Doty farewells? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 11, 2005

Doty farewells?

Date: Apr 11, 2005

Y'all just never give up. Give it a rest.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

There has been no news on this front that I am aware of. I would think that the UNF committee will meet this week and make a decision. We might hear something by Friday, but probably not until next week.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: around the corner
"Several cars arrived throughout the day at the Doty's house (I live in view) yesterday. There were lots of hugs -- the scene when someone's leaving. I guess we may hear soon about the UNF sitiation."

Interesting. Wasn't there a high school prom this weekend?

Date: Apr 11, 2005

I don't think there were any proms going on all Sunday afternoon, which is when I presume the poster is talking about.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

In my town, proms take at least a couple of days for complete recovery

Of course, in my town if there were people out front hugging & everything, the neighbors would come over to see if there was food involved.

(Last time I got sick, 2 little old ladies from the church parked in my driveway with casseroles in case I died...)

Date: Apr 11, 2005

You'd need hugs, too, if you thought your movements, family, and house were being watched 24/7.

A year ago, best instincts quickly prevailed on the FireShelby board when someone or other suggested picketing the president's house. It was pointed out that Mrs. T. has never done anything to deserve that kind of grief. And indeed, to trouble someone's home life after hours is devilish indeed when being on campus is already such a hell.

Those who are sowing discord need to give it a rest. NOW.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Rocket Science Unnecessary
"You'd need hugs, too, if you thought your movements, family, and house were being watched 24/7. A year ago, best instincts quickly prevailed on the FireShelby board when someone or other suggested picketing the president's house. It was pointed out that Mrs. T. has never done anything to deserve that kind of grief. And indeed, to trouble someone's home life after hours is devilish indeed when being on campus is already such a hell. Those who are sowing discord need to give it a rest. NOW. "

Well said R.S.U. People are getting bored and becoming irrational.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

Right. Even if SFT & Co. don't follow the "do unto others" adage . . . we ought to -- although we can practice civil disobedience.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Rocket Science Unnecessary
"You'd need hugs, too, if you thought your movements, family, and house were being watched 24/7. A year ago, best instincts quickly prevailed on the FireShelby board when someone or other suggested picketing the president's house. It was pointed out that Mrs. T. has never done anything to deserve that kind of grief. And indeed, to trouble someone's home life after hours is devilish indeed when being on campus is already such a hell. Those who are sowing discord need to give it a rest. NOW. "

Is someone actually surveiling Doty's house? I thought that post was a joke, like most of the other posts having to do with the COB. If he's really being watched that's really over-the-top Thamesian behavior. I don't approve, M wouldn't approve, and I know that Moneypenny wouldn't approve, so cut it out already.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

I think that once the posters on this board start calling for cessation on a topic, the board might as well shut down. Some may say, "This information is not true," or, "This information is hurtful." How many statements have been posted on this very board that have been proven untrue or could be considered hurtful by someone? Some may say, "This is a CoB thread. Why should we care about this, even if it is true?" Let me remind you that no one outside of the faculty at USM really seems to have a problem with the current situation. There has been no outcry from alumni. There has been no outcry from students of late. There has been no formal visit from the national AAUP organization. There has been no attention from national media since the Glamser/Stringer affair broke. No one really has a reason to care about USM, yet some posters expect them to.

Have you tried to talk to non-USM faculty (faculty at other institutions) about what it's like here? They cannot or will not believe that it's as bad as it is. They think you're exaggerating. Well, that's the same thing that's happening to CoB faculty on this board. They know how screwed up things are in the CoB, yet posters here say that the CoB posters are crazy or ignorant or deluded. Fact is, they are the only ones who know exactly what's going on in the CoB. Unless you're willing to pay attention to the issues that underlie these posts, then you shouldn't expect anyone to give a s**t about your problems at USM or in your college.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Sylvia Trench
"They think you're exaggerating. Well, that's the same thing that's happening to CoB faculty on this board. They know how screwed up things are in the CoB, yet posters here say that the CoB posters are crazy or ignorant or deluded. Fact is, they are the only ones who know exactly what's going on in the CoB. Unless you're willing to pay attention to the issues that underlie these posts, then you shouldn't expect anyone to give a s**t about your problems at USM or in your college."

