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Post Info TOPIC: image I can't shake
philo

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image I can't shake
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Noel Polk is in the english department at Mississippi State.  Everyone has always known that the MS univs famous for the liberal arts/arts were Ole Miss and USM.  Fittingly, one is located at the top of the state, the other at the bottom.  Noel Polk became a world-class Faulkner scholar at the one in southern part, but was continually courted by the other from the north.


Now, he sits in the middle, at an ag school that castrates bulls before big football games to fire up the masses.  A place where everyone goes to major in science, with business as a fall back.  I know some of you in english want to chime in and explain "that there are good people in english at State."  Surely that is true.  But you can't convince me that State sits atop UM and USM (historically) on that front.  Others will want to say "don't worry, Noel is much better off now..."  But, is that because some wonderful administrator swept into MSU and made it a better place for Faulkner scholars, or because some completely awful administrator swept into USM and made it a living Hell for Faulkner scholars?  These are two very different kinds of "being better off." 


The "war against Thames" looks so much like Vietnam at this point.  Here we are 3 years into it, and people are saying "we're almost there, just throw a little more of your dwindling enery and effort into the breach and we'll win this thing."  On the other side, Thames has his army of disposables (Exline, etc.) throwing their careers into the trash heap of history to keep his "program" going.


Meanwhile, Noel Polk sits in his office in Starkville, a place even the family often refers to as "Starkpatch."  A place where McAllister's is "fine dining."  A place where they castrate bulls before athletic events to fire up the masses.



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Cow Bell

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Pardon me, philo, but you are uninformed. Just because Mississippi State has achieved a fine reputation as a land grant university (e.g., engineering, agriculture, extension programs bringing university accomplishments to the people of Mississippi), it does not mean they are lacking in the liberal arts. LSU is also a land grant school as is Texas A&M and others. All of the ones I mentioned maybe jokingly referred to as cow colleges, but all have marvelous English departments. If you have not already done so, step foot on the campus a land grant university. You will feel the excitement.

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foot soldier

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quote:
Originally posted by: philo
"
Meanwhile, Noel Polk sits in his office in Starkville, a place even the family often refers to as "Starkpatch."  A place where McAllister's is "fine dining."  A place where they castrate bulls before athletic events to fire up the masses."


And at USM they send new faculty to Barnhill's. Remind me why any of this commentary is going to further the cause?

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poster

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quote:
Originally posted by: Cow Bell
"Pardon me, philo, but you are uninformed. Just because Mississippi State has achieved a fine reputation as a land grant university (e.g., engineering, agriculture, extension programs bringing university accomplishments to the people of Mississippi), it does not mean they are lacking in the liberal arts. LSU is also a land grant school as is Texas A&M and others. All of the ones I mentioned maybe jokingly referred to as cow colleges, but all have marvelous English departments. If you have not already done so, step foot on the campus a land grant university. You will feel the excitement. "
Cow Bell, do you believe MSU english department has been better than either UM or USM?  If no, philo's point stands.  I don't think you can make the case that has been as good as the other two (and you can admit that without saying that MSU's is "bad").

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Accurate image

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The Department of English at MSU is better than the one at USM if for no other reason than this: Shelby Thames is not president of MSU.

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Heathcliff Huxtable

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The "war against Thames" looks so much like Vietnam at this point.  Here we are 3 years into it, and people are saying "we're almost there, just throw a little more of your dwindling enery and effort into the breach and we'll win this thing."  On the other side, Thames has his army of disposables (Exline, etc.) throwing their careers into the trash heap of history to keep his "program" going.


Vietnam? I won't even dignify that asinine remark with a response.

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HBclinicstaff

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quote:
Originally posted by: Heathcliff Huxtable
" The "war against Thames" looks so much like Vietnam at this point.  Here we are 3 years into it, and people are saying "we're almost there, just throw a little more of your dwindling enery and effort into the breach and we'll win this thing."  On the other side, Thames has his army of disposables (Exline, etc.) throwing their careers into the trash heap of history to keep his "program" going. Vietnam? I won't even dignify that asinine remark with a response."
Heathcliffe, start with the second sentence of the passage from philo you quoted.  Is there anything there you disagree with?  Not me.

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qwerty

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Philo:
Dr. Polk was lured to MSU to reinvigorate their well-respected, but recently languishing humanities journal, the Mississippi Quarterly. He's got a good gig there.

The key point, however, is that he is no longer at USM teaching undergraduates and training Ph.D.'s His loss is severe and irreplacable. He's was one of a handful of scholars at USM in any department (and that includes the sciences) that enjoyed an international reputation. That now benefits MSU.

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Heathcliffe Huxtable

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If you can't see the egregiousness of comparing the Thames debacle to the Vietnam War, then nothing I say is going to open your eyes.

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HBClinicstaff

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quote:
Originally posted by: Heathcliffe Huxtable
"If you can't see the egregiousness of comparing the Thames debacle to the Vietnam War, then nothing I say is going to open your eyes."
So, you just ignore my comment/question.  I like that.

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Cow Bell

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quote:
Originally posted by: poster
"Cow Bell, do you believe MSU english department has been better than either UM or USM?  If no, philo's point stands.  I don't think you can make the case that has been as good as the other two (and you can admit that without saying that MSU's is "bad")."

poster,


I made no comparison of the english departments of those three schools. I am not qualified to make that judgment. You missed my point entirely. Read my lips. Read my post again. I was simply saying that land grant schools such as State are not as primitive as philo might have us believe.l



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Heathcliffe Huxtable

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I believe I did respond to your posting. I said to compare the Vietnam War, which was fought by brave soldiers, to the "War against Thames" which is being fought by a bunch of whiney professors is a boneheaded comparison.

