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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> interesting thread from EagleTalk about enrollment
Post Info TOPIC: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enrollment
fructis

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interesting thread from EagleTalk about enrollment
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(post deleted at the request of EagleTalk.net)

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fructis

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Don't they have it backwards?  Aren't higher out-of-state percentages associated with better universities?  More diversity.  People travelling distances to go somewhere good/well-known.


USM is Tier IV.  What do Tier II out-of-state percentages look like? 


Robert Campbell, what is Clemson's out-of-state percentage?



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mwah

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quote:
Originally posted by: fructis
"Don't they have it backwards?  Aren't higher out-of-state percentages associated with better universities?  More diversity.  People travelling distances to go somewhere good/well-known.
USM is Tier IV.  What do Tier II out-of-state percentages look like? 
Robert Campbell, what is Clemson's out-of-state percentage?"


Generally, true, but some VERY good state schools (Like UNC-Chapel Hill, which I would consider one of the best 5 public universities in the US) have "caps" for the maximum #s of out-of-state students they can accept. I think for UNC in particular that is 10% of the incoming freshman class can be a matriculant from out of state...but I could have that number wrong. I know UCLA and Berkeley have similar limits, a result of their overwhelming popularity no less.

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LVN

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enroll
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I suspect Ole Miss is drawing heavily on Memphis; those students would be out of state. We have no comparable large city to draw on. When I graduated from HS in Memphis, everybody went to Memphis State (now U of M) , UT-Martin, or Ole Miss if they could afford it.

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billabong

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enrollment
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Michigan has 40.1% out of state, and Virginia has 31% out of state.  These are tier I places.  In tier II and closer to USM, Alabama has 25% out of state and Auburn has has 33% out of state.  Clemson has 35% out of state.  These last 3 are all at least 2 tiers above USM.


Source: university homepages


 



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UNC Cap

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quote:
Originally posted by: mwah
" Generally, true, but some VERY good state schools (Like UNC-Chapel Hill, which I would consider one of the best 5 public universities in the US) have "caps" for the maximum #s of out-of-state students they can accept. I think for UNC in particular that is 10% of the incoming freshman class can be a matriculant from out of state...but I could have that number wrong. I know UCLA and Berkeley have similar limits, a result of their overwhelming popularity no less."
The UNC cap is 18% on out of state students.  Without this, they would likely have 30-35% easily I bet.

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LVN

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enroll
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Comments on the meaning of these numbers? The quoted Eagle Talkers seem to think it's a "good thing." It seems to me it may have more to do with geography, shere certain programs are located, the economy, and other such factors. I'm not sure how we can say it's "good" or "not good." It just is.

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LVN

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RE: RE: RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk abou
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"WHERE certain programs are located."
Time to turn off the machine.

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Miles Long

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enrollment
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One reason for the decline of out-of-state enrollment is the elimination of out-of-state tuition waivers for members of the Pride. This made for a larger, better marching band.

Now, students that might have gone to USM are staying home and going to UWF, USA, ULL, UNO, and other schools that have the advantage of cheaper tuition.

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Miles Long

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Oh, and so much for "University of the Mid South".

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ram

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RE: RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about en
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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"I suspect Ole Miss is drawing heavily on Memphis; those students would be out of state. We have no comparable large city to draw on. When I graduated from HS in Memphis, everybody went to Memphis State (now U of M) , UT-Martin, or Ole Miss if they could afford it. "


We recently visited UM with a couple of prospective students. During the orientation tour, we learned that Ole Miss has more applicants from a particular high school in Dallas than from any high school in Mississippi. The recruiter's point was that UM is so attractive that significant numbers of folks from quite some distance go to some trouble to attend.

I tend to agree with you; it is hard to read too much into these statistics. My guess is that the boys at ET are equal opportunity optimists. Had the in-state numbers gone down, they would be talking about what a good thing it is that out-of-state percentages are up.

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stinky cheese man

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enrollment
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USM also used to get more students from Louisiana, particularly New Orleans, but the state of Louisiana has set up a scholarship program (much like the Hope program in Georgia) designed to keep residents of Louisiana in college there. 

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freak

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My bet is that USM's outofstate percent is moving toward below 10% now, and will settle in somewhere just underneath that mark.  With the unspoken open admission policy, the phenomena leading to the increase (decrease) in part-(full-)time students, and some of the neighborhood state things scm mentions, my guess is that USM's typical future "customer" is someone from the Pine Belt who, for whatever reason, is "stuck" in Pine Belt.