Really? There are a great many CoB faculty (some of whom are posters) who are doing their part to make the college and the university a better place, are you? How does the blatant rumor mongering out of CoB (or those who want to pin it on CoBers to weaken the perception of the college) help to solve ANY of the widely acknowledged problems at the university such as the lack of shared governance, the drop in tier rankings, and the SACS probation? What I have noted about the CoB rumors for over a year now is that they are not only mean-spirited and nasty, they are irrelevent to the problems that the university is trying to overcome.

Here's my post from another thread:

Have the critics of lower level administrators in the CoB made a public stance against Shelby Thames and his inept dome administration? Have they joined AAUP? Do they serve on college or university wide governance committees? Have they stepped up to leadership positions? Do they offer constructive criticism?

Or do they just criticize, hold long-term grudges, look for dirt, gripe about their salaries, sue each other, and try to manipulate student opinion?

Are they purposely playing into Shelby's hands or just accidently/foolishly doing so?

Date: Apr 11, 2005

Shared governance is an illusion at best. Lucas was a master at making the faculty think they were in control to some extent. In reality, the decision-making process was much the same.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

Sylvia Trench's first post is right on point.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Sylvia Trench
"Shared governance is an illusion at best. Lucas was a master at making the faculty think they were in control to some extent. In reality, the decision-making process was much the same."

Please tell us what you think "shared governance" is. Of course, the power still rest in the hands of the presidents. If a president wants to ignore the input and advice of the faculty he has that right, but he better have good reasons or he will look like a fool if his arguments don't match up to those of the faculty. This is the essence of SFT's failure. He avoids shared governance because his arguments are based on lies that he can't back up with fact. Truth is undermining his power.

Date: Apr 11, 2005

Actually things are probably better in the COB than in any other college. Our only real problem is with one faculty member who bombs the building with email. Sure, we have some disagreements and a few disenfranchised faculty members, but we also have faculty input, shared governance, and open discussions. The level of transparency is the highest it has ever been. It may not be perfect, but it is better than other places on campus.

Date: Apr 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" Please tell us what you think "shared governance" is. Of course, the power still rest in the hands of the presidents. If a president wants to ignore the input and advice of the faculty he has that right, but he better have good reasons or he will look like a fool if his arguments don't match up to those of the faculty. This is the essence of SFT's failure. He avoids shared governance because his arguments are based on lies that he can't back up with fact. Truth is undermining his power."

Reporter--

I think you are right on the money: shared governance is about the "process", not about the "product." Ultimately the chief executive officer is responsible for whatever happens during that administration.

SFT has simply adopted an authoritarian style (I use that word loosely) and said, in essence, "Because I am ultimately responsible, I will consult only with those whose opinions I value." Maybe he thinks this is efficient, and in the short term, maybe it is. But it sure does not lead to any sense of community, team membership, or shared vision.

Of course, the opinions SFT seems to value are those of his toadies and sycophants.

Date: Apr 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Sylvia Trench
"Shared governance is an illusion at best. Lucas was a master at making the faculty think they were in control to some extent. In reality, the decision-making process was much the same."

Shared governance isn't about faculty being in "control." By statute, the president is in "control." In fact, were there not a statutory "locus of control" (to purloin a phrase), it would be impossible for the institution to do much of anything organizationally.

Shared governance is about whether the president actively seeks guidance from faculty (sets up mechanisms to ensure that it occurs), values faculty input & makes decisions based on that input. In other words, the president shares the decision-making process, even though by law, s/he doesn't have to do so.

The whole point is that folks "in the trenches" have valuable insights into how things need to happen. Ignoring that input is very risky & incredibly inefficient, as the presidency of Shelby Thames more than adequately illustrates.

This misconception is that shared governance results in the decisions that any particular individual wants. As ram pointed out, it's about the "process" & not the "product."

