Shifting Focus of USM - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 27, 2005

Shifting Focus of USM

Date: Mar 27, 2005

No one knows. A great deal depends on whether Dr. Thames remains as President, and who replaces him. Also, if you are planning to major in English, do you have any idea of your main area of interest? Some parts of the English department are seriously depleted while some are still ok. We've lost John Donne and William Faulkner, we're losing one Shakespeare person and an 18th century person. This may help inform your decision. A lot depends too, on where you live and how important USM's location is to you.

At least, as an undergraduate, you can transfer somewhere else if it doesn't seem right for you.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

It has already shifted. I can't think of any reason why Arts and Letters would not continute to fall apart other than a new president, and an expert on rebuilding schools takes over.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

Sorry that was "continue".

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"No one knows. A great deal depends on whether Dr. Thames remains as President, and who replaces him. Also, if you are planning to major in English, do you have any idea of your main area of interest? Some parts of the English department are seriously depleted while some are still ok. We've lost John Donne and William Faulkner, we're losing one Shakespeare person and an 18th century person. This may help inform your decision. A lot depends too, on where you live and how important USM's location is to you. At least, as an undergraduate, you can transfer somewhere else if it doesn't seem right for you. "

I enjoy literature printed in the last 100 years for the most part. And I'd like to look into taking some really good creative writing classes, even if I am an undergrad. At least join some of the workshops, either academic or local. I guess the reason I chose USM was the culture (trying to escape the south a little).

Admittedly, I planned on transferring after my sophomore year at USM, but I hoped to gain a good education there. When I visited the College of Arts and Letters, the professors were open about the declining situation there, but seemed really supportive.

I do hope that's still the case, even if the problems are still there?

The reason it all seems immediate is because there's been a lot of talk around the Jackson Metro Area (where I am from) about the status of USM. I think I'm the only senior from Clinton High School's honors/AP program that is enrolling at USM. Most of our seniors are heading towards MSU and Ole Miss, and quite frankly, it's because of the SACS problem. Two years ago, you got a lot of our seniors, and last year, several of our art students went to USM. Now there's just me and maybe one or two other regular students I've heard about here and there.

One parent I talked to feels that the university is going to fall apart any moment now, and there won't be any USM. I think she's probably over reacting, but the environment does seem quite volatile.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Concerned New Student
"I guess the reason I chose USM was the culture (trying to escape the south a little). Admittedly, I planned on transferring after my sophomore year at USM . . I think I'm the only senior from Clinton High School's honors/AP program that is enrolling at USM. Most of our seniors are heading towards MSU and Ole Miss . . "

Concerned New Student,

If your high school classmates are heading towards MSU and Ole Miss, why have you made the decision to go elsewhere? You have evidently been very diligent in obtaining compartive information. And why would you enter with the expressed intent of transfering elsewhere after only two years here? You say you chose USM because of the "culture" (trying to escape the south a little). Why, then, are you headed even further south?

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Concerned New Student
"Perhaps this is a less than appropriate place to address this, but I've been lurking on this board, and really enjoy the blunt honesty of the professors and students here. After doing some research (through searching news, blogs, and websites) I am well aware of the rift between the USM faculty and administration. Through my research, however, I haven't really been able to find definitive answers when it comes to Thames' decision to shift the focus of the university to math and sciences. I'll be entering the College of Arts and Letters in the fall as an English major, and I'm just concerned as to what all of this means for my education in the future. When I decided to come to USM, it was because I had heard such good things about the liberal arts education offered and I thought the diversity would fit me better than the other state schools. Will the emphasis and funding to the liberal arts departments go away in the next few years, in favor of math and sciences?"

In a public forum like this it might be difficult to get a faculty member to tell you directly not to come to USM because there are trolls who might pose as a student to entrap the faculty into making such a statement.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Flytrap
"In a public forum like this it might be difficult to get a faculty member to tell you directly not to come to USM because there are trolls who might pose as a student to entrap the faculty into making such a statement."

