Hey, remember that Shelby shut down the office of Graduate Admissions and moved the staff around -- there may not actually be anyone out there who can answer your question.

I don't know what the stats are across the university for graduate applications. We have a modest size doctoral program in one of the specialty areas of psychology...about 20 students on campus across 4 years of coursework and another 6 students or so off on internship. As you may know, psychology has several doctoral programs, of which the 3 applied programs (clinical, counseling, and school) are all APA (Amer. Psychological Association) accredited. Most of these programs (certainly ours) recieve a fair amount of national visibility and reputation in terms of faculty publications in top journals, students and faculty receiving national awards and recognition, placing students in top internship progrmams (e.g., Johns Hopkins, etc.) etc.

Our particular doctoral program has actually witnessed about a 30% INCREASE in applications for next fall. And, we recruit and get students from all over the country, not just the region of Miss, Louisiana, etc. We currently have students in the program from Arizona, Connecticut, Michigan, Kentucky, India, Germany, etc.

I'm at a loss to explain our increases in applications. I can't explain it. Maybe it has to do with the national economy. Generally, as the national economy worsens, applications tend to increase. I don't know if this increase is true for our other doctoral programs in the department.....I only know about ours....... The quality of our applicants has remained strong and essentially equivalent to previous years.

It is tough to recruit students (and faculty!!!) to USM. There's a ton of negative stereotypes out there.......and our stipends are not as competitive with many other major state institutions. If we can get students here to interview and "look us over" many of the students from far away (e.g., northeast, midwest, etc.) are pleasantly impressed that, yes, our roads are paved, we do wear shoes, etc.......as I'm sure most of you know, there's quite a bit of regional bias and stereotypes as to what Mississippi is like......the only contact and information many applicants have with Mississippi is what they've seen on T.V. (i.e., Mississippi Burning) and in the media. But, students who do chose to come to our program do so because they want the type of orientation and training philosophy we have.

I strongly suspect many students applying to grad school don't know about our issues with SACS, etc......they SHOULD know.....they should investigate where they're applying......but many simply don't. 

In any event, I just though I'd weigh in on our own particular applicant numbers, which are higher this year.......????

Peter "Ginger" Baker

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Originally posted by: Ginger Baker
"I don't know what the stats are across the university for graduate applications. We have a modest size doctoral program in one of the specialty areas of psychology...about 20 students on campus across 4 years of coursework and another 6 students or so off on internship. As you may know, psychology has several doctoral programs, of which the 3 applied programs (clinical, counseling, and school) are all APA (Amer. Psychological Association) accredited. Most of these programs (certainly ours) recieve a fair amount of national visibility and reputation in terms of faculty publications in top journals, students and faculty receiving national awards and recognition, placing students in top internship progrmams (e.g., Johns Hopkins, etc.) etc. Our particular doctoral program has actually witnessed about a 30% INCREASE in applications for next fall. And, we recruit and get students from all over the country, not just the region of Miss, Louisiana, etc. We currently have students in the program from Arizona, Connecticut, Michigan, Kentucky, India, Germany, etc. I'm at a loss to explain our increases in applications. I can't explain it. Maybe it has to do with the national economy. Generally, as the national economy worsens, applications tend to increase. I don't know if this increase is true for our other doctoral programs in the department.....I only know about ours....... The quality of our applicants has remained strong and essentially equivalent to previous years. It is tough to recruit students (and faculty!!!) to USM. There's a ton of negative stereotypes out there.......and our stipends are not as competitive with many other major state institutions. If we can get students here to interview and "look us over" many of the students from far away (e.g., northeast, midwest, etc.) are pleasantly impressed that, yes, our roads are paved, we do wear shoes, etc.......as I'm sure most of you know, there's quite a bit of regional bias and stereotypes as to what Mississippi is like......the only contact and information many applicants have with Mississippi is what they've seen on T.V. (i.e., Mississippi Burning) and in the media. But, students who do chose to come to our program do so because they want the type of orientation and training philosophy we have. I strongly suspect many students applying to grad school don't know about our issues with SACS, etc......they SHOULD know.....they should investigate where they're applying......but many simply don't.  In any event, I just though I'd weigh in on our own particular applicant numbers, which are higher this year.......???? Peter "Ginger" Baker"

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Dear Ginger:

There is a faculty member in psychology at USM who absolutely loves you! I'll introduce you one day.

Well, I hear that there is another modest graduate psychology program that is doing quite well, thank you. That program has attracted five outstanding junior faculty in three years and is very solid. This has allowed them to continue to attract some really good graduate students in the past two years. Why are all the APA accredited psych grad programs still doing well under some very difficult circumstances (this also includes relatively poor assistantships)? APA psychology programs are very competitive (for us, 6-8 slots each year with 60-100 inquiries), and some programs get over 400 applications for a handful of slots. All grads get reasonably good jobs in an area they enjoy. We recruit students from all over the country, and have a good number of international students. But most do come from the SE region.

