Those Dreadful USM Professors - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Those Dreadful USM Professors

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Cossack--again, you are right on the money here. It's hard to effectively "coordinate" a cry for help, now isn't it?

My heart goes out to all who are working hard to save USM...

NO QUARTER!

Truth

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Folks still don't get it. When USM flexed its muscled in the late 1990s, it was determined to first get the leadership and then down the school. You think I am kidding. Just look at the record. Look at the IHL. If you think I am kidding about this, then you don't get the picture. Of course, up to now seems like folks are mostly naive about what has been happening the last five years or so.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Well put, Cossack.

Yours is the question that seems never to have been considered by Kudzu King, Mush Mouth, Seeker, or even the more virulent critics of the USM faculty. I hope one of them will take the time to answer. As far as I know, there has never even been an attempt to explain why the faculty at USM is thought to be so inferior. The closest anyone seems to come is the "vocal minority" rationalization.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Cossack
"Many have posted pro and con about the work ethic of USM professors along with their many other shortcomings. While entertaining to read, it is not the issue any more. Let us assume for a moment that the professor bashers are correct. Collectively all professors are under worked, over paid, arrogant, and have bad breath. The more germane question is, why the hell are these crusaders singling out USM professors? I have not read any post by these self-appointed critics about the rent-seeking pieces of crap professors at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Jackson State, Delta State, Alcorn State, the W, or Mississippi Valley State. How did all of these sorry professors end up in Hattiesburg? Maybe Hattiesburg is at fault, it is such a sorry place that all of the flotsam in professor hood end up here. Maybe the Hattiesburg community is at fault. If it were a better community, all of the crappy professors would not have come here. I have a difficult time believing my own hypothesis. The real issue is that the target is narrowly focused on USM, not one word about any other Mississippi public university. Again I ask, who is the winner in this long campaign to beat down USM? Why are there zero words of support from any other of the universities? Why are the supporters of Ole Miss, Mississippi State, etc. so silent? Most implicitly understand that putting SFT at the helm will weaken USM and they may marginal benefit. The final insult is that USM faculty who have victimized are being told that the reason they are in this mess is that they are guilty of not managing their message correctly. Most of what has been said by the faculty was a call for help. That call was ignored, ridiculed, laughed at, and even attacked as whining. We were made the enemy and have had the audacity to try to fight back. The groups have changed, but the situation is eerily similar to the old Mississippi where "those that are not like us" were the enemy. "

Cossack -- you put your finger directly on another unanswered question and one to which the Board should be forced to respond. I agree with toga -- when I came here I was told that USM is a roll up your shirt sleeves and dive in working class university where salaries aren't as good, resources aren't as plentiful but faculty commitment to deep and passionate. And, yes, the metaphor of a family loomed pretty strongly. As ina family that knows it needs to work harder than the other families around it. It has always been clear to me why, given the politics of the state, this is so. It appaears to me that in recent years those politics have taken a sharper and more "punitive" direction aimed at USM as the previous leadership, and now the current faculty, challenge decisions affecting USM from the Board on up. I do think there is a quiet agenda to keep us "down on the farm."

Date: Apr 28, 2005

This attitude out there toward faculty may actually be filtering into our students' mindsets. The other day, an irate father burst into the office of a chair and yelled and screamed at him. The chair asked him to leave and the father refused. The chair said he would have to call campus security and the father physically threatened the chair. Dad walked around the desk toward the chair, but luckily the chair escaped into the reception area where there were plenty of witnesses. Campus police arrived just after the dad escaped. The campus police are pursuing this matter and informed the chair that it is a felony to threaten violence against educators. (I don't know if this is true)

Then you have Toy McLaughlin threatening to shoot from the top of the dome.

If the local business community has such a low opinion of faculty, then it is easy to see how fathers and then all of our students can become similarly inclined.

Amy Young

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
"This attitude out there toward faculty may actually be filtering into our students' mindsets. The other day, an irate father burst into the office of a chair and yelled and screamed at him. The chair asked him to leave and the father refused. The chair said he would have to call campus security and the father physically threatened the chair. Dad walked around the desk toward the chair, but luckily the chair escaped into the reception area where there were plenty of witnesses. Campus police arrived just after the dad escaped. The campus police are pursuing this matter and informed the chair that it is a felony to threaten violence against educators. (I don't know if this is true) Then you have Toy McLaughlin threatening to shoot from the top of the dome. If the local business community has such a low opinion of faculty, then it is easy to see how fathers and then all of our students can become similarly inclined. Amy Young"

Yep. And we have US Senators calling for violence against federal judges and a White House that tells people with other viewpoints to "shut up" or "f--- off." Lovely times we live in. When the elite countenance violence through their rhetoric it is nearly inevitable that violence will eventually ensue.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

