mushroom cloud over Greene Hall - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 7, 2005

RE: mushroom cloud over Greene Hall

Date: May 7, 2005

Doty sent an email stating that some scores were still being tinkered with. I guess that was the veiled invitation "to come chat." I haven't heard of scores being changed. I have heard a lawyer was retained.

Date: May 7, 2005

It is nice to know that some inside the college receive emails timely while others, myself included, did not receive the email. Oh well our email system isn't noted for delivering email to everyone on a list. Another example of what budget decisions will do to a college.

How can evaluatins be "tinkered with?" I do remember we were assured that the faculty handbook would be followed and no exceptions made when Doty arrived on campus. Guess another email wasn't delivered to indicate that we still have exceptions to the exceptions.

Date: May 7, 2005

Despite the impression of some outside the COB of the college as a nest of back-biting hot dogs, the day-to-day reality is different. The vast majority of the faculty is what's left of the group hired from 85-95, now mixed with what are for the most part good "kids". The classes are getting taught, some research is happening, and the paperwork is limping along. Despite all the short-run bs at all levels of administration, the college is still functioning on the inertia of the glory days of the late 80s to late 90s. There's still enough left of that college to perhaps get us through another AACSB. Without the friendships and trust developed during those years the place would have long since cratered. In how many colleges do you routinely see people apologizing to one another after an argument over something? The shared hardships of the last three years and the diminished ranks of faculty has made a quiet and civil place even more so. The people will soldier on through this current flap, just as in the past. Many of us have seen or heard of worse. We can live with the current crop of administrators. All of us can easily imagine a worse crew.

At least many of us still have our memories. A lot of people never get to work even one year in a good place. A good friend of mine who now makes twice what they made at USM still remembers how good those years were and realizes he/she probably will never be in that situation again.

Best of luck to us all. We need it.

Date: May 8, 2005

I agree that some good people are left, and they are trying to do the best they can under the circumstances. I disagree that there is enough for re-accreditation. Eight years of near zero cannot be molded into a passable product for AACSB.

If you think about it, re-accreditatiion now, under all the circumstances that exist, would be the worst possible thing for the CoB. The CoB would receive no money to grow, no more faculty lines, no new dean and chairmen, and would continue to be abused from across campus. Sometimes you have to hit bottom to be able to push off to get back up.

Date: May 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: More than a touch of gray
"I agree that some good people are left, and they are trying to do the best they can under the circumstances. I disagree that there is enough for re-accreditation. Eight years of near zero cannot be molded into a passable product for AACSB. If you think about it, re-accreditatiion now, under all the circumstances that exist, would be the worst possible thing for the CoB. The CoB would receive no money to grow, no more faculty lines, no new dean and chairmen, and would continue to be abused from across campus. Sometimes you have to hit bottom to be able to push off to get back up."

No argument from me on this. The "perhaps" in my earlier post may contain more than a trace of wishful thinking. Given the morale, quality of leadership, and the scarcity of resources (people and otherwise) it is surprising there is as much happening on AACSB as there is. Both the young and the old are looking for the fire exits. Without PERS, mushroom cloud would be an understatement.

The mention of the benefits of probation was in very poor taste. One can think this, talk quietly about a coming bonanza among friends, etc. However, putting this on a public message board? Shame on you. Just kidding,

Date: May 8, 2005

"Without PERS, mushroom cloud would be an understatement."

There may be the truest words ever put on this, or any other, board.

Date: May 8, 2005

thanks, but it may get truer. The slow demise of PERS may have major implications for higher ed in MS. As the last of the indentured servants get to 25 years, one of 2 things has to happen. Either the $ are going to have to get better or the turnover will climb. My money is on the latter. The drain is already adversely impacting the system but it is slow so few are paying any attention. The CCs are getting worse as people migrate to FL or TX. The lower 5 are deteriorating, just ask anyone at Delta State. MU and MSU are slowly losing some of their best facutlty and they won't be cheaply replaced in a new system where you can't pay less money now for more money later. USM may be a lost cause. What will happen to MU and MSU sans PERS? Without more money the former can drift along as a haven for upper class wannabes without the grades, ACTs, or money for Vandy, Tulane, or Washington & Lee. Their customers just want the cachet of upper-crust SEC and academic quality is a distant consideration. MSU may be a tougher issue as getting good faculty to go to Starkville and stay there for peanuts doesn't seem viable. As the better students flee the MS system, MSU staying at Tier III could get tougher. Maybe they can hang on attracting students that didn't make the cut at Auburn, Clemson, or Texas kids that didn't make it into K-State.

