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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> The great Nitchampburg lie! Report attached
Post Info TOPIC: The great Nitchampburg lie! Report attached
Cox-Purvis Report

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The great Nitchampburg lie! Report attached
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Many have seen the Nitchampburg sign by now.  The first paragraph claims that USM won the 1987 NIT Championship before a "capacity crowd" at Madison Square Garden.  One poster questioned the veracity of the claim.  Our research supports that poster's disbelief. 


The Nitchampburg Report


We took a look at the 2004-05 Media Guide for Men's Basketball.  On page 126 it says that a sellout crowd of 12,742 people watched USM defeat LaSalle.  That game was played in New York City's famed Madison Square Garden.


Our research indicates that the basketball capacity for MSG has been 19,763 since 1968 (nbahoopsonline.com).  This factoid seriously calls into question the claim of "capacity crowd" on the Nitchampburg sign. 


In the Spring of 2004, Michigan and Rutgers played in the NIT finals in MSG.  It is believed that as many as 6,000 Rutgers students drove across the river to see the game, and a crowd of 16,064 enjoyed the action, the largest crowd since the 1994 game (dailytargum.com).


From what we can tell, in Nitchampburg 64.5%=100% (i.e., they use Madermath).



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Cox-Purvis Report

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Addendum Note: The Rutgers-Michigan crowd in 2004 was the largest in 10 years (dailytargum.com reporter).  We wrote "since 1994"  to refer to the 10 years as the 1995-2004 period.  But the writer might have been envisioning 1994-2004. 

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Southern Miss Fan

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I attended the game and believe the 12,742 attendance is accurate but it was not a sellout.  Still a good crowd for Southern Miss. vs. LaSalle in New York City.  I still consider that one of the highlights of 35 plus years of attending Southern Miss athletic events.  Nitchampburg is a stupid idea but it was still a great accomplishment for USM to win that tournament.


 


quote:

Originally posted by: Cox-Purvis Report
"Many have seen the Nitchampburg sign by now.  The first paragraph claims that USM won the 1987 NIT Championship before a "capacity crowd" at Madison Square Garden.  One poster questioned the veracity of the claim.  Our research supports that poster's disbelief.  The Nitchampburg Report We took a look at the 2004-05 Media Guide for Men's Basketball.  On page 126 it says that a sellout crowd of 12,742 people watched USM defeat LaSalle.  That game was played in New York City's famed Madison Square Garden. Our research indicates that the basketball capacity for MSG has been 19,763 since 1968 (nbahoopsonline.com).  This factoid seriously calls into question the claim of "capacity crowd" on the Nitchampburg sign.  In the Spring of 2004, Michigan and Rutgers played in the NIT finals in MSG.  It is believed that as many as 6,000 Rutgers students drove across the river to see the game, and a crowd of 16,064 enjoyed the action, the largest crowd since the 1994 game (dailytargum.com). From what we can tell, in Nitchampburg 64.5%=100% (i.e., they use Madermath)."



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ram

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quote:
Originally posted by: Southern Miss Fan
""

SMF-


I'll never forget Casey Fisher's post game jubilation: "We came; we saw; we tore da house down!"


Nitchampburg cheapens the memory for those of us who remember.  I doubt it does much for those who don't remember anyway.



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Southern Miss Fan

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I agree with that.


 


quote:

Originally posted by: ram
" SMF- I'll never forget Casey Fisher's post game jubilation: "We came; we saw; we tore da house down!" Nitchampburg cheapens the memory for those of us who remember.  I doubt it does much for those who don't remember anyway."



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In memory of nothing

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What was the most significant thing that happened at USM in the academic arena the year we won the NIT? Or the next year. Or the next year. Or the next year. Or the next year. Or the next year. Any memory of academics?

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Southern Miss Fan

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To each his own.


 


quote:

Originally posted by: In memory of nothing
"What was the most significant thing that happened at USM in the academic arena the year we won the NIT? Or the next year. Or the next year. Or the next year. Or the next year. Or the next year. Any memory of academics?"



