Shape up or ship out - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 12, 2005

RE: Shape up or ship out

Date: May 12, 2005

Stephen - You are right on target. Wonderful insight. And yet, no one in the chain of command at USM will accept your viewpoint. They have, literally, a completely different paradigm they operate from. Because of that, and the fact that they are in power, will mean that they are "right", no matter what evidence is brought to the discussion. It is irrational, and a tad bizarre.

They are (in their minds) "cutting edge", but in reality they don't see that other Universities are being "innovative" and following a "business approach", but it is built around incredible investment in ACADEMIC programs that make their students competitive in their chosen major, no matter what the student's major is. These real "world class" institutions understand that, if we want to have the best (fill in the blank) major, our "business model" should do the following - either buy top faculty, aggressive invest in program offerings, whatever it takes to excel in that academic discipline such that their graduates are competitive. That should be our "business" as well.

The Thames model is to pretend that "innovative" is innovative delivery which translates into savings (lower costs to staff and deliver the educational "product") and yet forget that this is in reality a profit maximizing strategy, with no attempt to re-invest the "savings" into academics. It is just designed to consolidate money and power in the Dome. As a result, they are cutting their own throats. It is truly a downward spiral, as emphasis is placed more and more on "innovative" delivery of product at a cheap price. A USM education becomes a "commodity", bought and sold like pork bellies. USM becomes the Walmart of college education - a volume business. Yet they don't see that they cheapen the whole university in the process, and their competitors change from State and Ole Miss to Antonelli College and Phoenix.

I'm amazed how the faculty at USM have to "prove their point" on what is obvious to any other University administration in the country. I've just returned from a conference - people are stunned at the decision-making here. They ask, "How is that going to work?" and "How do you get put on SACS probation?"

I'm tired of the ignorance. I'm literally embarrassed when I here "world class". If SFT is re-appointed, it will demonstrate to me that the problem is not SFT at all, but a commitment by the IHL to diminish this school completely. We on this board are talking to ourselves - nobody who understands the big picture is listening. If they were, they would see SFT for what he is. An enormous, out of touch, failure as a decision-maker.

Make no mistake - I will not wallow in this hole, if he is re-appointed.

End of rant - Count

Date: May 12, 2005

Count, I'm afraid you won't be the only one making such a decision. In fact, I fully expect you will see faculty begin "working to contract" if SFT is not shown the door rather quickly. Those calling for a day's work for a day's pay will not be happy when that's what they start getting. Show up at eight, leave at five, take an hour for lunch. Use your office and home time to write like hell, and leave. Harsh, but necessary. My heart goes out to the twenty-two year people.

Stephen Judd, another of your brilliant analyses. Thank you as always. Don't work too hard.

Date: May 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: A friend indeed
"Those calling for a day's work for a day's pay will not be happy when that's what they start getting. Show up at eight, leave at five, take an hour for lunch."

Excellent, excellent point. Anyone who thinks that an academic works a 40-hour-week is an idot (to use the technical expression).

Date: May 13, 2005

When I got out of high school , then went to college, I worked at a factory at nights to pay my way through. My non-college buddies would work eight hours, then relax.

When I went to graduate school, I had a standard 12-hour day followed by whatever studies I had to do.

My doctoral research required two four hour shifts 12 hours apart. I worked all but the 6 hours of sleep I needed.

I still have the same work ethic now. By now, that is just who we are.

One of my old buddies, when he found out that I was a prof, told me, "I went to the school of hard knocks." I told him, "I worked twice as many hours per day as you did for over a decade - THAT is hard knocks."

Date: May 13, 2005

While I think that a good bit of what "Plant Manager" said deserves to be considered seriously, I also think that Plant Manager might not have his/her finger squarely on the pulse of every professor & every Bubba Six-Pack running around the backroads of Mississippi...

