quote:

---

Originally posted by: Defies Logic
""One point Dr. Thames emphasized was that more students enrolled in college courses could lure more industries to South Mississippi.""

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by: No Thames Cheerleader
"This is a simple statement of fact, not a Thamesian dream, and there's nothing wrong with the proposition.  All you need do is look at the "research triangle" in North Carolina, or silicon valley in California, or the recent industrial explosion in central Texas centered around R&D at the U. of Texas and the highly educated workforce produced by UT and Texas A&M.  Hig tech employers like to locate, or re-locate, in places where they have a native pool of educated prospective employees.  If students in Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi decide to enroll at USM on the coast, and that in turn attracts new industry, then what's the objection? This is not, and I repeat NOT, a Shelby Thames or Ken Malone brainchild.  Indeed, I doubt either of them has ever experienced a brainchild."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by: No Thames Cheerleader
"All you need do is look at the "research triangle" in North Carolina, or silicon valley in California, or the recent industrial explosion in central Texas centered around R&D at the U. of Texas and the highly educated workforce produced by UT and Texas A&M."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by: SGA Senator
"Dr. Thames certainly doesn't sound like a president on his way out."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Former Executive
"The resulting high technology growth of the surrounding areas of the schools you mention is an example of the synergy between excellent comprehensive academic institutions, industry, and the state.  The underlying problem with this entire economic development charade at USM is that Shelby Thames and his non-academic advisors have dropped the ball on establishing a quality academic institution.  The people who want to see economic growth in the state were blinded by Shelby Thames' promises in their desire to see the state prosper.  The research triangle, silicon valley, the Massachusetts high tech corridor and the Austin area were built up from a brain trust emanating from top tier universities.  Industry does not flock to a tier-plummeting university on academic probation."

I have no quarrel with anything you've said, including your assessment of the mess that Thames and company have made, and are making, of USM.  My comment was of a general nature.  I was merely  pointing out that the notion of industries, particularly those which rely on an educated workforce, being attracted to locations proximate to universities, is not an hypothesis, but a fact.   Because industry-university synergism was mentioned by Shelby Thames does not render it an outrageous proposition.  The idea only becomes absurd when one attempts to move from the general to the specific and encounters the situation you so eloquently describe at USM. "Industry does not flock to a tier-plummeting university..."  That's the rub.

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Industrial Cartel
"

2. What large university is located in or near Jackson that caused Nissan to locate there rather than near Hattiesburg, Starkville, or Oxford?"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Industrial Cartel
" No Thames Cheerleader, Two questions for you: 1. Would industry be attracted here if USM's student population numbered 20,000 rather that its current number? 2. What large university is located in or near Jackson that caused Nissan to locate there rather than near Hattiesburg, Starkville, or Oxford?"

---

Intentionally or not, you are falling prey to the straw man fallacy.  I did not say, suggest, or imply that a 20K  student goal for USM was in and of itself a good thing, or that it was worthy of pursuing at the sacrifice of quality of students, faculty, or overall learning experience. Nor did I say, suggest, or imply that 20,000 students would lure industry to Hattiesburg, or to Gulfport.  You seem to be mounting an argument against something I never said.  USM should concern itself with providing a high quality education and the size of the student body will take care of itself.  I had a conversation with Bobby Khayat several years ago at a time when Ole Miss was bumping up against a 10,000 student census in Oxford.  I facetiously commented that he was probably laying awake at night strategizing over how to break through the 10K barrier.  He gave me a puzzled look, and said that he didn't care of Ole Miss NEVER exceeded ten thousand students, so long as the quality of the university and its students continued to improve.  Shelby should go to school on Khayat's approach.

As to the Nissan plant, that example has no relevance at all to my original thesis.  The location of the new Nissan plant in Mississippi and near Jackson was a politically orchestrated deal from the get-go, with many financial concessions sweetening the pot.  It had absolutely nothing to do with access to a university or an educated workforce.  If you're familiar with the auto manufacturing industry, then you know that the bulk of jobs require eye-hand coordination, basic mechanical skills, and a high tolerance for boredom, but nothing in the way of a higher education.  This isn't true of their engineering, design, and R&D departments, but in the case of Nissan, most of those are located in Japan. I'd wager that you won't find Nissan recruiting at UM, MSU, or USM for assembly line jobs.  Industrial engineers perhaps, and a few business and accounting grads, but not for 95% of their positions.  The ideal employment pool for Nissan is a not-too-well educated population willing to work at tedious jobs for wages that are only marginally better than the community norm.