I've noticed that the trolls seem to have taken a break during the last few days. Perhaps they are all off at a troll convention somewhere, honing their techniques. Certainly Albert and caterer have brought shame to the whole troll brotherhood (and sisterhood). And we have heard nothing lately from our old friend(s) W.J. Johnson, at least one of whom had a great sense of humor. I had really been looking forward to his personal reminiscences of Shelby Thames, The Man. I guess we will just have to wait for the four-volume illustrated bio.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: disgusted student
"It has already shifted. I can't think of any reason why Arts and Letters would not continute to fall apart other than a new president, and an expert on rebuilding schools takes over. "

For one reason -- because not all units have been targeted and some units retain strong faculty. I'm anguished by the losses of some of our best minds -- but it is not universally true.Neither is it clear that Thames, even if he remains, can completely dismantle Arts and Letters on his own.

II'd say it depends on what you want in an education -- a lot of literature is about resistence in a time of oppression. You might not want to be on the front lines of academia -- on the other hand if you are the kind of person who is looking to cut your teeth and your writing or study of literature in a place where every day you must learn to justify your existence . . . this place might not be so bad. There are fewer and fewer flabby, spoiled minds here. There isn't time or use.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Concerned New Student
" Through my research, however, I haven't really been able to find definitive answers when it comes to Thames' decision to shift the focus of the university to math and sciences. . . .
Will the emphasis and funding to the liberal arts departments go away in the next few years, in favor of math and sciences?"

Where did you get the idea that Mathematics is an area favored by Thames? I'd wager that the man has contempt both for the discipline and the Mathematics faculty.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Mr. Wizard
" Where did you get the idea that Mathematics is an area favored by Thames? I'd wager that the man has contempt both for the discipline and the Mathematics faculty."

It's come out on a previous thread or two that Thames despises math, because proving theorems doesn't bring in the grant or contract bucks.

Robert Campbell

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"I've noticed that the trolls seem to have taken a break during the last few days. Perhaps they are all off at a troll convention somewhere, honing their techniques. Certainly Albert and caterer have brought shame to the whole troll brotherhood (and sisterhood)."

I wonder what happened to Seeker. At least he seemed to listen. He's probably a very nice person.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

Polymer science is not what most students refer to as science either. It is more about plastics, I think. Would some of the professors help with explaining the difference?

Date: Mar 27, 2005

There are plenty of us who would argue that USM isn't changing its focus. It hasn't had very clear focus for years, at least since somebody decided that there was something wrong with being known for teacher education...

One thing for sure -- the Normal ain't normal any more

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Holy Troly
"I wonder what happened to Seeker. At least he seemed to listen. He's probably a very nice person. "

I agree. At least Seeker never ducked a direct challenge, as Albert always did. Albert is probably at a medical center somewhere having his self-respect rebuilt, presumably through spine-strengthening treatments.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: All roads lead to Rome
"Concerned New Student,

If your high school classmates are heading towards MSU and Ole Miss, why have you made the decision to go elsewhere? You have evidently been very diligent in obtaining compartive information. And why would you enter with the expressed intent of transfering elsewhere after only two years here? You say you chose USM because of the "culture" (trying to escape the south a little). Why, then, are you headed even further south?"

I honestly never wanted to go anywhere my classmates were going. They're great people and the other colleges are wonderful, but I would like to go some place that's more fit for me, and I felt that USM was, especially due to its diversity. The reason I cited the fact that my school mates weren't going to USM was because it suprised me, usually more people seem to apply and decide to enroll than that.

Why not enter with the intent to transfer? Hate to sound selfish here, but I think it's pretty justified that I make decisions based on how they will affect me in the future. Do I think the best thing for my life is to graduate from USM with an English major? Maybe it is, but would if I want to go with a biology major? People change their majors all the time, and I'm probably not any different. Shouldn't I move according to my goals, whatever they may be in the future?

As far as seeking out comparative information: I wasn't comparing anything. I was looking at what happened last spring and what's happening now. I'm excited and concerned about going to USM in the fall, and I like to be informed.

I'm a little offended you would be so judgemental, because that is the way you come across. I'm sorry if you suspect that I am a troll, but I am certainly not. And obviously, if I'm wrong about your tone of voice in your repsonse to me, then I am sorry that I made assumptions.

quote:
Originally posted by: Flytrap
"In a public forum like this it might be difficult to get a faculty member to tell you directly not to come to USM because there are trolls who might pose as a student to entrap the faculty into making such a statement."

It wouldn't matter if the faculty told me directly not to come to USM, I'm enrolled and coming, and still happy about it. I just want to know what's happening from a source other than the media. I thought this, and a visit with President Thames (since he claims his door is always open) would be the best place.

