs a fresh start, they need a president who has experience working at a large, public, southern University. The last thing they need is someone from a small Liberal Arts school that has ties to USM.

Date: May 20, 2005

I have to agree with Seeker on a few points. Noel was pompous -- no doubt there. I never sat through his class, but had to deal with him on several occasions and it was obvious. He would stab you in the back if need be (scars to prove it) and suck up to those who could do him good. Certainly he is a scholar. That in and of itself does not make someone worthy of support. It took the likes of SFT to make Noel acceptable on a personal level - quite a feat. Certainly he spoke out loudly against SFT and that is good. However, he spoke out loudly I suspect with the knowledge that he was untouchable because he was leaving. Pretty easy to be a hero then. We all dislike SFT, but that does not mean that we should be blind to the faults of our fellow travellers.

Date: May 20, 2005

sought--so true .

Date: May 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Sought
"..... but that does not mean that we should be blind to the faults of our fellow travellers."

Nor does it mean we should spread their perceived faults all over cyberspace for all the world to see.

Date: May 20, 2005

Stone,

OK. But on this board Noel has become nothing but a hero -- because of his stance against SFT. Folks have forgotten that he could also be a very scary person in his own right. Just pointing that out. The enemy of our enemy does not have to be our hero.