Grimes sucker punches CoB again.... - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 18, 2005

RE: Grimes sucker punches CoB again....

Date: May 18, 2005

Thanks, Old Bizness...that clears it up.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"old business confirms what i heard. the sad part of it is that it reflects a common USM practice. cut deals with a college or within a college instead of trying to solve systemic problems. there is a systemic problem with summer salaries that is not limited to COB. the faculty senate some 10 years brought it up, but it goes ignored. USM solves (or tries to solve) COB's problem by cutting a deal with them not available in other colleges. in my COAL discipline i don't have to leave the state and get a better deal at MSU or UM--those places you get paid 1/9 of your 9-months salary for each summer class you teach--it's capped at 3 courses (1/3 of your 9-month salary). i've heard about departments in Ed & Psych losing candidates to MSU or UM precisely because summer salaries are so low. salaries are low in all colleges not just COB, so why not make such a deal available to all colleges? because it's not the USM way. (and i won't get into that wonderful USM narcotic--"summer school profit"). "

"Summer school profit" - Beautiful. I have searched for the correct term to describe what the administration is doing with those summer school funds. You have nailed it. This is nothing more than skimming off profit that "disappears" into the Domehole.

Again, USM has this bizarro summer school rate which the faculty should definitely attempt to move to a percentage basis (like virtually every other university in the country). Along those same lines, it is impossible (IMPOSSIBLE) to understand why our lauded university is apparently unable to have faculty take their 9-month salary and spread it over 12 months. Somebody explain this to me. How is this not possible to do? Give me some rationale as to why this is impossible. State and Ole Miss have apparently mastered this "difficult problem" for years.

You want a reason to lose faculty - the administration believes that it is always a buyers market, and that there is always some faculty member to be had on the cheap. THAT is why the CoB is going to have to eventually shut down the Finance dept. Long-run, AACSB becomes impossible, through this approach. The administration will just say, "We can't hire anyone", and then let the CoB die a slow death.

If someone has an answer to USM's inability to pay faculty over 12 months, let me know. We can institute, overnight, an online faculty evaluation process, but can't seem to align the planets to pay over 12 months. Sheesh.

Count

Date: May 18, 2005

salary over 12 months--one word PEOPLESOFT

USM staff may not be smart enough to "trick" peoplesoft, but you have to "trick" or write around many many things

also you have to want to some things and spreading pay over 12 predates peoplesoft

Date: May 18, 2005

accountant -

Not blaming you, but I've already heard that excuse - blame everything on PEOPLESOFT. "PEOPLESOFT can't do that", or "We did not program the system that way". It doesn't pass the smell test.

You can't tell me that this is hard. It just isn't. We can dynamically track and update student enrollment, but can't do something like this??

I do agree that there was not a desire to do this when PEOPLESOFT was installed. But do we live in a time capsule? Is it impossible to change?

I realize that I should make arrangements to save for summer (tough to do, at least for me). I have about had it with starting the Fall semester, and having to stress out about what is or is not going to happen during the next summer. Will I get to teach? Will I get a grant? Will I not? It is very difficult to plan.

Still very much counting the days.

Count

Date: May 18, 2005

part of the history on dividing 9-month pay across 12 comes from eons ago. at one point you could. but, some faculty complained that the university was holding and using their money for 9months and they would rather invest / save it themselves. ok--no more dividing it across 12. save it yourself.

Date: May 18, 2005

How many days do you have left?

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Old Bizness
"As the first post seems to indicate, this arrangement is now officially dead. "

Wouldn't bet on that.

Date: May 18, 2005

Dont know about the summer pay situation but just heard that Eisenburg (finance) just accepted an offer from a branch of the SUNJ.

Date: May 18, 2005

If true, good for Larry, Congrats!

"I'm getting closer to my home..."

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Question for Count
"How many days do you have left?"

As a member of the PERS system, I consider myself "PERS-challenged". I am one of the many of those with 15-20 years, that are quasi-forced to wait-it-out. In many ways, my days are numbered but I'm trying to make the best of it.

When the henchbunch is gone, things will certainly be more enjoyable. I'm willing to wait'em out (still counting, though).

