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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> Teaching assistantships for the Center for Writers
Post Info TOPIC: Teaching assistantships for the Center for Writers
Part-time, no fringes

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Teaching assistantships for the Center for Writers
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This item from today's Sun-Herald says that the USM Center for Writers has been allocated 10 more teaching assistantships at $15,000 each which should make it more competitive (competitive in attractive students I presume). Is this the university's way of "making up" for the enormous loss of full-time faculty members in English? The article implies that these assistantshipsa are earmarked for "teaching." This would be a pretty cheap way of providing instruction to make up for the loss in faculty.


ARTS NOTES



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Invictus

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RE: Teaching assistantships for the Center for Wri
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Yes, it's important that the Center for Writers be "competitive in attractive students"...

I assume you meant "competitive in attracting students," but creative writing is often about what slips through the spell checker, isn't it?

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truth4usm/AH

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Since polymer science grad assistantships are probably up to about $30K/year now (they were around $25K/year when I was last there in '03), it is heartening to see the creative writing grad assistantships increasing. I believe they were $8-$10K before (depending on if you were MA or PhD-bound). I never could understand how anyone could live on that amount.

This is good for the English dept...glad to see some positive news on this front.

Truth



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Cheaper by the dozen

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quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"glad to see some positive news on this front. Truth "
I'm not sure it's positive if they're using those ten new teaching assistants to take the place of the regular faculty who left.

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truth4usm/AH

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RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantships for the Center
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quote:
Originally posted by: Cheaper by the dozen
"I'm not sure it's positive if they're using those ten new teaching assistants to take the place of the regular faculty who left. "


I'm pretty sure these are different pots of money...faculty lines and grad assistantships. English has always used TAs to teach the lower level English classes (ENG 101, 102, Tech Writing, etc.). I don't see this is as a move away from that philosophy...it will only attract even better grad students to the program.

Truth

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Invictus

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RE: RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantships for the Ce
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quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"English has always used TAs to teach the lower level English classes (ENG 101, 102, Tech Writing, etc.). "


So we now know why so many faculty elsewhere on campus have complained on the board about the "quality" of students' writing skills, eh?

The lower level English classes are precisely the ones that ought to be taught by experienced instructors... Just my Flame away...

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Retired teacher

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RE: Teaching assistantships for the Center for Writers
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As a retired teacher (and not an English teacher), here is my 2 cents worth.


It is true that most students don't write very well.  But there is an underlying problem that no teacher of Freshman English can fix: they don't think clearly.  It is impossible to write well if one's thinking is not logical and clear.  And it is impossible for one or two classes to do anything but begin to chip away at the problem.   Instructors in all disciplines have to work on this with them.


 



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LVN

Date:
RE: Teaching assistantships for the Center for Wri
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Thankyou thankyou thankyou -- it's the thinking. I've said that several times on here myself. It's the thinking. And they are not dumb kids, it's just that they're not asked to think so they don't.

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Cheaper by the dozen

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantships for the Center
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quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" I'm pretty sure these are different pots of money...faculty lines and grad assistantships. English has always used TAs to teach the lower level English classes (ENG 101, 102, Tech Writing, etc.). I don't see this is as a move away from that philosophy...it will only attract even better grad students to the program."
I'm reasonably confident that full-time faculty positions can be converted to adjunct faculty positions or to teaching assistantships. The pot from which the money comes doesn't matter. Peter can always be robbed to pay Paul. It's not tit for tat either. Not using funds for full time faculty positions, but using them for assistantships, can result in a hugh savings.

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truth4usm/AH

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantships for th
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quote:
Originally posted by: Cheaper by the dozen
"I'm reasonably confident that full-time faculty positions can be converted to adjunct faculty positions or to teaching assistantships. The pot from which the money comes doesn't matter. Peter can always be robbed to pay Paul. It's not tit for tat either. Not using funds for full time faculty positions, but using them for assistantships, can result in a hugh savings."


Let's separate out 2 issues here in your post:

1. To my knowledge (and please someone from English correct me if I'm wrong!), faculty lines are paid out of different accounts than graduate TA money. It's not transferable money. I'll stand by this until someone else more knowledgeable than me on this says otherwise. Full-time faculty positions might be able to be converted to adjunct positions, but not graduate TAs.

2. Adjuncts and TAs are two totally separate things. With adjuncts teaching classes, yes, you do save a tremendous amount of money. But you also lose any other service (committee work, serving on dissertation cmte, advising students, etc.), research, prestige, etc. that a full-faculty member would bring to the dept.

TAs teach because they need to learn how to do it. I'm ever-grateful that I was able to learn to teach by being a TA in USM's English Dept. They aren't just let loose in the classroom, either. They must take a class specifically geared toward helping them with the mechanics of teaching (how to prepare a syllabus, lecture techniques, portfolio grading, etc.) while teaching their first semester. At least, that's how it used to be when I was there.

So, Invictus, if TAs shouldn't teach intro classes, then how are they supposed to get the training to do their jobs? We learn best by doing, and I would venture to say that it's that way everywhere, even in the bidness world.

Flame away at me, but I'll stick up for TAs teaching intro classes any day.

Truth

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truth4usm/AH

Date:
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quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"

So we now know why so many faculty elsewhere on campus have complained on the board about the "quality" of students' writing skills, eh?

The lower level English classes are precisely the ones that ought to be taught by experienced instructors... Just my Flame away..."


Vic, you know as well as I do that experience does not always make one a good instructor. I have seen too many cases where this theory just doesn't hold water.

