Jay's warning - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 4, 2005

RE: Jay's warning

Date: May 4, 2005

At USM I spent a lot of energy trying to get an explanation of the difference between a "policy" and a "procedure" -- as a former federal employee, I was used to those being fairly distinct. Got nowhere.

Date: May 5, 2005

I doubt that the true issue is the "final" exam. That is, it is not that the exam covers all of the material covered in the class. Indeed, it is more likely that the issue is one of faculty not being in the classroom on a day that is on the schedule. This is another version of "A Day's Work For A Day's Pay. Likewise students are not chanting for a long difficult comprehensive exam. The only thing they report is the absence of a requirement to have their backsides in a desk in the classroom on that specific day. And, only a hand full of students care about that.

Date: May 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Tinctoris
" That's my experience as well. I suppose I'm one of the bad professors mentioned earlier, because I give them a choice of taking the final the last day of classes or at the scheduled final time. Given a choice, the overwhelming majority opt to take it the last day of classes. Exactly what would I do if I were a good professor? Do I refuse to let anyone take it early? Do I make 25 separate appointments during finals week?"

This is interesting. Final Examinations are scheduled for 2.5 hours during final exam week. The week before students are preparing for finals. How do you give students a 2.5-hour final on the week before finals without disturbing all their schedules and affecting their other courses? The answer appears to be "water down" the education. "No 2.5-hour final because I'm too lazy to grade that."

You asked: "Do I refuse to let anyone take it early? Do I make 25 separate appointments during finals week?" No! You refuse to violate university policy. You do not give the students a choice as to whether they want to violate university policy.

This is what gives faculty a bad name. You can’t pick and choose which policies you will obey. Why? Because SFT may choose to not follow a policy or shared governance and you won't be able to point a finger because you do the same thing. It is also disrespectful of the faculty. These policies are generated by our representatives on elected councils.

Date: May 5, 2005

In thirty + years in higher education I have never changed the schedule of a final exam. I can recall precious few semesters that I have not had a student ask to take a final at a different time than scheduled.

Each time I have had a valid request for a exam schedule change I have tried to accomodate the student!! Should I change my policy? Certainly not.

I think this is what you find from Krebs/Thames. Change the rules when it works for me, but use the rules to my advantage otherwise. Giving Krebs the benefit of the doubt, I would say he didnt weigh all the facts when he made his request, then Thames saw it as an opportunity to slam faculty.

I suggest that if the policy/procedure concerning schedule for final exams was strickly enforced, there would be a much louder outcry from students than the whimper Jonathan

Date: May 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Faculty
"
This is interesting. Final Examinations are scheduled for 2.5 hours during final exam week. The week before students are preparing for finals. How do you give students a 2.5-hour final on the week before finals without disturbing all their schedules and affecting their other courses? The answer appears to be "water down" the education. "No 2.5-hour final because I'm too lazy to grade that."
You asked: "Do I refuse to let anyone take it early? Do I make 25 separate appointments during finals week?" No! You refuse to violate university policy. You do not give the students a choice as to whether they want to violate university policy.
This is what gives faculty a bad name. You canï¿½t pick and choose which policies you will obey. Why? Because SFT may choose to not follow a policy or shared governance and you won't be able to point a finger because you do the same thing. It is also disrespectful of the faculty. These policies are generated by our representatives on elected councils.
"

Well, at least now we know who stirred up Krebs and his little band. Not all professors give final comprehensive exams, nor are they always appropriate. In fact, they are probably the least instructive piece a faculty member can use, IMHO.

I'm a student and I can tell you that the faculty I've had who don't give finals have caused me to have to write a lot of papers (which they have to READ...so get off your horse about 'too lazy to grade a 2.5 hour final')...and they have been fantastic learning experiences.

I say throw out the policy on final exams and focus on the rampant grade inflation. Since most students think "A is good and B is bad," I say have only two grades: A and F. Either you are competent or you aren't. Of course, that would mean failing a higher percentage of students than fail the NCLEX.

As a grad assistant, I've had to read some of the dreck that our graduates write and try to pass off as papers. They can't even form a complete sentence. Many can't even form a cogent thought whether they express it in complete sentences or not. And you think the "watered-down" part of education is what day profs give the final exams? Grow up.

Date: May 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: All my faculties intact
" Well, at least now we know who stirred up Krebs and his little band. Not all professors give final comprehensive exams, nor are they always appropriate. In fact, they are probably the least instructive piece a faculty member can use, IMHO. ..."