Count

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Counting the days
"accountant - Not blaming you, but I've already heard that excuse - blame everything on PEOPLESOFT. "PEOPLESOFT can't do that", or "We did not program the system that way". It doesn't pass the smell test. You can't tell me that this is hard. It just isn't. We can dynamically track and update student enrollment, but can't do something like this?? I do agree that there was not a desire to do this when PEOPLESOFT was installed. But do we live in a time capsule? Is it impossible to change? I realize that I should make arrangements to save for summer (tough to do, at least for me). I have about had it with starting the Fall semester, and having to stress out about what is or is not going to happen during the next summer. Will I get to teach? Will I get a grant? Will I not? It is very difficult to plan. Still very much counting the days. Count "

K-12 school systems in my state pay their 9 month teachers over 12 months...you'd think a state university could handle it.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Counting the days
" As a member of the PERS system, I consider myself "PERS-challenged". I am one of the many of those with 15-20 years, that are quasi-forced to wait-it-out. In many ways, my days are numbered but I'm trying to make the best of it. When the henchbunch is gone, things will certainly be more enjoyable. I'm willing to wait'em out (still counting, though). Count "

Count, a couple of ideas may be pertinent, while you 'tick off the days' on your short-timer's calendar.

First, I ran into one of our 'already retired' colleagues a while back, and s/he mentioned that they had made some kind of arrangement to 'buy their leave balance' up toward retirement. Most of us nine-month faculty have lots of 'unused and never-to-be used' sick leave, I think you can pay to increase this leave balance, which isn't 'cashed out' at retirement. That, or you could suddenly develop that 39-week illness to use up the 'excess' sick leave you have.

Or, you could always leave USM with your PERS balance 'in the bank' and get a new job until you become PERS retirement-eligible (remember that it's either 'age 60 with 4 years' service' or '25 years of service').

Date: May 18, 2005

I have heard several faculty members in CoB say they could make more money in private business industry than they make at USM. Well twiddle dee dee. Many of us in other disciplnes are in that boat. There are those of us in highly marketable fields, but we went into academics for reasons other than monetary. Comparing what one makes at USM with what one could make in the private sector is like comparing apples and oranges. The appropriate comparison would be to compare what one makes at USM with what one could make at a comparable college in a comparable geographical location. Comparing USM's salaries with private industry is absurd. Comparing USM's salaries with those at the Wharton School of Business is equally absurd. I'm not saying that posters on this board are doing that, but I have heard such inappropriate comparisons right here in River City.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Music Man
"I have heard several faculty members in CoB say they could make more money in private business industry than they make at USM. Well twiddle dee dee. Many of us in other disciplnes are in that boat. There are those of us in highly marketable fields, but we went into academics for reasons other than monetary. Comparing what one makes at USM with what one could make in the private sector is like comparing apples and oranges. The appropriate comparison would be to compare what one makes at USM with what one could make at a comparable college in a comparable geographical location. Comparing USM's salaries with private industry is absurd. Comparing USM's salaries with those at the Wharton School of Business is equally absurd. I'm not saying that posters on this board are doing that, but I have heard such inappropriate comparisons right here in River City. "

What one could make in the private sector does play a role in faculty salaries. Almost any one in CoB (or other areas at USM) could make more in private sector. But, as you say, people choose the lower pay of academics for some of the things academics offers. However, if the gap between private sector and academic salaries grows "too large" the academies will lose out to the private sector. So, there would have to be some correlation between the two.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Music Man
"Comparing what one makes at USM with what one could make in the private sector is like comparing apples and oranges."

Nothing wrong with comparing apples to oranges, is there?

The problem with the phrase "that's like comparing apples to oranges" it turns out is not that the fruits are too similar to signify unreconcilable differences. The problem is that it assumes it's not fair to make comparisons without perfect analogs. But isn't it more desirable, in fact, to make comparisons between two different things than to compare something to itself? Using apples and oranges shouldn't end a conversation, it should start a far more profound one about similarities, differences and what can be gleaned from them.

