quote: Originally posted by: JoJo "The problem is that you have an Accounting PROF making over $100,000 playing golf at noon every day at the Country Club"
And you've got a President making over $200,000 whose wife is chasing him down a university corridor in the afternoon while she's holding the panties of one of his employees that he helped said employee out of in his private bathroom during work hours.
The Doctors and Lawyers only get one day a week off to play golf. USM PROFS get 5 days a week to play golf on State of Mississippi compensation for $100,000.
quote: Originally posted by: JoJo "The Doctors and Lawyers only get one day a week off to play golf. "
A doctor or lawyer in solo practice can take off whenever they please. A doctor or lawyer in group practice can usually arrange whatever schedule they please, except during the evenings and weekends when he must take calls.
quote: Originally posted by: Outside Observer "K-12 school systems in my state pay their 9 month teachers over 12 months...you'd think a state university could handle it."
I don't know how Mississippi does it, but I can tell you how New Mexico does. I work for a public school district, as a 10 month employee. Now our 9 month employees will get the equivalent of 6 paychecks on their last check of the school year. As a 10 month employee, I will receive the sum of 3 paychecks the first payday in June, and one paycheck the last payday of June. That will finish out my contract for the 04/05 school year. In August when I go back to work, I start new, all over again getting my 24 paychecks. So while we are paid for 12 months, we don't exactly get checks for all 12 months. But the last ones are pretty big .
Dr. Tims spends as much time in a golf cart as any accounting prof, and he has his own fleet of pimped out gold golf carts (paid for by MS taxpayers) with headlights, blinkers, etc. He even got one for his good buddy Walt Cain.
AAUP never addresses the truth. You have a PROF playing golf everyday and making $100,000 and all you want to do is attack SFT. How narrow is your mind?
quote: Originally posted by: Bobby Jones "Dr. Tims spends as much time in a golf cart as any accounting prof, and he has his own fleet of pimped out gold golf carts (paid for by MS taxpayers) with headlights, blinkers, etc. He even got one for his good buddy Walt Cain. "
quote: Originally posted by: JoJo "The problem is that you have an Accounting PROF making over $100,000 playing golf at noon every day at the Country Club"
Surprise, profs in COB follow a normal distribution.
If you want to harp on one tail of the distribution, here's the other. An older prof with health problems teaching 9 hours, 3 preps (one of them graduate), a scenic drive to Gulf Park every week to teach, 4 extra trips to Gulf Park for help sessions on their own coin, help sessions for the other two classes in HBG, a couple of committee assignments, and this person is still research active. 50 hours a week is nothing for this person.
The vast majority in the COB fall somewhat in between the golf pro and the person described above. However, the distribution is skewed towards workers. If you don't believe me just look at the publication list maintained by the library or even better the list of escapees being maintained on this board.
You'll have to wait another 2 to 5 years until the PERS handcuffs come off to ascertain the relative merit and market value of the remaining group. We'll see then how many "lazy" faculty there are in COB.
quote: Originally posted by: JoJo "AAUP never addresses the truth. You have a PROF playing golf everyday and making $100,000 and all you want to do is attack SFT. How narrow is your mind?"
JoJo,
The question you should be asking is, "Is the prof in question doing his job?" Faculty are contracted employees not hourly employees. They are contracted to do a job, not punch a clock.
You are implying, without any evidence, that if the faculty member plays golf during the week when hourly employees are working then he is not doing his job. You don't know this (not doing the job) to be true. To most it just seems that way because they are familiar with hourly employemnt.
If he is not doing the job, then his supervisor should be evaluating him accordingly. He will receive no raises. If he gets an overall unsatisfactory for two years then post tenure review kicks in and can lead to termination.
But never forget he can work nights, weekends and holidays or anytime he pleases, except for scheduled classes and committee meeting etc., and still be doing his job.