We have recruited some great junior faculty in psych this year (Ginger will confirm). My concern is that we develop junior faculty, they learn some sweet licks, and then they are off to greener pastures (Penn State, U Minn, U Neb Med School, and so on). Many of these departures pre-date the Thames era, and a couple were this year or last. The Mississippi experience (broadly defined) just doesn't cut it for many (lack of support for education and health care, poor health benefits, political cronysim, and so on). Sometimes they leave to be closer to family. At least two (one this year and one last year) found the region just too closeminded and parochial (what, us?). It's not just us. Ole' Miss' APA program has had some challenges finding super new faculty (they are a much smaller department), and one of their best mid career faculty moved north a few years ago.

I'd be curious to see if Ginger's and my experinces are similar to other departments'. If a department suffers grave faculty losses in too short a period of time, such as in English, one might make the case that this could affect grad student recruitment, but I haven't seen these data here or elsewhere.

 

  

Alternative Explanation:

I'm not quite sure how to take/interpret your post. Sounds like quite a cheap shot to me....so, unless you can elucidate otherwise, that's how I'm going to take it. I suspect strongly you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, to be sure, our programs in psychology get some applicants each year who apply to us as an "ace in the hole" in case they don't get in elsewhere. However, I can also assure you that our programs in psychology also get students who come into our program after turning down LSU, Alabama, and other such state universities.

You can't always judge the quality of a doctoral program in some of our areas by the university in which it resides. Some big name universities don't even have programs in my specialty area. And, some very highly regarded programs are located in lesser known universities (e.g., Lehigh, U. of South Florida, USM!!!!).

Many students come to our doctoral programs in psychology DESPITE the national reputation (or lack thereof) of USM.......our programs' reputations far surpass the universities in our fields on a national level.

So, I hope your comment was serious and well intentioned, even if naive. I'm willing to bet you know little or nothing about psychology doctoral programs. If you meant your comment in the cutting mean-spirited manner I perceived it, well............ah, never mind, the webmaster/moderator would never let me get away with telling you to kiss...........a baby today......

Ginger  

 

 

 

Ok, if it was meant to be a light hearted post, my bad..........and, yes, I guess I am rather defensive about our programs......but please understand that much of my defensiveness comes from a 20 year learning history whereby we so very often feel we have to defend ourselves from folks we meet from around the country that can't possibly imagine in their wildest dreams that anything of quality could come out of Mississippi. No, we're not the best, but we're certainly no 3rd world country program.........I'll lighten up ....but I also hope that you'll agree to be careful not to post comments that can easily be construed as slams against people's programs that they pretty much give major portions of their time, efforts, careers, and lives....

Have a nice day!

G.B.

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Originally posted by: Ginger Baker
" No, we're not the best "

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But your department is among the best at USM for sure. There's no need to be defensive.

Stephen:

Not a word you posted do I disagree with. This entire exchange began with questions as to whether or not graduate applications are down in numbers. I was simply responding to what is occurring in my department (psychology). I can't fully explain why our numbers are not down.....although I speculated as to some possibilites. And you damn well better believe I FULLY supported Glamser and Stringer. Apparently a number of graduate applicants are simply not aware of what has been going on here.

What has occurred around campus, particularly in COAL is an absolute travesty! Many (probably most!) faculty have devoted much of their careers to their programs.....some of us, for many inexplicable reasons have still fared ok DESPITE  the crap that has been going on......others haven't.....I'm on faculty senate and 110% behind your sentiments and those that we've had to deal with the last 2.5 years.

My post simply was meant to say that the effects on graduate applications is variable and in most cases hard to fully account for.......

Rest assured that I wear a "white hat"......no books for the library.....drop from tier 3 to tier 4......Glamser and Stringer's debacle.......emphasis on "making money" at the expense of education and enlightenment....etc. etc.....need I go on??????

You bet I'm pissed....you bet I'm "with you" in EVERTHING  you said......

Don't misinterpret my post....go back and read the sequence leading up to my several posts on this topic....I was initially simply reporting what has been happening with graduate applications in my program/department.....then I felt I had to defend what I perceived was a "cheap shot"........in retrospect, I guess it wasn't .....my nerves are frayed and I'm a bit (probably a lot!!) overly defensive......I surely didn't intend to ignore or downplay what is and has been going on around campus.......it's unbelieveable.....sometimes I feel as though we're characters in a Kafka novel.................

G.B.

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Originally posted by: ABD
"Ginger-What happened to the I/O program?  Was it canned?  Wasn't it the only I/O program in the state?  Just curious."