From: Apples and Oranges

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: comparisons
"What one could make in the private sector does play a role in faculty salaries. Almost any one in CoB (or other areas at USM) could make more in private sector. But, as you say, people choose the lower pay of academics for some of the things academics offers. However, if the gap between private sector and academic salaries grows "too large" the academies will lose out to the private sector. So, there would have to be some correlation between the two. "

I never though it was right for academicians to make less than those in the private sector. But if USM raises the salaries of one discipline (e.g., business) solely to compete with the private sector, it should raise the salaries of all disciplines to the private sector level. The increases should not given only to those who scream the loudest.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Squeaky Wheel
"I never though it was right for academicians to make less than those in the private sector. But if USM raises the salaries of one discipline (e.g., business) solely to compete with the private sector, it should raise the salaries of all disciplines to the private sector level. The increases should not given only to those who scream the loudest."

USM is raising CoB's salaries to private sector level? No salaries in CoB at USM = private sector level. I believe you completely misread the post you quoted/refer to.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Squeaky Wheel
"I never though it was right for academicians to make less than those in the private sector. But if USM raises the salaries of one discipline (e.g., business) solely to compete with the private sector, it should raise the salaries of all disciplines to the private sector level. The increases should not given only to those who scream the loudest."

Squeaky Wheel makes a good point. And I'd like to know why your former president didn't give that sweetheart deal regarding the summer teaching schedule to the faculty in other departments whose faculty were equally marketable but whose salaries were not competitive? Maybe having a screaming voice should have been one of the criteria for tje chairs' job.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: who said
"USM is raising CoB's salaries to private sector level? No salaries in CoB at USM = private sector level. I believe you completely misread the post you quoted/refer to."

who said,

I don't recall anybody saying that salaries in CoB are being raised to private sector level. This discussion began earlier on this thread when Music Man said "I have heard several faculty members in CoB say they could make more money in private business industry than they make at USM . . . . I'm not saying that posters on this board are doing that, but I have heard such inappropriate comparisons right here in River City. That was a pretty reasonable statement. Nothing was misquoted.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: who said
"USM is raising CoB's salaries to private sector level? No salaries in CoB at USM = private sector level. I believe you completely misread the post you quoted/refer to."

Look at the word "if"in my statement (that is the second word in the sentence). That one word makes a whole lot of difference in how you interpret the sentence: "But if USM raises the salaries of one discipline (e.g., business) solely to compete with the private sector, it should raise the salaries of all disciplines to the private sector level." I heard that people can get testy about money. I can see now why money issues, as they say, is one of the leading causes of divorce

.

Date: May 18, 2005

The problem is that you have an Accounting PROF making over $100,000 playing golf at noon every day at the Country Club

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"The problem is that you have an Accounting PROF making over $100,000 playing golf at noon every day at the Country Club"

So maybe he prefers to play golf than have lunch. Many faculty members to to the Payne Center during the Noon hour. Or maybe he has a night class and using the Noon hour, and beyond, for Golf is simply compensatory time. An 8:00 to 5:00 PM schedule does not fit a university where many faculty members work evenings and weekends.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"The problem is that you have an Accounting PROF making over $100,000 playing golf at noon every day at the Country Club"

Would you prefer that he play at USM's former golf site?

Date: May 18, 2005

The truth hurts!!! AAUP hates the TRUTH!!!

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Counting the days
" ol Along those same lines, it is impossible (IMPOSSIBLE) to understand why our lauded university is apparently unable to have faculty take their 9-month salary and spread it over 12 months.
Count "

What rational person would want to do this. Its like using your federal withholding as a savings account. You're simply lending the money interest-free.

Date: May 18, 2005

How deep is the sand at the COB!!!!

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: compound interest
" What rational person would want to do this. Its like using your federal withholding as a savings account. You're simply lending the money interest-free. "

Me, for one. It's a good system for faculty on AY appointments with no summer salary. I suppose you could put the difference in a bank savings account, but the amount is so small and the interest rate would e so low that any benefit would be negligible. So why bother.

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"The truth hurts!!! AAUP hates the TRUTH!!!"

I don't hurt anyone! The AAUP LOVES me!

Truth (the REAL truth!)

Date: May 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: JoJo
"The problem is that you have an Accounting PROF making over $100,000 playing golf at noon every day at the Country Club"

Is it better for a doctor or lawyer to make more than $100K and play golf at noon (or any hour) every day????