Please don't blame it on PeopleSoft. It can pay however the University wants to pay. Someone just has to make the decision.
quote: Originally posted by: accountant "salary over 12 months--one word PEOPLESOFT USM staff may not be smart enough to "trick" peoplesoft, but you have to "trick" or write around many many things also you have to want to some things and spreading pay over 12 predates peoplesoft"
JoJo claims that physicians only get one day a week off. That is not entirely true. My physician friends tell me that they often have one or two weekends off each month and at least one work day per week. It really depends on the size of the practice. In larger practices they do get more time off. In addition, they get paid vacation weeks. Although some physicians do not use all of the vacation weeks available to them, they are available. Thus, you may see physicians, lawyers, business women and men, clergy, and faculty members on the golf course on occasion. Papers can be graded at night, course preps can be done at night but one can't play golf at night.
quote: Originally posted by: LeavingASAP " JoJo, The question you should be asking is, "Is the prof in question doing his job?" Faculty are contracted employees not hourly employees. They are contracted to do a job, not punch a clock. You are implying, without any evidence, that if the faculty member plays golf during the week when hourly employees are working then he is not doing his job. You don't know this (not doing the job) to be true. To most it just seems that way because they are familiar with hourly employemnt. If he is not doing the job, then his supervisor should be evaluating him accordingly. He will receive no raises. If he gets an overall unsatisfactory for two years then post tenure review kicks in and can lead to termination. But never forget he can work nights, weekends and holidays or anytime he pleases, except for scheduled classes and committee meeting etc., and still be doing his job.
"
Leaving, This is the way we are going to have to approach the "lazy faculty" thing from here on out. It's a shame we didn't think of it a long time ago. Many people understand the concept of a contract employee. The plumber, the builder, the HVAC guy, the doctor, the CPA, are all contract workers. Faculty are contract workers, as you so rightly point out. You pay them "X" and they do "Y" -- you are buying a skill, not an hour.
Jo et. al. -- I was hired to teach freshman English. I was paid $1250 per course, for the semester. I had to meet two classes, twice a week, and maintain minimal office hours. So, I peeled out of the faculty parking lot by 2:30 in the afternoon. Was I "slacking"? Once I met the minimum required class time, I was on my own. A lot of work still had to get done, but it was up to me to decide when to do it. If I wanted to play golf, take a nap, whatever, and grade papers at midnight, that was my decision.
If you cannot grasp this really simple, basic concept, you are in over your head and should go away.
PERS can create the following distortion. Suppose someone already has their 4 highest years in the system (perhaps a former administrator) and is 3 years or less from retirement. Just suppose that a raise in the next couple of years is as likely as snow in MS in May. Now this person is going to teach their classes, work like hell on committees, and publish a lot. The first job gets done, the other two? Maybe such outliers exist. How many of us would be doing the latter 2 things in this situation?
Now put this person in a portable retirement system. Their behavior might look a bit different. Especially in an academic garden spot like USM. Oh, sorry Lisa, Southern Miss. Oh shoot, Lisa doesn't work here anymore. Hard to keep things straight around here.
As usual I do not agree with you. Here is a simple way to remedy the situation. Tell us who this prof is who plays golf every day at 1. If you can provide us with any proof of your statement then I will believe you. Until then -- troll away into that good night.
Shelby's fascination with this particular golfing prof is a perfect example of his petty vindictiveness. He's had a bug up his....for years about this person. Has used the specific example numerous times; it may even be the foundation of his lazy faculty diatribe. The rumor has been repeated by his cadre of dome sycophants. There's bad blood and it's personal. At one time, I would have suggested other ways that Shelby could be spending his time other than attempting to micromanage and punish individual faculty members. Fund raising, accreditation, leadership...now I just want him out and don't particularly care how or where he goes.
Note that JoJo never responded to or acknowledged Thames' sexual peccadillos during work hours. How interesting. But, a prof playing golf is a capital offense.
You can Lawrence Warren is not on campus all day while his company is making more off MS taxpayers in the last 6 months than any USM accounting prof ever has over an entire career.
You can thank Shelby Thames for making it "Good to Be" (as the E! channel series is titled) Lawrence Warren.
quote: Originally posted by: Pig's Trough "You can Lawrence Warren is not on campus all day while his company is making more off MS taxpayers in the last 6 months than any USM accounting prof ever has over an entire career. You can thank Shelby Thames for making it "Good to Be" (as the E! channel series is titled) Lawrence Warren. "
quote: Originally posted by: Dr. Phil "Note that JoJo never responded to or acknowledged Thames' sexual peccadillos during work hours. How interesting. But, a prof playing golf is a capital offense."