Admittedly, my background involves field biology & environmental science. And those disciplines cut very close to Bubba Six-Pack's favorite things, huntin' and fishin'. Going back 25-30 years, I can remember some of my profs being revered by the bubbas at country stores. Why? Because "Perfesser" knew where the big fish were in the river, "Perfesser" knew everything there was to know about white-tail deer & "Perfesser" would hop into a creek and grab a cottonmouth in a New York second. (On the flip, "Perfesser" knew that Bubba was often a valuable source of information.) I just mention this, because the "average Mississippian" probably does relate very well to the type of research that professors like Dave Beckett do for a living. GCRL is another great example. Folks on the Coast know that GCRL contributes to the seafood industry, sport fishing & quality of life.

Paint, too. Yeah. Bubba can understand paint.

Helping the public understand the value of all the other research that goes on at a university is tougher. And as a poster up-thread pointed out, that happens to be one of the main jobs that a good university president focuses a lot of his/her energies on accomplishing. Just my

but SFT & his minions spend an awful lot of time promoting research activities that are "easy sells" & not enough time explaining the "harder sells."

I don't want an alma mater that's "world class." All I want is an alma mater that has class.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"Helping the public understand the value of all the other research that goes on at a university is tougher. And as a poster up-thread pointed out, that happens to be one of the main jobs that a good university president focuses a lot of his/her energies on accomplishing. Just my but SFT & his minions spend an awful lot of time promoting research activities that are "easy sells" & not enough time explaining the "harder sells." "

Excellent points here; thanks!

Date: May 13, 2005

"(Oh, History profs do save lives, usually by the thousands, when wise leaders decide not to go to war because they understand History.) "

You guys are hilarious! Are you sure you're not a comedy writer? That's the funniest thing I've heard lately! Keep 'em coming!

Date: May 13, 2005

Another imbecile! Are there great flocks of you out tonight?

The greatest leaders have always been the greatest scholars of histoire. Our beloved Winston Churchill, your Patton, your Robert E. Lee. Your president Reagan, who only pretended to be napping but knew that great evil must always be confronted. History taught them that resistance is never futile.

Every great person was taught. You were taught.

Oh the dear Sisters who taught me. They would have expelled such ignorant, such unthinking ones.

I am much too overwrought. I said I was going out in the Vette and so I shall, and then home to a nice glass of champagne and a bite of brie to settle the self.

Date: May 13, 2005

Monique de Guerre is right. Plant Manager is wrong. History might even provide some lessons to be learned by USM:

New LSU Press Book Examines France on the Eve of World War II
http://APPL003.lsu.edu/UNV002.nsf/PressReleases/PR3262?OpenDocument

Date: May 13, 2005

To Plant Manager:

Those who can, learn. Those like you who can't, are and remain ignorant. Keep posting, though. Mental midgets like you are a great source of amusement. You do not deserve rational discourse because you wouldn't know what to do with it. Instead you should receive tit for tat. I'm sure one of those two words got your attention. Too bad you don't understand it.

Date: May 13, 2005

youre dumb

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Tired of this crap
"To Plant Manager: Those who can, learn. Those like you who can't, are and remain ignorant. Keep posting, though. Mental midgets like you are a great source of amusement. You do not deserve rational discourse because you wouldn't know what to do with it. Instead you should receive tit for tat. I'm sure one of those two words got your attention. Too bad you don't understand it. "

youre dumb too, keep it up and you'll have even those who think youre smart against you.

Date: May 13, 2005

This sounds like an argument on eagle talk.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Plant Manager
""(Oh, History profs do save lives, usually by the thousands, when wise leaders decide not to go to war because they understand History.) " You guys are hilarious! Are you sure you're not a comedy writer? That's the funniest thing I've heard lately! Keep 'em coming! "

I note, Plant Manager, that although you laughed, you failed to rebut what I said. Do you really think our leader "make it up" as they go and not use their knowledge of history? Do you manage a plant the way it was done in 1880? SFT may still use that style, but modern manages have learned from History what works best and change accordingly. I can’t believe you never heard “that those who don’t know history are condemned to repeat it”. (Or something like that.) I can’t believe you don’t see how lives are destroyed by stupid errors made by leaders ignorant of History.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: phantom
"This sounds like an argument on eagle talk."

name calling sure does, too bad it started with "imbecile"

Date: May 13, 2005

Plant Manager,

Military History plays an essential role in officer training programs. Have you not heard generals and other military leaders refer to historical events in their decision making strategies? LVN said history saves lives. Believe her.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Shell Shocked
"Plant Manager, Military History plays an essential role in officer training programs. Have you not heard generals and other military leaders refer to historical events in their decision making strategies? LVN said history saves lives. Believe her."

that isn't what he is laughing at. he's laughing at your over-inflated sense of self-worth.