Not to worry though. I'm sure the Mensa types at IHL have a strategic plan for dealing with this.

Date: May 9, 2005

Not to worry though. I'm sure the Mensa types at IHL have a strategic plan for dealing with this.

Very true; I am sure it is far too complex for us to ever begin to understand it. Luckily there is much faith and trust so there are no worries.

Date: May 9, 2005

IHL has a strategic plan for COB? Won't that add to the confusion between the current campus level stategic plan and the COB plan? As it stands right now the campus level strategy is to follow the Univ. of Phoenix model and be low quality/high profit (thus the rapid decrease in faculty size), while the dean's strategic plan includes being ranked in the top 100 business schools. Given those extremes, I find it hard to imagine the IHL could add any more confusion to the mix.

If anything, they might even clarify the appropriate objective (which probably lies somewhere in between the above extremes)

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: old and tired
"thanks, but it may get truer. The slow demise of PERS may have major implications for higher ed in MS. As the last of the indentured servants get to 25 years, one of 2 things has to happen. Either the $ are going to have to get better or the turnover will climb. My money is on the latter. The drain is already adversely impacting the system but it is slow so few are paying any attention. The CCs are getting worse as people migrate to FL or TX. The lower 5 are deteriorating, just ask anyone at Delta State. MU and MSU are slowly losing some of their best facutlty and they won't be cheaply replaced in a new system where you can't pay less money now for more money later. USM may be a lost cause. What will happen to MU and MSU sans PERS? Without more money the former can drift along as a haven for upper class wannabes without the grades, ACTs, or money for Vandy, Tulane, or Washington & Lee. Their customers just want the cachet of upper-crust SEC and academic quality is a distant consideration. MSU may be a tougher issue as getting good faculty to go to Starkville and stay there for peanuts doesn't seem viable. As the better students flee the MS system, MSU staying at Tier III could get tougher. Maybe they can hang on attracting students that didn't make the cut at Auburn, Clemson, or Texas kids that didn't make it into K-State.
Not to worry though. I'm sure the Mensa types at IHL have a strategic plan for dealing with this."

THESE ARE VERY SCARY WORDS!

Date: May 9, 2005

You're just now getting scared??

Date: May 9, 2005

Been scared about the future of the unviersity but not about PERS.

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Young and tired
"Been scared about the future of the unviersity but not about PERS."

Quite honestly, the existence of PERS is one of the reasons why there are still ANY professors with tenure at USM. If the university was part of TIAA-CREF, there would be fewer tenured Associate professors, because that is the group that is "stuck" here by economics. The non-tenured assistant professors had mobility and left already. Full professors with large external funding and publication records have the ability to leave for better universities, and those "hanging on" in hopes of improvement have begun to vacate the campus this past year.

What that has left is individuals with more than seven years service (associate profs with tenure), but with less than 25 years (retirement eligible). That is the group with "lessened mobility" and whose mobility is further limited by the potential of leaving PERS and "starting over again" in TIAA-CREF or any other pension/retirement program.

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: oldtimer
"
Quite honestly, the existence of PERS is one of the reasons why there are still ANY professors with tenure at USM. If the university was part of TIAA-CREF, there would be fewer tenured Associate professors, because that is the group that is "stuck" here by economics. The non-tenured assistant professors had mobility and left already. Full professors with large external funding and publication records have the ability to leave for better universities, and those "hanging on" in hopes of improvement have begun to vacate the campus this past year.
What that has left is individuals with more than seven years service (associate profs with tenure), but with less than 25 years (retirement eligible). That is the group with "lessened mobility" and whose mobility is further limited by the potential of leaving PERS and "starting over again" in TIAA-CREF or any other pension/retirement program."

Having TIAA-CREF is what made it possible for me to leave USM. For those in the field just starting out and making choices about retirement plans, take note. You can get TIAA-CREF at USM now (at least you could last year).

Date: May 9, 2005

PERS is one of the strongest public retirement systems in the nation. Don't sell it short if you haven't tried it. You vest in four years.

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: PERSonality
"PERS is one of the strongest public retirement systems in the nation. Don't sell it short if you haven't tried it. You vest in four years. "

Just four years? Sounds easy.

Then again, Shelby's been in office for just three years...