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Cupcake

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enroll
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Music is heavily dependent on out of state students. There just aren't enough good student musicians in the state to have a good orchestra and concert band. But music has to "buy" them. Almost all have out of state fee waivers and most are on substantial scholarships. The lure of the university is not great enough here where it is at Texas-Austin, LSU, etc. This is sort of true for theater as well.

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Louis Pullo admirer

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quote:
Originally posted by: Cupcake
"Music is heavily dependent on out of state students. There just aren't enough good student musicians in the state to have a good orchestra and concert band."
If what you say is correct, that means that Mississippi's public school music programs are not what they used to be. The larger of the state's high schools produced very talented musicians and those high schools served as "feeder" schools for colleges and universities.

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Cows and Horses

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RE: RE: RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about en
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quote:
Originally posted by: ram
" We recently visited UM with a couple of prospective students. During the orientation tour, we learned that Ole Miss has more applicants from a particular high school in Dallas than from any high school in Mississippi. The recruiter's point was that UM is so attractive that significant numbers of folks from quite some distance go to some trouble to attend. I tend to agree with you; it is hard to read too much into these statistics. My guess is that the boys at ET are equal opportunity optimists. Had the in-state numbers gone down, they would be talking about what a good thing it is that out-of-state percentages are up. "

As crazy as this sounds, a real attraction to the Dallas students is the Ole Miss greek system.


Many "well to do" Dallas students aren't wealthy or socially connected to pledge the fraternity/sorority of their choice at UTA, SMU, etc.  With an extremely strong greek system such as OM, they pledge their choice sorority/fraternity and then transfer to another school and take their greek affililation with them.


I understand to pledge a certain sorority at SMU it cost $8-10,000 at OM it is $3-4,000 (in addition to the competition to pledge at SMU much tighter).


I realize this does not account for all of the Dallas students, but this is one angle.  I know a family from the Dallas area who has a daughter coming to OM this fall with precisely this plan in mind.  One of my daughters at Ole Miss explained this to me a couple of years ago.



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Robert Campbell

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enroll
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Clemson's out of state percentage has been between 30 and 35% over the past 20 years.

In some states, universities are still subject to punishment by the legislature if they enroll out of state students. I'll bet that's where the 18% cap on enrollment at UNC-Chapel Hill comes from. The NC legislature is spending more on universities than a lot of other legislature are; it's one of the trade-offs.

There was a period in the mid to late 1990s when Clemson would have had its "performance funding" reduced if it enrolled too many out-of-state students. With the drop in state appropriations as a percentage of revenue, performance funding is a dead letter and CU is working hard to draw more students from out of state. However, tuition has risen sharply here, deterring some out-of-state students, while because of beefed-up scholarship programs for in-state students, Clemson is more attractive to the top high school grads in South Carolina than it used to be.

Since USM is not subject to legislative punishment for bringing in more students from out of state, I suspect the high in-state percentage is another sign that USM is uncompetitive. I would guess that most of the top HS grads in Mississippi aren't choosing USM either.

Robert Campbell

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stinky cheese man

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i suspect one reason that USM gets a greater number of in-state students is the fact that we have a high percentage (relative to UM and MSU) of first generation college students. in fact, at graduation Virginia Shanteau-Newton commented on that fact to some people. these students and their families don't have the resources to go out of state and probably don't have the resources to travel that far in-state. plus, we get a lot of JC transfers, those will in all likelihood be in-state students. another reason is USM's location--USM isn't located as close to other states as UM or MSU are. (UM has the Memphis area up the road and their enrollment from TN reflects that.)

as to top HS grads (not sure how you define that) i suspect the really good ones don't consider any in-state university (except maybe Millsaps). i think USM, given its resources relative to UM and MSU, gets its fair share.