I don't know anything about Dr. Thames, but I know the accounting prof in question. Golf is all he ever talks about in class. I just wish he would find a few mintutes to teach accounting. Dr. Thames ought to get him out of the classroom. If he does that I'll say Dr. Thames is a great leader.
quote: Originally posted by: Accounting Stuent "I don't know anything about Dr. Thames, but I know the accounting prof in question. Golf is all he ever talks about in class. I just wish he would find a few mintutes to teach accounting. Dr. Thames ought to get him out of the classroom. If he does that I'll say Dr. Thames is a great leader."
You are all missing the real point here...Jim is a wurl class golfer. I have money that says our accounting faculty can post a better score than Univ of Chicago's accounting faculty any day.
Golf just happens to be one mans passion, for other faculty it maybe tennis or gardening, etc
quote: Originally posted by: Accounting Stuent "Dr. Thames ought to get him out of the classroom. If he does that I'll say Dr. Thames is a great leader."
Your criteria for leadership must be pitifully low. All that would need to be done is for the president to make a telephone call to the faculty member's department chair who would speak with him about the matter. That hardly meets the criteria for leadership. Or do you suggest that the faculty member's office door be locked and his computer be confiscated?
quote: Originally posted by: Leaders and Arteries "Your criteria for leadership must be pitifully low. All that would need to be done is for the president to make a telephone call to the faculty member's department chair who would speak with him about the matter. That hardly meets the criteria for leadership. Or do you suggest that the faculty member's office door be locked and his computer be confiscated? "
My standards for leadership are pretty low. My standards for teachers are pretty low too. To answer your question, or at least I think it was a question, the department chair knows what's going on and he doesn't care.
quote: Originally posted by: Accounting Student " the department chair knows what's going on and he doesn't care." If there is any validity to your complaint, a gentle word from the dean should raise that chair's "care" index.
quote: Originally posted by: Accounting Student "My standards for leadership are pretty low. My standards for teachers are pretty low too. To answer your question, or at least I think it was a question, the department chair knows what's going on and he doesn't care."
Then your problem isn't with the professor, it's with the chair. As I said above, you can't determine if the professor is doing his job just by looking at when he works. You must look at his evaluation and that is what the chair has to go by. If he is doing his job, the chair can't do anything just because the hours worked are not agreeable to people ignorant as to what is going on.
This arguing from ignorance just gives all a bad image. I suspect the prof is doing an adequate job if SFT is against him, but can't do anything about it.
I must admit that I'm at a disadvantage in this discussion. I'm not used to people who have such strong opinions about things they know nothing about, i.e. people assuming principles valid for hourly employees are valid for contracted employees. Even when this is pointed out they ignore it and continue with their "gut instincts", as if that is the way to find truth.
quote: Originally posted by: Sand Trap "Shelby's fascination with this particular golfing prof is a perfect example of his petty vindictiveness. He's had a bug up his....for years about this person. Has used the specific example numerous times; it may even be the foundation of his lazy faculty diatribe. The rumor has been repeated by his cadre of dome sycophants. There's bad blood and it's personal. At one time, I would have suggested other ways that Shelby could be spending his time other than attempting to micromanage and punish individual faculty members. Fund raising, accreditation, leadership...now I just want him out and don't particularly care how or where he goes. "
I think JoJo is actually Shelby himself. He sure does seem to harp on Shelby's issues. Shelby, get off the message board. You're not being paid to be on the message board!
There is validity. The Director knows how little he does and will do nothing about it. The Dean knows that the Director is not doing his job, like the golf/accounting professor, and he chooses to do nothing. Is it any wonder the Provost and/or President continues to micro-manage the College? My hunch is if the CoB had a dean viewed as competent by the President and the faculty, there would be far less micro-managing, and more communication with and through the dean.
I have had enough of the administrators who are not performing their jobs. I understand that Thames ultimately makes the calls, but that is always true. If, as in this case, a chairman/director knows of a continuing problem and chooses to do nothing, that person should resign. In my opinion, they are stealing their paycheck, at least the administrator part (however large or small that part is). They should resign from the job if they will not perform it. If this faculty member does not teach his or her classes the appropriate subject material, and instead chooses to talk about golf, he too should be removed for not doing his job if he is unwilling to change.