Shelby's campaigning for another four years, which could make make five.

Sorry, sounds like a lifetime to me.

Date: May 9, 2005

Bank on it! There is already talk about how funding levels won't be kept up. Who would start at a public univeristy in MS and think they will stay 25 years. Crazy is all I can say.

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Eternity
"Just four years? Sounds easy . . . . Sorry, sounds like a lifetime to me."

Depends on whether you're in heaven or hell.

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: PERS will run out of money
"Bank on it! There is already talk about how funding levels won't be kept up. Who would start at a public univeristy in MS and think they will stay 25 years. Crazy is all I can say."

PERS invests their funds just like TIAA/CREF invests their funds. Both groups use professional advisors. As a former colleague of mine once said, "I don't think either of them invest in catfish futures."

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Money under the matress
"PERS invests their funds just like TIAA/CREF invests their funds. Both groups use professional advisors. As a former colleague of mine once said, "I don't think either of them invest in catfish futures." "

I don't think many faculty members are aware that the "13th" check from PERS gets larger and larger with each passing year.

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lucky 13
"I don't think many faculty members are aware that the "13th" check from PERS gets larger and larger with each passing year. "

I understand that the thirteenth check begins in the second year of retirement and that the magnitude of the annual increases depends on their investment success. If PERS were really in financial trouble (and my impression is that it is not), I imagine they would stop the annual increases or cut out the thirteenth check entirely. That would be the canary in the coal mine for me if it ever happened.

Date: May 9, 2005

I left my money in PERS when I left, hoping that someday I'll be able to come back. Also have a small TIAA-CREF from LSU, it's doing about the same as everything else, including my Roth and other investments. As a staffer, I won't have the choice if I come back, but I'm not worried about PERS. But then, I'm old.

Good explanation on why so many faculty are stuck. Factor in that this is also the group with working spouses and kids in high school, and that's why we have a faculty at all.

Date: May 9, 2005

off topic from PERS, but under the mushroom cloud...

What is the current status on AACSB? When is USM due for re-evaluation, and how would the loss of the accreditation affect current CoB students?

Thanks,

-finance major

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Money under the matress
"PERS invests their funds just like TIAA/CREF invests their funds. Both groups use professional advisors. As a former colleague of mine once said, "I don't think either of them invest in catfish futures." "

Sounds good, except TIAA-CREF is "portable" so you can leave USM and continue to build your retirement fund. PERS is strictly a state of Mississippi fund, and what's the odds you can leave the "Hub City" but still remain a state employee?

The PERS "golden-toned brass handcuffs" mean that Associate Professors (7-24 years USM service) are either stuck in place, or like LVN, leaving USM means facing the prospect of leaving "vested funds" in a system until you turn 60 and can "officially retire," while putting funds into TIAA-CREF (or any other retirement fund) at a "new" (post-Nitchampburg) university.

Date: May 9, 2005

Getting back to the mushroom cloud, Doty has been spending considerable time lately "outdoor celling." I have seen him from my office in COAL. Anyone know what's going on there?

Date: May 9, 2005

Doty's celling on the sidewalk hopefully is a sign that he still has a chance to leave.

Different JGH area. Has it ever been decided who will replace Alvin Williams as chair?

Date: May 9, 2005

Did Doty ever get his paper accepted in Babin's journal? I think the acceptance was being strung out in quid pro quo fashion. I hear the college counts that journal as an A. Now you're saying that Babin is about to be made chair of marketing? It all makes sense.

Date: May 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: chaz
"off topic from PERS, but under the mushroom cloud... What is the current status on AACSB? When is USM due for re-evaluation, and how would the loss of the accreditation affect current CoB students? Thanks, -finance major"

We've got a couple of years before the visit. Can't remember the exact timing. AACSB does not immediately jerk accreditation. The usual drill is a year or two of "probation" to see if things improve. However, they are tougher than SACS. They will jerk it at some point, no years and years of probation. If Doty leaves and is replaced by some flak, then you can write it off at that point. If Doty stays we probably get spanked but if he leaves during the process (pretty likely) we'll get hit, just a question of how hard. The other variables are how bad the flight of faculty will get (finance being a prime example) and getting the paperwork done in a low-morale environment. Best case scenario is we scrape the bar on the way over. Worst case, we lose AACSB and get into the bidness of selling degrees to all comers.

Stay tuned.

Date: May 9, 2005

How many losses in finance do you anticipate?