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Nitchumpburg

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I remember the NIT championship well.  It was a fun night on campus -- cars driving all over the place with students hanging out of the windows.  However, we must recall that this greatest of all USM sporting events netted us a solid 65th place in the country in basketball.  Also if memory serves -- we were the first team (and maybe the only to this day) that won the NIT one year, returned the same players the next year and failed to make the NCAA tourney.  I believe that Bobby Knight then said something like he could have won the NCAA with the talent that we had that did not even make the NCAA.

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Address Unknown

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Will the name ever change from Nitchampburg to FinalFourchampburg?

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library user

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Cox-Purvis and others are correct in pointing out that 12,742 was not in 1987 a capacity crowd for Madison Square Garden.  The newspaper coverage -- New York Times, Hattiesburg American, Student Printz -- the day after the tournament, March 27, 1987, says nothing of capacity crowds or sellouts or anything like it.  The sign is a lie, and SFT's crack crew couldn't even get the name of the NIT  -- the National Invitation (not Invitational) Tournament -- right.  What a place!



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talan

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quote:
Originally posted by: library user
"Cox-Purvis and others are correct in pointing out that 12,742 was not in 1987 a capacity crowd for Madison Square Garden.  The newspaper coverage -- New York Times, Hattiesburg American, Student Printz -- the day after the tournament, March 27, 1987, says nothing of capacity crowds or sellouts or anything like it.  The sign is a lie, and SFT's crack crew couldn't even get the name of the NIT  -- the National Invitation (not Invitational) Tournament -- right.  What a place!"
library user, good find on the name thing.  Classic SFT and gang.

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Eagle Talk Regular

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I'm so sick of you lazy liberal professors bad-mouthing anything having to do with athletics. USM students and alumni get excited about athletics because they are enjoyable -- something many of your so-called "great" classes will never be. Jealousy drips from every pore in your bodies because you will always be second place behind sports.

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disgusted student

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I'm so sick of you lazy liberal professors bad-mouthing anything having to do with athletics. USM students and alumni get excited about athletics because they are enjoyable -- something many of your so-called "great" classes will never be. Jealousy drips from every pore in your bodies because you will always be second place behind sports.



Eagle Talk Regular, it is people like you who make me ashamed to be a Mississippian.

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nitchumpburg

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Eagle Talk Regular,


Most of us go to the games (or at least went) and I can bet that I have been to far more games than you over my life.  I have no jealousy of USM sports -- in fact I like them a lot and have a great deal of respect for the kids who play.  What you miss is the basic point.  SFT has polarized the university and the town so badly that some of the most ardent potential supporters of USM's teams -- USM's faculty -- are being driven away.  A move to be blamed on SFT.  Also you should take the fact that he and his cronies have to lie about USM sports to make them seem better as a real slap in the face.  Real fans should only want real accomplishments by their teams lauded.  Having to make up a sell out in New York to make us sound better cheapens the whole thing.  Real fans should also want real traditions, rather than made up ones.



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LVN

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RE: RE: The great Nitchampburg lie! Report attache
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quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle Talk Regular
" Jealousy drips from every pore in your bodies because you will always be second place behind sports. "


And that tells us everything we need to know about how YOU did in school. Just for curiosity, exactly what do you think a university is for, if sports are more important than classes?

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Eagle Talk Regular

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RE: RE: RE: The great Nitchampburg lie! Report att
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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"

And that tells us everything we need to know about how YOU did in school. Just for curiosity, exactly what do you think a university is for, if sports are more important than classes?"


The university is fine to have as far as it goes. It's just a fact that people care more about sports than they do classes. What I'm hearing from you is frustration that athletics is and always will be at the forefront of USM.

When 90% of the US population wants to get a quick and dirty guide to how good a school is, do you think they see where the faculty publishes? No! They think about what athletic conference the school is in. SEC, Big 10, Big 12, ACC, and PAC-10 schools are generally good quality schools. MAC, MEAC, C-USA, etc are low quality schools for the most part. Athletics rules USM and no matter how many Donne Varoria are published by people who used to be at USM this will be the case.

Waste your time publishing that useless garbage you publish. The only research that should be governmentally funded is medical research. All you pot smoking, commie, hippie, lefty profs can cry in your lunchtime beers over that.

