Printz Letter 4/28/05 - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Printz Letter 4/28/05

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Let's see.. he is saying he "I know where you are and I'll be waiting with a gun."

I'm sure he would think it was funny if somone said the same to him.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

You knew I would weight in on this sooner or later. So, here goes.

As many of you know I am a member of EagleTalk. I ready it almost daily. I read the posts that has everyone up in arms. I also read the unrelated post that is the true issue of your rile.

The post that has been used to get the press, about McLaughlin taking a rifle to the admin building, didn't include any mention to the faculty. So for Myron Henry to conclude that the statment was aimed at the faculty is a far reach at best.

The real post that has made you all pout is the post about the anti-Thames faculty all being lazy, ect. My question is why was that not the topic of Henry's letter, or the joint letter by the two good doctors to the American?

Me thinks, it's because a post on a message board bashing the faculty by anyone isn't even a story to the American. But, any news agency will jump when someone takes about a gun.

I just want to make a suggestion to our journalists out there, when the 4th adminment is taken away, the 1st and 2nd will follow shortly.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Nobody is talking about taking any guns away. We're upset about idiots talking about USING their guns on innocent people. You're too young to remember Austin TX, but it was a horrible day. It's not something to joke about. If he had threatened to fly an airplane into the LAB it would have been just as bad. Remember this is not Joe Sixpack, this is the PRESIDENT of the FOUNDATION. We expect the tiniest little bit of discretion and good judgement from somebody who so publicly represents our university.

PS My dad was a member of the NRA before you were born.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Nobody is talking about taking any guns away. We're upset about idiots talking about USING their guns on innocent people. You're too young to remember Austin TX, but it was a horrible day. "

Come on we're all friends here. You guys can drop the "we feared for our lives" garbage with me. You were pissed about his comments about the faculty being lazy. I'm not saying you didn't have a right to be. What I am saying is that you couldn't even get the American to take a look at it until you brought the "gun" into the equation.

LVN, you know I love you. But, please don't talk to me like I'm an idiot (even though you probably think I am).

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"You knew I would weight in on this sooner or later. So, here goes. As many of you know I am a member of EagleTalk. I ready it almost daily. I read the posts that has everyone up in arms. I also read the unrelated post that is the true issue of your rile. The post that has been used to get the press, about McLaughlin taking a rifle to the admin building, didn't include any mention to the faculty. So for Myron Henry to conclude that the statment was aimed at the faculty is a far reach at best. The real post that has made you all pout is the post about the anti-Thames faculty all being lazy, ect. My question is why was that not the topic of Henry's letter, or the joint letter by the two good doctors to the American? Me thinks, it's because a post on a message board bashing the faculty by anyone isn't even a story to the American. But, any news agency will jump when someone takes about a gun. I just want to make a suggestion to our journalists out there, when the 4th adminment is taken away, the 1st and 2nd will follow shortly."

Welcome back Seeker. The professor’s letter was about the negative comments concerning the faculty. Read the letter carefully. The only connection made to the "shooting statement" was it was apologized for, but the statements about the faculty weren’t. The letter defends the faculty, but a much bigger issue is raised in the letter. The issue is the Thames administration dividing the university and community. What kind of leader or manager has one part of the "family" attack another part? It just isn't smart.

How can a man that criticizes the faculty (we are talking 80-90% at least) then solicit funds for that same organization? It just isn't smart.

Faculty on the SACS committees are putting in 60-70 hour a week doing work that they are suppose to spend only 20% of their time on (Service). They will be evaluated as if they spend 40% teaching, 40 research, but because of SFT they need to finish in a few months what should have been done over 2 years. They then have to be put up with attacks from the President of the Foundation.

Seeker, do you really think the faculty should have kept quiet and not informed the public and the IHL Board of this management nightmare? Why? It just isn't smart.

Since you are a member of EagleTalk, let me ask you, "What is this "agenda" they keep saying the faculty have?" It seems everyone they agrees and no one questions "What agenda?", "How do you know?" They seem to me to just believe without asking for any evidence.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Seeker,

When Toy McLaughlin launched into his original diatribe against the faculty of USM it was supposedly on account of professors' complaints about the recruitment of Marcus Raines.

When he made his now infamous remarks about the dome and a high-powered rifle he was also referring to people who criticized the recruitment of Marcus Raines.