Lucas knew that people who believe that their input is valued & has actually been considered in the decision-making process are more likely to get behind ideas, even when those ideas aren't 100% what every individual wanted.

Date: Apr 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: CoBer
"Actually things are probably better in the COB than in any other college. Our only real problem is with one faculty member who bombs the building with email. Sure, we have some disagreements and a few disenfranchised faculty members, but we also have faculty input, shared governance, and open discussions. The level of transparency is the highest it has ever been. It may not be perfect, but it is better than other places on campus."

As a non-COB faculty member, I'd be only too happy if that individual limited his mass email "mail-bombing" just to the COB listserv! These diatribes have been posted to the FACSEN listserv, and he's also "harvested" email addresses, to send to all the USM Faculty.

Date: Apr 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: oldtimer
"
As a non-COB faculty member, I'd be only too happy if that individual limited his mass email "mail-bombing" just to the COB listserv! These diatribes have been posted to the FACSEN listserv, and he's also "harvested" email addresses, to send to all the USM Faculty."

Solution? CNN:com - Judge: Prison time for spammer

Date: Apr 13, 2005

I heard that Doty applied for a dean position in one of the regional universities in Georgia (not the big research universities), and didn't make the final cut.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporting from Afar
"I heard that Doty applied for a dean position in one of the regional universities in Georgia (not the big research universities), and didn't make the final cut."

Likely to be true. Word is that he shotgunned his resume out there this year.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporting from Afar
"I heard that Doty applied for a dean position in one of the regional universities in Georgia (not the big research universities), and didn't make the final cut."

Have no idea whether this is true of not, but it could be. The situation at USM is no secret all over the academic world, even at small, regional schools. And since being a dean or VP here by definition makes one a collaborator, I should imagine a candidate would have to deny support of SFT and gang to have any chance of getting a position. Then, if he/she didn't get the job and word got back?

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: oldtimer
" As a non-COB faculty member, I'd be only too happy if that individual limited his mass email "mail-bombing" just to the COB listserv! These diatribes have been posted to the FACSEN listserv, and he's also "harvested" email addresses, to send to all the USM Faculty. "

While some may feel, “I'd be only too happy if that individual limited his mass email ‘mail-bombing" just to the COB listserv! These diatribes have been posted to the FACSEN listserv, and he's also "harvested" email addresses, to send to all the USM Faculty.”

These repeated “mail-bombings” may serve a real purpose for improving the University. For example, my own perception of Doty from contact with him was that he was one of the good guys, a hard working family man with high ethical standards who was working for the best interests of COB and the University. Through his “mail-bombs”, I have learned that Dean Doty is a conniving, unethical individual causing great damage to the students, faculty and the University.

Through content analysis of his “mail-bombs” I have been able to learn of other individuals within the University who I always perceived a decent, hard working professionals but who are according to the e-mails are unethical, crooks, stupid, mean spirited, or conniving. In his “mail-bombs” he “outed” the following unsavory individuals: Dr. H. Doty, Dean of Cob; Dr. Bill Gunther, former Dean of Cob; Dr. Jim Crocket, Professor of Accounting and former Director of Accounting; Dr. Rod Posey, Director of Accounting and former Associate Dean, Dr. Bob Smith, former Director of Accounting, Dr. Jim Henderson, Professor of Accounting and former Vice-President of Finance; Dr. Paul Torres, retired Professor of Accounting, Dr. Marvin Albin Professor of Accounting; Ms. Patricia Munn Instructor of Accounting, Dr. Stephen Bushardt, Professor of Management and former Graduate Director; Dr. Myron Henry, former Provost; Dr. Flemming, former President; Dr. Clyde Ginn, Former Vice-President for Administrative Affairs; Dr. Robert T. Jackson, Chair of the Grievance Committee and Dr. Lee Gore, Professor of Accounting and Legal attorney for the University. (Conspicuously absent are Dr. Thames and Dr. Malone)

In my dealings with these community leaders I had always found them to be honest, decent individuals but through the “mail bombings” I learned of their nefarious character: Dr. T. Robert Colthorpe, (dog owner); Dr. Carl Nicholson, CPA; Mr. Marvin Breazeale, Sheriff of Lamar County; Ms. Prentiss Harrel, Lamar County Attorney; Judge Anderson and Annie Oakley.