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Tough guy on the field

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quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle Talk Regular
"It's just a fact that people care more about sports than they do classes."
Then why can't you fill the stadium? I've never had to be put on a waiting list for tickets. Its easier to get good seats to a USM football game that it is to get good seats for a theatre production. If what you say is true about people caring more about sports than classes, why do they waste their good money and time on classes?

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Silver Plate Tarnish

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quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle Talk Regular
"It's just a fact that people care more about sports than they do classes."

Eagle Talk Regular,


Now that's something we can put to a simple test. Let's give our students the choice of receiving a diploma or a sports trophy at graduation.



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LVN

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RE: The great Nitchampburg lie! Report attached
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Now there's a thought. Let's just stop college athletics. Let's have universities for people who want to be educated and have careers and professions. Let's have sports academies for students who just want to play games. Of course I don't know where that would leave some of my students who were athletes and who also wanted an education/career/profession (knowing they wouldn't be twenty forever.) Guess those folks would be out of luck. Oh well.
Of course, a number of prominent universities would never notice, as they don't have sports anyway.

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For all the reasons . . .

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Ask any student at any university the extent to which athletics played a role in their selection of a college. I have asked many. It is rare when someone other than an athlete on scholarship responds in the affirmative.

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disgusted student

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To argue with someone like Eagle Talk Regular is a waste of time. He is an ignorant man -- the same type as Insomniac Eagle. He was probabley a "meat head" in grade school and has never grown up. I feel sorry for his wife or anybody that has to be around him for long.

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GatorEagle

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Please don't accept this poster's information as a barometer of most athletic supporters.  Most of us realize that there is an importance balance that, in the past, has been well navigated by our fine coaches at USM. 


I fully support our athletic program, as it compares very well to other D-1 programs across the country.  I can't say the same about our university leadership in the last few years with confidence.  No fault suggested, just my honest 2 cents.


 


FYI - I am an EagleTalk regular.   I love USM but am way too far away from campus to distinctly affect the campus attitude in a direct manner.  I do, however, hope that this "Summer of Discontent" will soon be over and that colleagues of all departments on campus will unite under the Golden Eagle hope of prosperity.  I'm tired and ready to give up on the university if it doesn't happen soon



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Eagle Talk Regular

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The great Nitchampburg lie! Re
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quote:
Originally posted by: Tough guy on the field
"Then why can't you fill the stadium? I've never had to be put on a waiting list for tickets. Its easier to get good seats to a USM football game that it is to get good seats for a theatre production. If what you say is true about people caring more about sports than classes, why do they waste their good money and time on classes? "


That's an empty argument, because theater productions aren't classes, either. They are extracurricular as well. I know for a fact that attendance at class meetings is lower than football and baseball games unless the professor requires attendance. If given a choice, about half the students who are enrolled in a class don't go regularly.

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Eagle Talk Regular

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quote:
Originally posted by: Silver Plate Tarnish
"
Eagle Talk Regular,
Now that's something we can put to a simple test. Let's give our students the choice of receiving a diploma or a sports trophy at graduation. "


Now that's just stupid. However some of you profs are so lazy that students would have to do as much work to get a diploma as they currently do to "participate" in USM athletics -- just give them both! USM diplomas are iffy in terms of getting better jobs for students anyway. I see plenty of USM grads who bartend, wait tables, or work at Wal-Mart. You don't need a diploma to get those jobs.

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Eagle Talk Regular

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RE: RE: The great Nitchampburg lie! Report attache
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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Now there's a thought. Let's just stop college athletics. Let's have universities for people who want to be educated and have careers and professions. Let's have sports academies for students who just want to play games. Of course I don't know where that would leave some of my students who were athletes and who also wanted an education/career/profession (knowing they wouldn't be twenty forever.) Guess those folks would be out of luck. Oh well.
Of course, a number of prominent universities would never notice, as they don't have sports anyway."


If sports plays no role in students' selection of a school, then why is there a documented enrollment effect after a school wins a national championship in a major sport? Honestly, if you're denying the role that athletics plays in attracting students to a university, then you've got blinders on.