You know I respect you, but we may just have to agree to disagree on this one...

Truth

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USM Sympathizer

Date:
RE: RE: Teaching assistantships for the Center for Writers
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quote:
Originally posted by: Retired teacher
"As a retired teacher (and not an English teacher), here is my 2 cents worth. It is true that most students don't write very well.  But there is an underlying problem that no teacher of Freshman English can fix: they don't think clearly.  It is impossible to write well if one's thinking is not logical and clear.  And it is impossible for one or two classes to do anything but begin to chip away at the problem.   Instructors in all disciplines have to work on this with them.  "
Amen!

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maybe more than ramen

Date:
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The way I look at it, there will be 10 new teaching assistants no matter what, and those 10 will be teaching however many sections of English. The recipients of these particular 10 fellowships will get paid better than they would have otherwise, making the spots more competitive.


 



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Cheaper by the dozen

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantships for th
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"  I'm ever-grateful that I was able to learn to teach by being a TA in USM's English Dept. They aren't just let loose in the classroom, either. They must take a class specifically geared toward helping them with the mechanics of teaching (how to prepare a syllabus, lecture techniques, portfolio grading, etc.) while teaching their first semester. At least, that's how it used to be when I was there . . . . . if TAs shouldn't teach intro classes, then how are they supposed to get the training to do their jobs? We learn best by doing, and I would venture to say that it's that way everywhere, even in the bidness world. Flame away at me, but I'll stick up for TAs teaching intro classes any day. Truth"
Truth, I think you are missing the point. Graduate students need teaching experience. That's an essential part of a graduate education. That's why we call their stipend a "teaching assistantship." But sometimes when a university is unsuccessful in attracting suitable job applicants for a faculty position, the position is converted to a teaching assistantship so that classes can be covered. That's a common practice at all doctoral level institutions. No problem with that. But when a department is forced to convert an excessive number of unfilled positions, other important departmental functions can be seriously eroded.

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truth4usm/AH

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantship
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quote:
Originally posted by: Cheaper by the dozen
"Truth, I think you are missing the point. Graduate students need teaching experience. That's an essential part of a graduate education. That's why we call their stipend a "teaching assistantship." But sometimes when a university is unsuccessful in attracting suitable job applicants for a faculty position, the position is converted to a teaching assistantship so that classes can be covered. That's a common practice at all doctoral level institutions. No problem with that. But when a department is forced to convert an excessive number of unfilled positions, other important departmental functions can be seriously eroded. "


And my point is that I don't know if that's what's happening here. It seems to me that if a full-time position was converted to teaching assistantships, wouldn't that have to be an ongoing thing? In other words, you'd have to support those students for at least 4 years (perhaps longer), and that would be 4 years you wouldn't be able to use that $$ to hire a full-time person. Wouldn't it make more sense to use that $$ for a one-time shot to hire a bunch of adjuncts instead? That way, you have no obligations to them past one semester.

This is what leads me to believe that this is NOT what's happening here. But, this is all speculation on my part...I have no insider knowledge here. I am just assuming that if the Center for Writers is publicly announcing these new fellowships, that it is NOT the case that they were obtained by converting full-time positions to assistantships as a one-time deal.

Truth

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stinky cheese man

Date:
RE: Teaching assistantships for the Center for Wri
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i suspect (really more than suspect) that faculty positions were converted to fellowships and assistantships. $150,000 for 10 fellowships--that's recurring money, at least for the length of the fellowships. what do you think Stringer and Polk were being paid, roughly? the assistantship budget was almost doubled as well (assistantships being separate from fellowships). look at the list of departures relative to replacements in the english department. again, assistantships are recurring, at least for the length of the assistantship. also heard that the money is going primarily, if not exclusively, to folks in the creating writing graduate programs. if a student is in the literary theory/criticism area, he or she is less likely to get an assistantship or fellowship. some say, however, that's not much of a change.

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stephen judd

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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Thankyou thankyou thankyou -- it's the thinking. I've said that several times on here myself. It's the thinking. And they are not dumb kids, it's just that they're not asked to think so they don't."

Actually, I think it is both. I think learning two write in an orderly and specific manner helps develop and hone cognitive processes. I'd say the same about math and science, in which logical thinking and reasoning are critical to the process. Teaching how one works through these processes actually is teaching thinking itself . . . 


So clear thinking doesn't precede writing or mathmatical activities, it grows along with them.


 



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AnitaStamper

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantships for th
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quote:




faculty lines are paid out of different accounts than graduate TA money. It's not transferable money.


 


Well, actually, that is not entirely correct, or at least has not been in the past. I was aware of other directors being given permission for one-year or other negotiated term, to use faculty position money for part time or graduate assistantship positions. Also, directors/dept. chairs have the discretion of using wage money to augment assistantships, either by adding positions or by adding money to existing ones. It isn't a far cry from changing a faculty line to the wages budget line and then using that money for assistantships. I had both graduate work study money which was based on financial aid qualification, and assistantship funds. I was able to do a good bit of maneuvering to make that go as far as possible.



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Cheaper by the dozen

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teaching assistantship
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quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"And my point is that I don't know if that's what's happening here."
And I don't know either. It would be nice if somebody from English would tell us if these graduate assistantships are being funded with new money or if they are only converted from faculty positions. The news article reporting this at the top of this tread made it appear to me that the university is finally pumping substantial funds into English. I hope this is true. Anybody in English out there?

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