This may depend on the discipline. However in math and science the subjects build on the knowledge previously developed. When studying chapter 2 the student has no know of what will happen in chapter 14. The comprehensive final is an excellent educational practice because during the student’s review of say chapter 2 for the final they will reach a deeper understanding because they will now see the logical connection to say chapter 14. This understanding was not possible before the complete course was finished.

I tend to question the quality of a "university course" when this process is omitted. It is hard for a student to judge what they missed if they missed being taught this way.

Date: May 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Faculty
" This may depend on the discipline. However in math and science the subjects build on the knowledge previously developed. When studying chapter 2 the student has no know of what will happen in chapter 14. The comprehensive final is an excellent educational practice because during the student’s review of say chapter 2 for the final they will reach a deeper understanding because they will now see the logical connection to say chapter 14. This understanding was not possible before the complete course was finished. I tend to question the quality of a "university course" when this process is omitted. It is hard for a student to judge what they missed if they missed being taught this way. "

Alright - enough is enough. If you, Faculty, are not aware that folks outside of math often give "final" exams that are not cumulative but rather are simply another exam like the others during the semester than you are as guilty as Thames & Krebs in extending your judgement to an entire faculty of which you have little to no knowledge.

Date: May 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
"Alright - enough is enough. If you, Faculty, are not aware that folks outside of math often give "final" exams that are not cumulative but rather are simply another exam like the others during the semester than you are as guilty as Thames & Krebs in extending your judgement to an entire faculty of which you have little to no knowledge."

Angeline, I understand and agree. I did say it "may depend on the discipline" . I was addressing (trying to address) when comprehensive final exams are bypassed in disciplines that should be using them. I didn't mean every discipline. Sorry.

It would be helpful to me if someone could name some disciplines that could not use comprehensive final exams, besides the performing arts that is.

Date: May 5, 2005

English 101 does not give an exam. Probably 102 as well, but I havent' taught that here.

Date: May 5, 2005

Here we are arguing over comprehensive vs noncomprehensive exams when the real issues are: (1) A faculty member can be reported to the provost for whatever punishment this despicable institution chooses to give. Never mind that there may be very legitimate reasons for giving an exam outside of finals week. (2) The president of SGA tattled to SFT. (Most of us learned by kindergarden that tattling is not appropriate). Did SFT verify that there were exams being given this week and make the effort to find out what the reasons were? Of course not! Shoot the accused and then ask questions is now the norm at Hardy Street High. (3) SFT (as others have pointed out) will use anything to prove that faculty are bad at USM. His review is this week. SFT and supporters are making an all out effort to save SFT. Don't let this stuff divide us and side track our attention from the real issue: SFT must go!!!

NO QUARTER!

Date: May 5, 2005

Interestingly enough, the Regisrar has emailed the "University Community" that SOAR is now available for grade entry (Thursday afternoon before exam week). Gee, if professors are supposed to give their exams during exam week, how can they enter grades now? Is the Registrar encouraging faculty to ignore the Provost's edict? Should we report him to the Provost? Or the SGA President?

Date: May 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: In Disbelief
"Here we are arguing over comprehensive vs noncomprehensive exams when the real issues are: (1) A faculty member can be reported to the provost for whatever punishment this despicable institution chooses to give. Never mind that there may be very legitimate reasons for giving an exam outside of finals week. (2) The president of SGA tattled to SFT. (Most of us learned by kindergarden that tattling is not appropriate). Did SFT verify that there were exams being given this week and make the effort to find out what the reasons were? Of course not! Shoot the accused and then ask questions is now the norm at Hardy Street High. (3) SFT (as others have pointed out) will use anything to prove that faculty are bad at USM. His review is this week. SFT and supporters are making an all out effort to save SFT. Don't let this stuff divide us and side track our attention from the real issue: SFT must go!!! NO QUARTER! "

"In Disbelief" sure knows how to unite prople. NO QUARTER!!!

Date: May 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Anonymouse
"Interestingly enough, the Regisrar has emailed the "University Community" that SOAR is now available for grade entry (Thursday afternoon before exam week). Gee, if professors are supposed to give their exams during exam week, how can they enter grades now? Is the Registrar encouraging faculty to ignore the Provost's edict? Should we report him to the Provost? Or the SGA President?

"

Some people don't give exams. Some grades, as in special projects, etc. are ready now.