For those readers who do not appreciate the “mail-bombing”, I suspect that you did not fully appreciate Senator Joe McCarthy’s efforts to improve the moral fiber of this country as well.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

Oh would some Power the giftie give us; To see ourselves as others see us

An inability to see oneself through the eyes of others...maybe it's in the water...

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Devil's advocate
" While some may feel, “I'd be only too happy if that individual limited his mass email ‘mail-bombing" just to the COB listserv! These diatribes have been posted to the FACSEN listserv, and he's also "harvested" email addresses, to send to all the USM Faculty.” These repeated “mail-bombings” may serve a real purpose for improving the University. For example, my own perception of Doty from contact with him was that he was one of the good guys, a hard working family man with high ethical standards who was working for the best interests of COB and the University. Through his “mail-bombs”, I have learned that Dean Doty is a conniving, unethical individual causing great damage to the students, faculty and the University. Through content analysis of his “mail-bombs” I have been able to learn of other individuals within the University who I always perceived a decent, hard working professionals but who are according to the e-mails are unethical, crooks, stupid, mean spirited, or conniving. In his “mail-bombs” he “outed” the following unsavory individuals: Dr. H. Doty, Dean of Cob; Dr. Bill Gunther, former Dean of Cob; Dr. Jim Crocket, Professor of Accounting and former Director of Accounting; Dr. Rod Posey, Director of Accounting and former Associate Dean, Dr. Bob Smith, former Director of Accounting, Dr. Jim Henderson, Professor of Accounting and former Vice-President of Finance; Dr. Paul Torres, retired Professor of Accounting, Dr. Marvin Albin Professor of Accounting; Ms. Patricia Munn Instructor of Accounting, Dr. Stephen Bushardt, Professor of Management and former Graduate Director; Dr. Myron Henry, former Provost; Dr. Flemming, former President; Dr. Clyde Ginn, Former Vice-President for Administrative Affairs; Dr. Robert T. Jackson, Chair of the Grievance Committee and Dr. Lee Gore, Professor of Accounting and Legal attorney for the University. (Conspicuously absent are Dr. Thames and Dr. Malone) In my dealings with these community leaders I had always found them to be honest, decent individuals but through the “mail bombings” I learned of their nefarious character: Dr. T. Robert Colthorpe, (dog owner); Dr. Carl Nicholson, CPA; Mr. Marvin Breazeale, Sheriff of Lamar County; Ms. Prentiss Harrel, Lamar County Attorney; Judge Anderson and Annie Oakley. For those readers who do not appreciate the “mail-bombing”, I suspect that you did not fully appreciate Senator Joe McCarthy’s efforts to improve the moral fiber of this country as well. "

does this appear libelous to anyone else?

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Not a Lawyer, but stayed at a Holiday Inn Express
"does this appear libelous to anyone else?"

I think that is Devil's Advocate's point. He/she says these things were learned by reading the mail-bomber's material. I believe he/she is pointing out the fact that, in his/her opinion, the mail bomber is not just a pest, but a danger to the reputations of good people. At least that's my reading of DA's post.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Satan's Defender
"I think that is Devil's Advocate's point. He/she says these things were learned by reading the mail-bomber's material. I believe he/she is pointing out the fact that, in his/her opinion, the mail bomber is not just a pest, but a danger to the reputations of good people. At least that's my reading of DA's post. "
Aaaaaah! Being removed from the situation, I didn't pick up on that.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Satan's Defender
"I think that is Devil's Advocate's point. He/she says these things were learned by reading the mail-bomber's material. I believe he/she is pointing out the fact that, in his/her opinion, the mail bomber is not just a pest, but a danger to the reputations of good people. At least that's my reading of DA's post. "

To many, many good people across multiple administrations but with the conspicuous absence of criticism aimed at the current dome administration!