I don't even understand what you're suggesting. Do you think that the positioning of an auto assembly plant in a non-university location renders invalid the Thames comment about a university-community-industry synergy?  There is nothing new, revolutionary, or inherently evil about such an idea.  The problem here is that Thames and his sycophants are too incompetent to understand how such relationships are forged.  Shelby and his boys are the academic gang that couldn't shoot straight, and that description holds up whether you take it literally or metaphorically.

quote:

---

Originally posted by: No Thames Cheerleader
" Do you think that the positioning of an auto assembly plant in a non-university location renders invalid the Thames comment about a university-community-industry synergy?  There is nothing new, revolutionary, or inherently evil about such an idea.  The problem here is that Thames and his sycophants are too incompetent to understand how such relationships are forged.  Shelby and his boys are the academic gang that couldn't shoot straight, and that description holds up whether you take it literally or metaphorically."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Edsel Ford
"Dr. Thames knows exactly what he's doing you ignorant putz.  He's well on his way to transforming USM into a clone of MIT.  In fact, I've heard him mention the possibility of changing the name of USM to Mississippi Institute of Technology, a brilliant idea when you consider the instant name recognition we'd have.  I think the name change was originally Dr. Dvorak's idea, and would have been one of her first goals as president.  Envision MIT-Hattiesburg as the hub of a burgeoning Mississippi research corridor, patterned after the original MIT model.  How can that be a bad thing? "

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by: No Thames Cheerleader
" The ideal employment pool for Nissan is a not-too-well educated population willing to work at tedious jobs for wages that are only marginally better than the community norm."

---

You have obviously not toured the Nissan plant and are totally clueless as to what auto plant workers are paid. The starting pay for production-related jobs is $28,000 plus benefits with the average pay being about $40,000. This is more than “marginally better than the community norm.”

Part of the deal to draw Nissan to Mississippi included the establishment of the Center for Advanced Vehicular Systems (CAVS) at Mississippi State University with a branch of CAVS to be located near the Nissan plant: http://www.cavs.msstate.edu/  Another Nissan R&D activity (also not in Japan) includes its partnership with SemiSouth (a MSU spin-off company) to develop and integrate advanced silicon carbide (SiC) power transistors and control circuitry within a compact power module for use in hybrid electric cars and future low-emission electric cars: http://www.semisouth.com/news/atp_pr/atp_announcement.pdf

quote:

---

Originally posted by: No Thames Cheerleader
" Intentionally or not, you are falling prey to the straw man fallacy.  I did not say, suggest, or imply that a 20K  student goal for USM was in and of itself a good thing, or that it was worthy of pursuing at the sacrifice of quality of students, faculty, or overall learning experience. Nor did I say, suggest, or imply that 20,000 students would lure industry to Hattiesburg, or to Gulfport.  You seem to be mounting an argument against something I never said.  USM should concern itself with providing a high quality education and the size of the student body will take care of itself.  I had a conversation with Bobby Khayat several years ago at a time when Ole Miss was bumping up against a 10,000 student census in Oxford.  I facetiously commented that he was probably laying awake at night strategizing over how to break through the 10K barrier.  He gave me a puzzled look, and said that he didn't care of Ole Miss NEVER exceeded ten thousand students, so long as the quality of the university and its students continued to improve.  Shelby should go to school on Khayat's approach. As to the Nissan plant, that example has no relevance at all to my original thesis.  The location of the new Nissan plant in Mississippi and near Jackson was a politically orchestrated deal from the get-go, with many financial concessions sweetening the pot.  It had absolutely nothing to do with access to a university or an educated workforce.  If you're familiar with the auto manufacturing industry, then you know that the bulk of jobs require eye-hand coordination, basic mechanical skills, and a high tolerance for boredom, but nothing in the way of a higher education.  This isn't true of their engineering, design, and R&D departments, but in the case of Nissan, most of those are located in Japan. I'd wager that you won't find Nissan recruiting at UM, MSU, or USM for assembly line jobs.  Industrial engineers perhaps, and a few business and accounting grads, but not for 95% of their positions.  The ideal employment pool for Nissan is a not-too-well educated population willing to work at tedious jobs for wages that are only marginally better than the community norm. I don't even understand what you're suggesting. Do you think that the positioning of an auto assembly plant in a non-university location renders invalid the Thames comment about a university-community-industry synergy?  There is nothing new, revolutionary, or inherently evil about such an idea.  The problem here is that Thames and his sycophants are too incompetent to understand how such relationships are forged.  Shelby and his boys are the academic gang that couldn't shoot straight, and that description holds up whether you take it literally or metaphorically."

---

You sure wrote a shipload in responding to my two simple questions, each of which could be answered with one word:

1. Would industry be attracted here if USM's student population numbered 20,000 rather that its current number? [NO]

2. What large university is located in or near Jackson that caused Nissan to locate there rather than near Hattiesburg, Starkville, or Oxford? [NONE]