Bit of a common thread there....

And as Reporter suggests, maybe you can tell us what the hidden agenda of the anti-Thames faculty at USM might be.

Robert Campbell

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Seeker, I checked over my Idiot List and didn't see your name, so I guess you're off the hook. Most of those listed are over 40 anyway. You get a pass on the basis of Youthful Enthusiasm, just like my own kid does. In any case, I was probably a bigger idiot at your age than you'll ever be.

AFTER you answer Robert Campbell's question, I'd like your take on the mayoral election -- maybe start a new thread. You seem to be more plugged into the Hattiesburg community than some of us are. Mainly your observations, please.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

BIG fan of LVN's. Too much happening at my own univ. to spend much time here, but I remain interested. Will be at the coming out party!

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Robert

I am not sure there is a wide spread agenda against the faculty at USM. I know of no organized effort against the faculty on ET.

I think that ET is just an extention of the community in general. Not everyone on ET is pro-Thames, far from it. I think that some of the pro-Thames individuals on ET are more vocal. But, ET is a sports board. I think that many times this board reads far too much into the rambling there. I know that many of the posters on ET are pro-arts. Several individuals that post regularly on the board are former Pride members. I came home to attend the Placido Domingo concert on the coast, and saw one of the ET owners (the local guy)at the event.

If there is a wide-spread agenda....I've not been included in the loop.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"Robert I am not sure there is a wide spread agenda against the faculty at USM. I know of no organized effort against the faculty on ET. I think that ET is just an extention of the community in general. Not everyone on ET is pro-Thames, far from it. I think that some of the pro-Thames individuals on ET are more vocal. But, ET is a sports board. I think that many times this board reads far too much into the rambling there. I know that many of the posters on ET are pro-arts. Several individuals that post regularly on the board are former Pride members. I came home to attend the Placido Domingo concert on the coast, and saw one of the ET owners (the local guy)at the event. If there is a wide-spread agenda....I've not been included in the loop."

Seeker, It wasn't an ET agenda I was talking about but a secret faculty agenda. Here is a quote from ET by Insomniac Eagle (Mr. McLaughlin). I underlined the important parts.

"

Fish, you have my full trust as do those of you on this board who.....
Reply

believe that The University of Southern Mississippi exists for the purpose of educating our children and not for the pleasure of a selfish few. You not only have my permission to do whatever yor feel in your hearts, but I urge you do so. Keep it clean, and make sure it is true and in context. Don't sink to the level of those who have such low regard for ethical standards.

Please don't misinterpret my silence. I am not giving up in this fight. My feathers have been ruffled, but there is still fight in the old Eagle. I'll be posting again in the next few days, so stay tuned. I am overwhelmed with the sentiment you all have expressed, and I hope we can use this to rally everybody together to save our university from those who would have it serve their selfish agendas. Thanks my brothers. uzi "

Is that icon really shooting? I guess he hasn't learned anything.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

Reporter,

Thanks for keeping us so well informed, not only about this issue but about everything.

I can't believe he would use that icon; so much for his "apology"!

Date: Apr 29, 2005

Not long ago, about the time of the Warren Paving meeting, there was someone on Eagle Talk who that machine gun blasting icon pointed at the word "faculty" in a post over there. I don't remember the name of the poster but it was referenced at the time on this board and was sort of dismissed by posters here as being unimportant. It was about the same time that community leaders were accusing AAUP posters of being violent.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
"
Seeker, It wasn't an ET agenda I was talking about but a secret faculty agenda. Here is a quote from ET by Insomniac Eagle (Mr. McLaughlin). I underlined the important parts.
"

Fish, you have my full trust as do those of you on this board who.....
Reply

believe that The University of Southern Mississippi exists for the purpose of educating our children and not for the pleasure of a selfish few. You not only have my permission to do whatever yor feel in your hearts, but I urge you do so. Keep it clean, and make sure it is true and in context. Don't sink to the level of those who have such low regard for ethical standards. Please don't misinterpret my silence. I am not giving up in this fight. My feathers have been ruffled, but there is still fight in the old Eagle. I'll be posting again in the next few days, so stay tuned. I am overwhelmed with the sentiment you all have expressed, and I hope we can use this to rally everybody together to save our university from those who would have it serve their selfish agendas. Thanks my brothers."