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Lord Vader

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How in the hell can anyone compare the Thames BS to the Vietnam war? Has anyone died? Has thousands of young men been sent out to die? No, the answer is no. You are nuts if you believe that's even a close analgy.
The Thames thing is just a case of bad judgement on the part of the College Board. The case of one man doing what he deems is necessary ( however stupid it is) for the unversity.
I am apalled, no totally in shock, that anyone with a brain between their ears would even dare to compare the two. What's next comparing it toe Sept. 11 and our fight for what's right and good?
Jesus, you need to pull your head out of your hindparts and get a life. This really angers me to the point that I would like have a verbal confrontation with the fool that posted that comment.
Where's the blood, the death, the destruction? THis is a minor tiff between people with opposing views. No one brought guns, tanks, bombs and children covered with explosives to the table. IN 20 years who will remember or care about this stupid university and its moronic people.
If you don't like my thoughts, kiss my lilly white hind parts.

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HBclinicstaff

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quote:
Originally posted by: Heathcliffe Huxtable
"I believe I did respond to your posting. I said to compare the Vietnam War, which was fought by brave soldiers, to the "War against Thames" which is being fought by a bunch of whiney professors is a boneheaded comparison."
But, you didn't answer the question I posed.  Oh well.

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artist

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quote:
Originally posted by: Lord Vader
"How in the hell can anyone compare the Thames BS to the Vietnam war? Has anyone died? Has thousands of young men been sent out to die? No, the answer is no. You are nuts if you believe that's even a close analgy. The Thames thing is just a case of bad judgement on the part of the College Board. The case of one man doing what he deems is necessary ( however stupid it is) for the unversity. I am apalled, no totally in shock, that anyone with a brain between their ears would even dare to compare the two. What's next comparing it toe Sept. 11 and our fight for what's right and good? Jesus, you need to pull your head out of your hindparts and get a life. This really angers me to the point that I would like have a verbal confrontation with the fool that posted that comment. Where's the blood, the death, the destruction? THis is a minor tiff between people with opposing views. No one brought guns, tanks, bombs and children covered with explosives to the table. IN 20 years who will remember or care about this stupid university and its moronic people. If you don't like my thoughts, kiss my lilly white hind parts."
I don't take analogies as literally as you do, I guess.  My take was that the guy/gal was saying that one side in this dispute was being worn down by the other side.  If you get all upset about an analogy like that it seems like you might be someone looking for something to rail on or go ballistic about.  Oh my gosh --- I just typed "ballistic."  I hope that's okay.

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jokester

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quote:
Originally posted by: artist
"I don't take analogies as literally as you do, I guess.  My take was that the guy/gal was saying that one side in this dispute was being worn down by the other side.  If you get all upset about an analogy like that it seems like you might be someone looking for something to rail on or go ballistic about.  Oh my gosh --- I just typed "ballistic."  I hope that's okay."
Right on!  I am reminded of all the photos of SFT as Hitler.  They make a good point without being literal (to everything about Hitler and what he did).

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LVN

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I'd like to help derail this Vietnam thing. It was a very unfortunate choice of metaphor. I'm from the Vietnam was era, so I can appreciate the objections to this remark. Let's try to start over. Here's the question at hand

"Here we are 3 years into it, and people are saying "we're almost there, just throw a little more of your dwindling enery and effort into the breach and we'll win this thing." On the other side, Thames has his army of disposables (Exline, etc.) throwing their careers into the trash heap of history to keep his "program" going."

I've asked this before myself -- why do people keep stepping up and sacrificing themselves and their careers in this manner?

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Lord Vader

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Not looking for something to go ballistic about. Just didn't think it was apporiate (sp) to use such an analgy. I know too many people what were effected by Vietnam to just sit by and let someone make a mockery of it. That's all. It was wrong and I take offense at that.

How do you think those people would feel? It really makes their sacrifices look small and insignicant when you compare it to the battle at Southern Miss.





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Lord Vader

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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"I'd like to help derail this Vietnam thing. It was a very unfortunate choice of metaphor. I'm from the Vietnam was era, so I can appreciate the objections to this remark. Let's try to start over. Here's the question at hand

"Here we are 3 years into it, and people are saying "we're almost there, just throw a little more of your dwindling enery and effort into the breach and we'll win this thing." On the other side, Thames has his army of disposables (Exline, etc.) throwing their careers into the trash heap of history to keep his "program" going."

I've asked this before myself -- why do people keep stepping up and sacrificing themselves and their careers in this manner? "


Because like any "good" leader, his followers are willing to do what it takes to make him succeed. Bottom line, they are playing the marytr for "the cause."

Frankly, I am just ready for it to be over.

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okay

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quote:
Originally posted by: jokester
"Right on!  I am reminded of all the photos of SFT as Hitler.  They make a good point without being literal (to everything about Hitler and what he did)."
I have 2 close relatives that flew 24 missions (each) in a B-17 over the Third Reich.  Those pictures didn't bother me or them.

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poster child

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quote:
Originally posted by: poster
"do you believe MSU english department has been better than either UM or USM? "
poster: your question will be answered soon enough . . . when the National Research Council ratings next appear. The last such ratings were done 10 years ago. They are normally conducted every 10 years. The NCR ratings are much more carefully done and far more meaningful than those in the USNews &WR. Let's hope NCR is continuing with that important project. Those ratings in the past have not matched USM's professed image terribly well. Now that we've achieved world class status that should change.

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View from a Distance

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Noel Polk was the keynote speaker at the MSU Graduate Students' Association Research celebration. Wonderful talk! You should have been there.

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