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ABD: Perhaps you have the wrong information. I don't think they'd ever let a program like that go under any circumstances. I/O graduates are marketable, highly paid, and neither UM or MSU have a doctoral program in industrial/organizational psychology (unless the USM program has been transferred to Starkville or Oxford). South Mississippi is a natural site for Mississippi's I/O program.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Occuptational Outlook
"ABD: Perhaps you have the wrong information. I don't think they'd ever let a program like that go under any circumstances. I/O graduates are marketable, highly paid, and neither UM or MSU have a doctoral program in industrial/organizational psychology (unless the USM program has been transferred to Starkville or Oxford). South Mississippi is a natural site for Mississippi's I/O program. "

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Admissions to I/O has been suspended, and this was a department decision. This was not at all influenced by the dome or IHL. It is possible that the program will be resurrected, but it will have to be done better than our most recent experience with this area. The previous chair hired an ABD (finished the Ph.D. soon after arriving) to run the program about nine years ago, and the result was disappointing--that person left about three years ago. We have very solid and long-standing doc programs in school, experimental, counseling, and clinical, and having a psychology department of our size with FIVE doc programs (three APA accredited) is very unusual and resource draining. Some universities (e.g., Auburn) have spent a lot to resurrect moribund I/O doc programs, others have considered eliminating them. Tulane has a strong I/O program in the region, and many business schools/colleges have programs that are similar in nature to psych I/O. Bottom line is that it this program would need to be built from the ground up, and the decision to do so should rest primarily with department faculty.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Mitch
"Admissions to I/O has been suspended . . . . The previous chair hired an ABD (finished the Ph.D. soon after arriving) to run the program about nine years ago, and the result was disappointing . . . "

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You're blaming former chair John Alcorn for the demise of the I/O program?

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Originally posted by: Passing the buck
"You're blaming former chair John Alcorn for the demise of the I/O program? "

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Nope, not blaming anyone. I like John a lot and respect him--in fact, he and Charlie Noblin recruited me to USM (Charlie started I/O when he was chair way back when, I beleive). But, in hindsight, it was probably not a good idea to bring in a newly minted Ph.D. to run a program. We had a senior faculty who was great (Ernie Gurman), but Ernie was planning to retire, and the new guy was the heir apparent. I think that if Ernie stuck around, that would have provided some stability and leadership. The sad part is that Ernie passed soon after retirement. He was a white hat. 

There are many factors that contributed to suspension of admissions, and it is probably way too complex and long a story to go into here. I know that some anon board posters like to jump on my posts, as I've said before, and this makes me reluctant to post. However, I did want to clear up the misconception that we don't have an I/O program (it is still on the books), or that the IHL had something to do with the current situation.  

quote:

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Originally posted by: Passing the buck
"A "newly minted" Ph.D. was the heir apparent for a major doctoral program? That's no way to run things. I didn't know Ernest Gurman very well, but I knew him well enough to know that he was experienced in both applied and academic settings before he arrived at USM. When he retired shouldn't he have been replaced by another another senior person rather than an ABD?  "

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PTB:

Hindsight is 20/20, and that is why I won't place blame in this situation. The person who took over was charismatic, well-trained, had tremendous potential, and politicked for the position. Money was tight back then (what else is new), and hiring a senior faculty in I/O would have been very expensive (and back then hiring above the assistant level was very rare). There really weren't a lot of options. So, you are right--hiring an experinced person with a solid track record makes sense in hindsight, but that wasn't how it played out.  

quote:

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Originally posted by: Mitch
"Admissions to I/O has been suspended, and this was a department decision. This was not at all influenced by the dome or IHL. It is possible that the program will be resurrected, but it will have to be done better than our most recent experience with this area. The previous chair hired an ABD (finished the Ph.D. soon after arriving) to run the program about nine years ago, and the result was disappointing--that person left about three years ago. We have very solid and long-standing doc programs in school, experimental, counseling, and clinical, and having a psychology department of our size with FIVE doc programs (three APA accredited) is very unusual and resource draining. Some universities (e.g., Auburn) have spent a lot to resurrect moribund I/O doc programs, others have considered eliminating them. Tulane has a strong I/O program in the region, and many business schools/colleges have programs that are similar in nature to psych I/O. Bottom line is that it this program would need to be built from the ground up, and the decision to do so should rest primarily with department faculty."

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Thanks for the info Mitch.  I knew most if not all the I/O faculty had left USM and I was afraid it was in the same situation Auburn's program is in.  My BS is in Psychology from USM and my Master's is in I/O.  I wanted to get my PhD in I/O at Auburn, but since they had so much trouble keeping faculty, I went another route and am getting a PhD in Management (HRM & Org Change) at Auburn.  So, I understand the situation.