Again, I'm not a troll, but I certainly respect the fact that there have been others on here.

quote:
Originally posted by: Mr. Wizard
" Where did you get the idea that Mathematics is an area favored by Thames? I'd wager that the man has contempt both for the discipline and the Mathematics faculty."

That's the implication that I seem to be getting from the media and students. Thanks for clearing up the fact that the math department is taking heat as well.

quote:
Originally posted by: My Opia
"There are plenty of us who would argue that USM isn't changing its focus. It hasn't had very clear focus for years, at least since somebody decided that there was something wrong with being known for teacher education... One thing for sure -- the Normal ain't normal any more "

Perhaps USM isn't changing its focus. I just got the message that USM was a great school for liberal arts, and that's what I'm interested in. However, I've been hearing that the liberal arts area is suffering, and I simply wanted to see what people "in the know" would say about it.

Again, I'm really sorry that I came off as a troll or threatening, but that wasn't my intention.

I also can not fix the indentions, so the whole post looks...interesting.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

Concerned Student:

As someone who is the product of USM's fine English Dept. (or what is left of it now), I feel confident recommending that you take classes at the Center for Writers. If you are interested at all in poetry, you will not want to miss a class with Angela Ball. I can't begin to tell you how much she has inspired me both as a poet and as a teacher. Take any class you can with her! I don't have any experience on the fiction/non-fiction side of things, but Rick and Steven Barthelme come highly recommended from writer friends. They are both widely published and highly respected. Too bad you missed taking a class from DC Berry (who recently retired)...he is an amazing poet and a most unique human being. Of course, if you take entry-level writing classes, you very well may be taught by some of the superb graduate students in the Center. All of them have writing and teaching experience...many also have published their work and have other relevent experience.

Hats off to the Center for Writers for hanging in there and continuing to provide a Tier 1 writing workshop experience at a Tier 4 (unfortunately) school.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

Concerned Student,

You sound like a really wonderful human being (I especially liked the kind and civil way with which you dealt with the possibility of being considered a troll), and USM will benefit from your presence. You sound like exactly the sort of student any professor would love to have in a class; in fact, in your thoughtfulness and civility you remind me of one of my own favorite students at the present. Good luck to you at USM and in later life!

Date: Mar 28, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"I've noticed that the trolls seem to have taken a break during the last few days. Perhaps they are all off at a troll convention somewhere, honing their techniques. ... And we have heard nothing lately from our old friend(s) W.J. Johnson, at least one of whom had a great sense of humor. I had really been looking forward to his personal reminiscences of Shelby Thames, The Man. I guess we will just have to wait for the four-volume illustrated bio."

Dear USMS,

Thank you for inquiring about me. I've just been away on a little Spring Break vacation, a fishing trip sponsored by Mr. Roy Klumb. I hadn't met Mr. Klumb previously, but Dr. Thames was kind enough to arrange an invitation for me. It was great fun, and a good opportunity to do what we in the business world call networking. Dr. Malone and Miz Dvorak went along too. That Mr. Klumb is quite a character. He can really spin a yarn. Unfortunately Dr. Malone was very quiet and seemed depressed most of the week. I think he worries about work way too much. I assured him that things would look up once we get a few graduates of the Economical Development Ph.D. program out in the workforce spreading the good news about Southern.

I haven't forgotten your request for an inside look at my friend Dr. Thames. I promise to send something to you as soon as I put the finishing touches on my address for the D'LO Summer commencement. Now that I think of it, I might be able to kill two birds with one rock here, since I plan to pay tribute to Dr. Thames in my speech. Like most great men he's very humble, so I'll have to be careful not to brag on anything that might embarrass him. Miz Mader has offered to help with my speech and I'm sure she'll know just what I can say about Dr. Thames.

I'll be in touch again soon, and thank you again for asking about me.

Your friend,

W.J. Johnson, Professor of Business and Economical Development

Date: Mar 28, 2005

W.J. (if I may be so bold as to address you so personally), it means a lot to us to have you back "on board" (so to speak). We look forward to more of your unique insights into the mind (such as it is) of Dr. Thames and the accomplishments (such as they are) of his top-flight (speaking non-metaphorically, thanks to the plane) crew of able administrators.

Date: Mar 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Concerned New Student
" One parent I talked to feels that the university is going to fall apart any moment now, and there won't be any USM."