Is that icon really shooting? I guess he hasn't learned anything."

So I guess this explains why there was a post below about copyrighted information.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" So I guess this explains why there was a post below about copyrighted information. "

Seeker, are the Eagle Talk messages copyrighted? I thought that the post referred to the newspaper articles. I still would appreciate answers to my other post.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

Seeker,

Since when is a quotation of one fairly short post from a message board (with attribution of author and source) a violation of copyright?

Like Reporter, I still would like to know what the EagleTalkers think is the "more ambitious agenda" being pursued by those USM faculty who oppose Thames.

Robert Campbell

Date: Apr 29, 2005

I'm trying to remember and can't find the threads right now but weren't there reports of people at the Warren Paving company meeting who also referred to a faculty agenda?

Date: Apr 29, 2005

It is my understanding that any direct cut and past from any rivals.com member website is a copyright infringment. So, why not just post a hyperlink? I don't think that's too much to ask.

I have not been made aware of what the precieved agenda of the faculty is.....I suspect that some heard the statement somewhere (outside of ET) and are simply parrotting on the board.

Again, you guys read way to much into EagleTalk. It's a football message board for crying out loud. You people seek it out like you will find the meaning of life there.....hello.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

The Web Master's warning says, "The specific posts generating the complaint
had already been deleted, and we will not be taking any action, but please
remind your users and moderators to link to information on other websites
instead of duplicating it." Please see:

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=24082&subForumID=36767&action=viewTopic&commentID=2792699&topicPage=1

However, the threads including entire cut and paste copies of Toy McLaughlin's ruminations remain on this board. Please see:

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=24082&subForumID=36767&action=viewTopic&commentID=2722269&topicPage=4

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=24082&subForumID=36767&action=viewTopic&commentID=2722108&topicPage=4

This leads me to believe that perhaps the Eagle Talk quotes were not what generated the copyright complaint.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"It is my understanding that any direct cut and past from any rivals.com member website is a copyright infringment. So, why not just post a hyperlink? I don't think that's too much to ask. I have not been made aware of what the precieved agenda of the faculty is.....I suspect that some heard the statement somewhere (outside of ET) and are simply parrotting on the board. Again, you guys read way to much into EagleTalk. It's a football message board for crying out loud. You people seek it out like you will find the meaning of life there.....hello."

Thanks for replying, Seeker. I too have the feeling that ET people are "simply parroting on the board" some statement "heard somewhere".

Why do I think this important? Because statements like "lazy faculty” can only be meaningful if it comes from someone who is in a position of knowing the work all the faculty do. That can only be the upper administration.

Recall that the administration reported to the IHL that 20 faculty needed post-tenure review? It turned out that only 28 faculty in the whole state were deemed unsatisfactory so USM had 20/28, a high percentage. Then it was discovered that USM's administration didn't follow the guidelines of the handbook, and had to correct the number downward (the number wasn't published).

My theory is SFT had this mistaken idea of "Lazy Faculty" and passed it on to the community as a way to explain why the faculty rejected him so strongly during his hiring. Neither the community nor the IHL Board knew that the faculty remembered his previous performances as administrators.

So you can see our interest. This is evidence of very poor management in which one part of the organization attacks the other. And it continues during this SACS crisis.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" My theory is SFT had this mistaken idea of "Lazy Faculty" and passed it on to the community as a way to explain why the faculty rejected him so strongly during his hiring. "

I don't think it was SFT's "mistaken idea" but rather a very deliberate campaign on his part to play up some pre-existing stereotypes in the community. He has soldiers on the inside and on the outside reinforcing it at every opportunity.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"The Web Master's warning says, "The specific posts generating the complainthad already been deleted, and we will not be taking any action, but pleaseremind your users and moderators to link to information on other websitesinstead of duplicating it." Please see: http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=24082&subForumID=36767&action=viewTopic&commentID=2792699&topicPage=1 However, the threads including entire cut and paste copies of Toy McLaughlin's ruminations remain on this board. Please see: http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=24082&subForumID=36767&action=viewTopic&commentID=2722269&topicPage=4 http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=24082&subForumID=36767&action=viewTopic&commentID=2722108&topicPage=4 This leads me to believe that perhaps the Eagle Talk quotes were not what generated the copyright complaint."