If the local business leaders persist in faculty bashing the golden goose will be no more. USM will be but a shell of its former self. No faculty, no students, no spending.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

amy--sadly, the chronicle had an article some time back indicating that the incident you describe is becoming more frequent in higher education.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Cossack is correct. My theory is this: When the faculty voted against hiring SFT he had to explain that and began the attack on faculty by telling the public (in small groups) negative things that they already believed. The faculty voted against SFT because it remembered his pervious performances as an administrator. The public doesn't have that memory and, more importantly, the IHL Board doesn't have that memory. None of the IHL members were in office back then. SFT is still trying to destroy this university memory. This is why our opponents can never debate specifics, the believe these scattered negative statements based on PR from the administration.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Cossack,

The difference between USM and other state schools is they have presidents wise enough to know that bashing your own faculty is a fool's game. If you have a lazy, trouble making faculty, why should students come to your school? Why should people donate large amounts of money to your school? Good presidents praise their hard working faculty at every opportunity. Unfortunately, the faculty bashing has the effect of becoming a self fulfilling prophecy as marketable professors head for the exits. Look at nursing, English, Criminal Justice, History, and many other departments. Of course, other state schools are being silent. USM is self destructing, and the IHL is complicit in the whole sordid mess.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

This is what I have been worried about since the start of all this. It is difficult enough in the classroom with our students, many of whom are working at full time jobs and are/or only marginally prepared for university work. They come to the university with no understanding of the distinction between education and training and when it is explained, they believe that education is unimportant. Many only want what they need to get jobs. The respect for faculty has deteriorated to the point where competent high school teachers are leaving in droves--at least in the public schools. Now this climate is being cultivated at USM. It is almost impossible to teach young people when there is no mutual respect. Shelby Thames has contributed to the erosion of that respect. I saw it coming last spring.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

The whole mood in this town has changed, possibly for a long time. That much is evident.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
"Yep. And we have US Senators calling for violence against federal judges and a White House that tells people with other viewpoints to "shut up" or "f--- off." Lovely times we live in. When the elite countenance violence through their rhetoric it is nearly inevitable that violence will eventually ensue."

Yep, and we have a whole series of conservative speakers being physically assaulted on college campuses, and leftist rioters destroying property wherever the global econonomic leaders happen to meet, and a tenured leftist nut calling the victims of 9/11 Little Eichmanns, etc., etc., etc. Let's not let this board degenerate into political sniping; the fire can easily go both ways.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Dearly Departed
"If the local business leaders persist in faculty bashing the golden goose will be no more. USM will be but a shell of its former self. No faculty, no students, no spending. "

This is our plan.We want to replace John Donne with John Deere.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lest we forget
"Yep, and we have a whole series of conservative speakers being physically assaulted on college campuses, and leftist rioters destroying property wherever the global econonomic leaders happen to meet, and a tenured leftist nut calling the victims of 9/11 Little Eichmanns, etc., etc., etc. Let's not let this board degenerate into political sniping; the fire can easily go both ways. "

Physical assaults with pies mount - right-wingers concerned.

Some samples:

Ann Coulter, October 2004:

David Horowitz, April 2005:

Bill Gates, February 1998:

Date: Apr 28, 2005

"Physical assaults with pies mount - right-wingers concerned."

Angeline,

Are you minmizing the importance of ANY physical assault on campus -- especially assaults designed to shut down free expression of ideas? Or are these incidents just your idea of "jokes"? If so, you and Toy have more in common than I would have thought.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lest we forget
""Physical assaults with pies mount - right-wingers concerned."
Angeline,
Are you minmizing the importance of ANY physical assault on campus -- especially assaults designed to shut down free expression of ideas? Or are these incidents just your idea of "jokes"? If so, you and Toy have more in common than I would have thought. "

LWF, give it a rest.

Truth

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" LWF, give it a rest. Truth"

Why? A respected member of the board SEEMS to be minimizing the significance of physical assaults on college campuses if the weapons happen to be pies and if the targets happen to be right-wingers. If I've misunderstood Angeline, I apologize; if I haven't, I do not, nor will I "give it a rest." If you tell me that this is not a board for broader political debate, I agree and would only point out that that was the exactly point of my original reply. The better response for Angeline would have been not to respond or to have withdrawn her original comment. In either case the discussion would then have ended.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lest we forget
"
Why? A respected member of the board SEEMS to be minimizing the significance of physical assaults on college campuses if the weapons happen to be pies and if the targets happen to be right-wingers. If I've misunderstood Angeline, I apologize; if I haven't, I do not, nor will I "give it a rest." If you tell me that this is not a board for broader political debate, I agree and would only point out that that was the exactly point of my original reply. The better response for Angeline would have been not to respond or to have withdrawn her original comment. In either case the discussion would then have ended.
"

I'm not minimizing anything. You are maximizing something just to grandstand. That's why I said "give it a rest." Perhaps I should have said, "Please give it a rest."