You said your Major is to be English. This morning I took a look at Babbs list affixed to the top of this board and saw that Anne Wallace is leaving that department and will be going to the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. I was unaware of that until this morning.

Date: Mar 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Underground Railroad
"You said your Major is to be English. This morning I took a look at Babbs list affixed to the top of this board and saw that Anne Wallace is leaving that department and will be going to the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. I was unaware of that until this morning."

Yes, USM's English Department is bound to be hurting at this point. By my own count (add others if I miss anyone), here's who's left (or is planning to leave) the dept. since Shelboo took over the presidency:

Gary Stringer
Noel Polk
Anne Wallace
David Berry
David Wheeler
Mary Robison
Mary Villeponteaux
Kim Herzinger
Tamara Harvey
Jeanne Ezell
Susan Malone

That's almost half the department (or at least one third, depending on how you count it). Sad, sad times for USM's English Dept.

Date: Mar 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" Yes, USM's English Department is bound to be hurting at this point. By my own count (add others if I miss anyone), here's who's left (or is planning to leave) the dept. since Shelboo took over the presidency: Gary Stringer Noel Polk Anne Wallace David Berry David Wheeler Mary Robison Mary Villeponteaux Kim Herzinger Tamara Harvey Jeanne Ezell Susan Malone That's almost half the department (or at least one third, depending on how you count it). Sad, sad times for USM's English Dept. "

Can someone do a quick annotation on each one of these folks (rank, former dept chair and major area of emphasis/focus). Also number years at USM, if known. I think THIS is the kind of information that Ruben Mees needs -- because this is where we can show that what is going on is not just attrition of raw numbers of assistant professors moving up the ladder or moving out. This is sernior faculty, major contributors, major scholars, or people rapidly on the upcurve who are leaving. THIS is the meat --- the quality -- that cannot be easily replaced.

Date: Mar 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"Can someone do a quick annotation on each one of these folks (rank, former dept chair and major area of emphasis/focus). Also number years at USM, if known. I think THIS is the kind of information that Ruben Mees needs -- because this is where we can show that what is going on is not just attrition of raw numbers of assistant professors moving up the ladder or moving out. This is sernior faculty, major contributors, major scholars, or people rapidly on the upcurve who are leaving. THIS is the meat --- the quality -- that cannot be easily replaced. "

And let me add -- in many cases did not need to be replaced . . . were not looking to be replaced . . . until what has happened in the last few years either forced them to change or caused them to change.

Date: Mar 29, 2005

Isn't the IHL capable of learning? When will this exodus stop? USM seems to be crumbling like a piece of bread soaking in the middle of a big lake.

I never subscribed to the conspiracy theory, but I am on the verge of changing my mind.

Date: Mar 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" Yes, USM's English Department is bound to be hurting at this point. By my own count (add others if I miss anyone), here's who's left (or is planning to leave) the dept. since Shelboo took over the presidency: Gary Stringer Noel Polk Anne Wallace David Berry David Wheeler Mary Robison Mary Villeponteaux Kim Herzinger Tamara Harvey Jeanne Ezell Susan Malone That's almost half the department (or at least one third, depending on how you count it). Sad, sad times for USM's English Dept. "

Shouldn't Lisa Langstraat (sp) be added to that list?

Date: Mar 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Yet another
"Shouldn't Lisa Langstraat (sp) be added to that list?"

I thought of her, but couldn't remember exactly when she left. Also, Julie Lindquist (who figured into the Stringer/Glamser "trial" if you remember). Basically, the entire Rhetoric/Composition team left USM, and now USM no longer offers this concentration, to my knowledge (someone correct me if I'm wrong). This is a HUGE field right now for grad studies in English, so this was a huge loss for the USM English Dept.

Also, I can't stress enough how devastating the loss of Susan Malone and Jeanne Ezell was to the Eng. Dept. Susan was probably the largest grant-getter (along w/Gary Stringer) in the dept., and was also a reviewer for the US Dept. of Ed grants, etc. Jeanne ran the presitigious Summer Writing Institute for high school teachers (can't remember if that's the correct name)...I don't even know if this exists anymore at USM. Also, Jeanne was a personal mentor of mine when I was teaching Advanced Grammar to secondary ed./English majors...she was a true gem. She took up so much of her time making sure that I had support to teach that class, and she got no official credit for it whatsoever. She just did it because it was the right thing to do. I'm sure the English Dept. sorely misses her.

It's just too much to think about sometimes...