Thanks for your excellent research, Ram. I'm too young to go to jail. I wonder if my crime is as bad as Gary's and Frank's? Maybe Taxas A&M will be interested in me

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
"Thanks for your excellent research, Ram. I'm too young to go to jail. I wonder if my crime is as bad as Gary's and Frank's? Maybe Taxas A&M will be interested in me "

ET posts were not what generated this reminder.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

Could you please tell us what did generate the concern?

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
"Seeker, are the Eagle Talk messages copyrighted? "

Indeed they are, but subject to fair use. For more information on rivals.com copyright please see:

http://www.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=47693

Date: Apr 29, 2005

Virtually every undergraduate term paper, graduate student thesis and dissertation, and published book or manuscript contains appropriately referenced citations from copyrighted material. Otherwise, the Gutenburg Press would come to a grinding halt. Does this mean a different set of standards applies to the Eagle Talk Rivals.com material?

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Across the board, hypocrisy
"I'm trying to remember and can't find the threads right now but weren't there reports of people at the Warren Paving company meeting who also referred to a faculty agenda?"

Bob Mixon, designated spokesman for the Paving Company Putsch, referred to an unstated "more ambitious agenda" in his prepared remarks at the Warren Paving Company meeting. These were later posted on this board.

I thought Seeker was referring to that same alleged USM faculty agenda in one of his posts about EagleTalk. Apparently I misinterpreted his remarks.

Robert Campbell

Date: Apr 29, 2005

Without worrying about any copyright infringement, I can say with confidence that Toy McLaughlin's posts on the "other board" are littered with language that is appalling given his leadership position at the university. How much is going to be enough?

Toy spews that the only good Yankee is a "dead one" and that it was the "black vote" that kept the bond issue from passing. He projects an adolescent fascination with his frequent postings about all things "gay" - I am quite sure that I will not be renewing my Eagle Club membership nor my Foundation contributions.

Date: Apr 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Yes Boss!
"I don't think it was SFT's "mistaken idea" but rather a very deliberate campaign on his part to play up some pre-existing stereotypes in the community. He has soldiers on the inside and on the outside reinforcing it at every opportunity."

I agree with Yes, Boss! on this one.

Whether Thames personally believes that most faculty are lazy whiners isn't important. (But then he is a narcissist, so when he was on the faculty he may well have thought that only he worked hard and no one else ever did.)

What's important is that he found it useful to appeal to people in the community who think of faculty members as lazy whiners. Probably before he was "coronated," certainly since he first got into hot water as president of USM.

During the last year of the Max Lennon administration at Clemson (the great architect of administrative expansion at CU was president from 1986 to 1994), he was increasingly in trouble with the faculty; he ended up resigning rather than face a vote of no confidence from the entire faculty. During this period, the Greenville News ran several editorials denouncing the Clemson faculty, which intensified after Lennon announced his resignation. Letters to the editor began appearing that also employed the "lazy whiners" theme.

Some profesors at Clemson thought that the editorials and the letters were orchestrated by a couple of Lennon's lieutenants. I have no proof concerning the letters, but it's obvious that the editorials were orchestrated because the News has always sucked up to the Clemson Board of Trustees.

When Lennon he resigned, he was replaced by a Board member named Phil Prince. During the Fall semester after he took office, Prince placed an op-ed in the News expressing suppport for the Clemson faculty and calling for an end to divisiveness. The News has never run a single anti-faculty editorial since then, and anti-faculty letters have been extremely sporadic.

With Max Lennon and his top adminstrators, appealing to anti-faculty stereotypes was the last refuge of a scoundrel.

With Shelby Thames, we may have to amend that to first refuge.

Robert Campbell

Date: Apr 29, 2005

This point has been made repeatedly. It needs to be made over and over. Pick a school you like. Pick UAB, USA, MSU, Ole Miss, UMemphis. Take 500 random members of that school's faculty. Plop them down in Hattiesburg at USM.
Give them - - - what? A month? A week? At the end of that time, you will have EXACTLY the same situation of faculty vs. Dome that you have today. Maybe worse, because these 500 would not have the ties to this area and would be more free to speak and agitate.
It is not the faculty who are out of synch. The culture of academia is basically the same everywhere. Our faculty, and every other faculty, know how things are supposed to be done.