PS--A pie is not a gun. At least, not the last time I checked.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Oh come on LWF, pie-throwing is (almost always) harmless in the college-prank / Monty Python school of comedy. Sometimes, I do admit, the victim has to buy a new shirt. But, hey, as Toy McLaughlin says "I apologize if I offended anyone," . . . "My intention was anything but to offend or attack anyone on a personal basis." . . . "This is obviously meant as sarcasm. If any of you think I would actually consider such a thing, it is you that have a problem."

BTW: the assaulters of Coulter and Buchanan have been, appropriately, charged with a crime. Why not Toy?

More pie adventures: video of Bill Kristol getting pied, March 30, 2005: http://newswire.indymedia.org/newswire/media/2005/03/821395.mov

Pat Buchanan "pied" with salad dressing, April 1, 2005:

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" I'm not minimizing anything. You are maximizing something just to grandstand. That's why I said "give it a rest." Perhaps I should have said, "Please give it a rest." PS--A pie is not a gun. At least, not the last time I checked."

Truth,

I'm honestly not trying to grandstand at all. I'm just trying to reiterate that this board is not a place for larger political discussions (my original point). You agree, don't you?

Yes, a pie is not a gun. Toy could claim that a joke is not a threat. (Apparenlty he jokes all the time on ET about shooting himself; should be put him on a suicide alert? If you don't believe me, look at some of the posts over there defending him.)

Toy could also claim that a real physical assault with a pie (or whatever) is much worse than a lame joke, and I think I'd have to agree if the comparison were framed in those terms. But do we really want to go down the road of comparing idiotic behavior and trying to decide which is more idiotic? And if we ever wanted to get into a discussion of which side of the political spectrum has been responsible for more actual violence and caused more actual deaths, it would not be pretty for anyone concerned.

So: can we agree to just keep larger politics off of this board? If we can agree on that point, I'll shut up. If not, I'll keep typing.

(By the way, I'm NOT a right-winger, so I'm not trying to defend right-wing politics here. I'm trying to discourage discussion of politics of any sort IN THIS FORUM. Elsewhere it's fine; normally I love to debate politics as much as anyone, and I'll continue the debate here if you want to, though I'd prefer not to.)

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
" BTW: the assaulters of Coulter and Buchanan have been, appropriately, charged with a crime. Why not Toy? "

Because Toy has not committed a crime; he merely (very stupidly) exercised his right to free speech -- a right the pie-throwers try to prevent others from exercising.

Angeline, why are all these pie-throwers from your side of the aisle? Why are the right-wingers apparently willing to let others have their say without having some fun by throwing pies at them? Doesn't make your side look too good.

Are you REALLY saying that you wouldn't mind it if the Young Republicans started assaulting your heroes with pies? If that's what you really think, okay, but I have to say that if that's the case I'd have a lot less respect for you than I have had before now.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Those Dreadful USM Profess

Date: Apr 28, 2005

RE: Those Dreadful USM Professors

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Angeline,

I could make a fairly strong case that what has been happening at USM (and especially the lack of sympathy we generate among the larger public) is a result of the excesses of the academic left. However, if I made that argument, I would be distracting us from the main purpose of this board.

If you want to write off physical assault with pies as just a joke, be my guest. But don't expect much sympathy except among a very narrow band of people.

Clinton (do we really want to go there?), got hit with verbal pies, not literal ones. Verbal pies are quite fine in my book. (It wasn't from pies that people in the vicinity of Clinton usually got their clothes messy.)

I oppose pie-throwing, shouting people down, threats of violence -- anything that will prevent civil discussion. Apparently some folks are willing to make exceptions. That's the only real point at issue here.

By the way, I'll be glad to continue this discussion as long as anyone wants to, but I'd rather be discussing SFT.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lest we forget
" Because Toy has not committed a crime; he merely (very stupidly) exercised his right to free speech -- "

But in 1919 the US Supreme Court set reasonable limits on free speech. See http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxshouti.html.

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Isn't "Toy" (What a name...I'd like to know how he came by that...surely a nickname?)...one of the group who was up in arms about alleged violence advocated by faculty on this board? See another thread for this disucussion. Weren't some in the business community upset about alleged calls for violence by faculty? One, I believe I recall, stated that he carried a gun in his car just in case. A survey of the board found no evidence of such remarks...how then can this same community NOT be upset by an explicit statement of violence, even if made in jest? I'm having trouble with the logic.....

Date: Apr 28, 2005

Cossack and this dreadful thread

Date: Apr 28, 2005

RE: Those Dreadful USM Professors