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Eagle Talk Regular

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quote:
Originally posted by: For all the reasons . . .
"Ask any student at any university the extent to which athletics played a role in their selection of a college. I have asked many. It is rare when someone other than an athlete on scholarship responds in the affirmative. "


See my post above. This is an empty argument.

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Eagle Talk Regular

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quote:
Originally posted by: disgusted student
"To argue with someone like Eagle Talk Regular is a waste of time. He is an ignorant man -- the same type as Insomniac Eagle. He was probabley a "meat head" in grade school and has never grown up. I feel sorry for his wife or anybody that has to be around him for long. "


Actually, I have a Ph.D. and have taught at an SEC university and a WAC university as well as at USM. Sorry to burst your bubble but I have a lot more perspective on this issue than most posters here do.

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Silver Plated Trophy

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quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle Talk Regular
" Actually, I have a Ph.D. and have taught at an SEC university and a WAC university as well as at USM. Sorry to burst your bubble but I have a lot more perspective on this issue than most posters here do."

Eagle Talk Regular,
 
Not even half the USM students go to football, basketball or baseball games (Even our classes are more than half full). For basketball and baseball it's not even 20%. The low class attendance reflects the poor academic background and ability of most USM students. That is the nature of tier 4 schools. At the acadmically inclined schools students go to class and to sporting events. It's not a case of "either or."  You seem to have a very limited understanding of the relationship of athletics and academics.
 
 
 

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Patti

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RE: The great Nitchampburg lie! Report attached
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To Eagle talk regular,


Since you do hold a Piled higher and Deeper, I will refrain from my original thought.


However, when was the last time USM had a Heisman trophy winner?  My univeristy of choice, and the one I do care about athletics at is The Ohio State University, which has one of the better, no not the best, medical schools in the country, its science programs are fantastic, and they have TBDBITL (translation- the best damn band in the land) The OSU marching band.  All brass, and they are also a damn fine concert band. OSU has had at least 3 Heisman winners, and in saying that, I also know of players who were suspended from games because their GRADE POINT AVERAGE fell below standards.  OSU puts academics first, then sports.  USM appears to put sports above academics.   Claret wanted to go pro 2 years ago, he wasn't chosen.  I have a feeling he was being sent a message to finish his degree as he can't play football forever.   I will admit, I have lost track of that story, but it is nice to know that OSU cares more about academics than they do sports, and the football team there DOES pack the horseshoe, the basketball team does pack the arena, etc etc etc. 


I'm going to regress a bit here, Woody Hayes (and I'm sure you have heard about him) was a great coach, until he smacked that opposing player, anyway, he put academics above athletics. And he was one hell of a coach, I cannot for the life of me remember if he taught a class or not, I was a younger whipper snapper then.


Bottom line Eagle talk regular, it takes a thing called PRIDE in your institution to pack a stadium, to make going to work a joy instead of a dreaded ordeal.  OSU has pride in their institution, and it has its own difficulties, USM doesn't seem to have that from what I read here, no pride what so ever. I also get the feeling that pride once lived there, but when the new "owner" took over, pride was moved out, or forced out.  You calling the professors commies, liberals, pot smoking idiots doesn't help bring pride back.  Those are your colleagues, does that mean you fall into the same "pot" as them?  From my take on your posting, if you are a prof, you are a commie, a liberal, a pot smoking idiot.  If the shoe fits...............................


Have a good day.



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Silver Plated Trophy

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The great Nitchampburg lie! Re
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quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle Talk Regular
"I see plenty of USM grads who bartend, wait tables, or work at Wal-Mart. You don't need a diploma to get those jobs."

Eagle Talk Regular,


Your apparent lack of understanding of the relationship between academics and athletics is exceeded only by your lack of understanding of a college education. You evidently don't understand that numerous bright and resourceful college graduates, from even first and second tier schools, sell real estate, run restaurants, and are paving contractors. Some have become immensly wealthy. None of those trades require a college education. But their four-years of college has given them a greater appreciation of the things about them. You seem to be confusing a college with a trade school.



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