Date: May 13, 2005

Plant Manager: What kind of plant do you manage? The graveyard shift for tomb stone makers.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: he who laughs last . . .
"that isn't what he is laughing at. he's laughing at your over-inflated sense of self-worth."

It seems clear that you are not up to the challenge of engaging in a debate on this board. I suggest that you sit back, observe, enjoy, and learn.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: War is Hell
"It seems clear that you are not up to the challenge of engaging in a debate on this board. I suggest that you sit back, observe, enjoy, and learn."

i've tried that route - got no where. the vast majority who post on this board arent interested in debating, and have clearly stated so. that's fine, thats not what this board is for.

Now Im just here for the fun. But, I must say, I believe there is much to be learned by the "good guys" too. There I go again, starting a debate that will end in stubborness.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Shell Shocked
"Plant Manager,
Military History plays an essential role in officer training programs. Have you not heard generals and other military leaders refer to historical events in their decision making strategies? LVN said history saves lives. Believe her."

Sorry, that wasn't me. Not that I disagree.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: he who laughs last . . .
"that isn't what he is laughing at. he's laughing at your over-inflated sense of self-worth."

What "over-inflated sense of self worth"? Where do you get ideas like this? I guess if you spend all day with losers this discussion of fact sounds that way to you. Faculty deal with the "cream of the crop" of our youth. They will be making decisions someday that will affect all of us in one way or another. Some may drop out to sell dope-- that affects me and my pocket book. Some may become excellent plant managers whose efficiently prevents a company from outsourcing to another country-- that affects me.

It isn't "over inflation" to realize these "connections". It is ignorance that thinks, "things just happen". "I can be a lazy bum and not affect the rest of society."

Date: May 13, 2005

Also, I believe Mlle. de Guerre was using the French word "imbecile" and not the English word "imbecile" -- there is a difference. In French it's a term of exasperation, I think, rather than an insulting reference to a person's intelligence. But I could be wrong.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: tried
"I must say, I believe there is much to be learned by the "good guys" too."

I totally agree with you. Profiting from past experience is importance. That is why the "good guys" will win the war. They have lost some battles along the way, and they may lost a few more, but in the long run the war itself belongs to the "good guys."

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LeavingASAP
" What "over-inflated sense of self worth"? Where do you get ideas like this? I guess if you spend all day with losers this discussion of fact sounds that way to you. Faculty deal with the "cream of the crop" of our youth. They will be making decisions someday that will affect all of us in one way or another. Some may drop out to sell dope-- that affects me and my pocket book. Some may become excellent plant managers whose efficiently prevents a company from outsourcing to another country-- that affects me. It isn't "over inflation" to realize these "connections". It is ignorance that thinks, "things just happen". "I can be a lazy bum and not affect the rest of society." "

First, stop talking down to everyone - your no more important that others in the web of humanity. Secondly, who do you think you're talking to? I know who (what) you are; yet you have no idea who (what) I am. I'm a prof too.

Geez -'things just happen' Well, duh. You should hear yourself.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
" Sorry, that wasn't me. Not that I disagree. "

Sorry, it just sounded like something you would say. I should have checked it out before posting. I can't recall who did say it.

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: War is Hell
"I totally agree with you. Profiting from past experience is importance. That is why the "good guys" will win the war. They have lost some battles along the way, and they may lost a few more, but in the long run the war itself belongs to the "good guys.""

of course the "good guys" always win. it's self-instituted prophecy.

Date: May 13, 2005

The phrase is "self-fulfilling prophecy."

Date: May 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: English teacher's friend
"The phrase is "self-fulfilling prophecy.""

hey!, there you go - thanks for the hand! Like when you forget how to spell 'the' - dumb me.