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"I get along without you very well"

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RE: RE: RE: RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about en
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quote:
Originally posted by: Cows and Horses
" As crazy as this sounds, a real attraction to the Dallas students is the Ole Miss greek system. Many "well to do" Dallas students aren't wealthy or socially connected to pledge the fraternity/sorority of their choice at UTA, SMU, etc.  With an extremely strong greek system such as OM, they pledge their choice sorority/fraternity and then transfer to another school and take their greek affililation with them. I understand to pledge a certain sorority at SMU it cost $8-10,000 at OM it is $3-4,000 (in addition to the competition to pledge at SMU much tighter). I realize this does not account for all of the Dallas students, but this is one angle.  I know a family from the Dallas area who has a daughter coming to OM this fall with precisely this plan in mind.  One of my daughters at Ole Miss explained this to me a couple of years ago."
A student who chooses a university because of the Greek system is choosing a school for the wrong reason. I can't imagine how would a high school student even know about social fraternities or sororities. My guess is that in many cases it is due to the influence of overly ambititious parents. Thank heavens my college did not have the Greek system. They didn't need it.

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stinky cheese man

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RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enroll
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i can't speak for schools other than HHS but they know all about fraternities and sororities by the time they are sophomores in hs. sometimes from parents, often from friends who have brothers or sisters in the greek system. there are even clubs in hattiesburg that act as mini-fraternities and sororities. you pledge, etc.

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Seeker

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One thing is for sure, a student will never pick Southern Miss for it's Greek System. Dr. Fleming almost succeeded in killing it off...it's still suffereing the effects.

But, I sure don't expect to get any pity from anyone here.

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"I get along without you very well"

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
" they know all about fraternities and sororities by the time they are sophomores in hs. sometimes from parents, often from friends who have brothers or sisters in the greek system."
SCM, that's what I was suggesting. Social pressure.

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stinky cheese man

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no doubt it's social pressure. but hs students do weigh the greek system at a university very heavily in their choice making process. as you said, probably too heavily. we've often gotten students at USM who transferred from another university because they didn't get in the fraternity or sorority of their choice. some have said UM can be a very lonely place if you're not in the greek system--don't know if that's true.

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"I get along without you very well"

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"One thing is for sure, a student will never pick Southern Miss for it's Greek System. Dr. Fleming almost succeeded in killing it off...it's still suffereing the effects. But, I sure don't expect to get any pity from anyone here."
Seeker, I've seen 18 and 19 year old women break down in tears because they didn't get in some sorority. Any organization that selects its members on the basis of what they wear, how much money their parents make, or other such socioeconomic factors should not exist on a college campus.

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Incoming Frosh

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quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"no doubt it's social pressure. but hs students do weigh the greek system at a university very heavily in their choice making process. as you said, probably too heavily. we've often gotten students at USM who transferred from another university because they didn't get in the fraternity or sorority of their choice. some have said UM can be a very lonely place if you're not in the greek system--don't know if that's true."
How is USM for students are not in the Greek system?

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Incoming Frosh

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quote:
Originally posted by: Incoming Frosh
"How is USM for students are not in the Greek system?"
who are not

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ree

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certainly not lonely.

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Incoming Frosh

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quote:
Originally posted by: ree
"certainly not lonely."

response to my question?


If so, thanks.



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Seeker

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RE: RE: RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk abou
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quote:
Originally posted by: "I get along without you very well"
"Seeker, I've seen 18 and 19 year old women break down in tears because they didn't get in some sorority. Any organization that selects its members on the basis of what they wear, how much money their parents make, or other such socioeconomic factors should not exist on a college campus. "


Get over yourself. You can dislike Greek organizations all you want, they will remain a part of college life long and you and I are both gone. My point is if you are going to have one, encourge growth. The IFC did a study on University giving, across the board, and the number of donars to the Univeristy as a whole was a vast majority Greek. I don't know if the study is still around or not, but it was quite talked about around 98-99.

One big benefit that a stronger Greek system could have at USM is to combat the suitcase college attitude. More individuals involved in campus activities the fewer that will run home to momma every single weekend. Having more students on campus during the weekend benefits all aspects of USM, more campus events, musical events, theatre products, athletic events will all be better attended if more students are on campus on the weekends.

This has been one of USM's biggest issues since the 1960's is that students leave campus every weekend. We must give our students a reason to stay in H'burg on the weekends.


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Animal House

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RE: RE: RE: interesting thread from EagleTalk about enroll
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quote:
Originally posted by: Incoming Frosh
"How is USM for students are not in the Greek system?"
I never saw the Greek system playing a very important role at USM in general. But maybe they are useful in some way for students who are unable or unwilling to assimilate into the main stream of campus life.

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