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Post Info TOPIC: Faculty member criticizes faculty members
Mitch

Date:
RE: RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty members
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: madegret
"Angeline, no you're not feeding a troll.  I am a person privy to the private business and administration conversation and what I can tell you is that no one I have contact with has ever attacked someone's intelligence, manner of livelihood, etc.  No word that would require a "*$%#@" to exclude it from being foul has been used.  They do have disagreements with your views, but no blatant "meanness." "

Dear Madegret:


I serve in an administrative capacity at USM, but I am also an active researcher, teach some, and my family (wife) is involved in small business activities locally. I have not had the good fortune that you have had. I have seen rude, derogatory, and just plain old mean behavior all around, including folks at all levels at USM (from students on up), the college board, and community folks who I know love USM. Not everyone engages in this behavior, of course, and no one does it all the time. I am certainly more than capable of dishing out a solid serving of sarcasm (no need for any amens from my colleagues), and I have also been on the receiving end of some pretty nasty behavior. So, I have to respectfully disagree with you that any one "group" has a monopoly on civil or uncivil behavior. But your post does serve to remind me that I need not allow anger or frustration to sow the seeds of hatred.        



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Two's company

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I've seen only two such letters to the editor in the HA from USM faculty members, including the one that appeared today. The other one appeared some months ago. I interpret both of them as taking a similar stand. Both were from COEP. I find it encouraging that there have been only two.

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Rod_Sterling

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"Google Dr. Kazelskis and his wife Carolyn Reeves Kazelskis, and all will be explained. They are the two strongest supporters of Dana Thames left on that campus save departed faculty member Dr. Mark Richmond who's wife Beth has somehow found her way into a no-search faculty position in CISE (via Barksdales, but those days are gone).
What RK thinks about faculty behavior is a joke considering his own.
 "


If you want more search fun, go to www.usm.edu and click on the SOAR icon. Click on "Guest" and then "Schedule of classes." Do an advanced search, entering "Kazelskis", "Reeves" or "Reeves Kazelskis." You won't find either Richard or Carolyn teaching any classes.

It really angers me that someone who teaches no classes and gets a hefty bonus for doing so feels that they are in a position to call me "elitist." Richard is a member of the knighted royalty of the Thames feifdom. Hail Richard!




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John Q. Eagle

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quote:
Originally posted by: Rod_Sterling
"It really angers me that someone who teaches no classes" 
Teaches no classes? I find that hard to believe. At most universities, and surely it is also true at USM, even deans, VP's and president teach an occasional class. And this "no classes" assignment was actually approved by the dean's office?

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Mitch

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quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"Message to Mitch,   I agree as you stated above that everyone is entitled to one’s own opinion and the freedom to express it.  It’s unfortunate that a faculty member from your department is attacking other faculty members (across our campus) by declaring them elitist because they are in favor of shared governance and a voice on input into the academic offerings of our university.  It’s also unfortunate when this one individual is known to have benefited from the Thames regime via the Midas program and beholding enough to writing his letter to the editor (in favor of the continue reign of SFT).  Does this individual believe that this institution is better off with another four years of SFT?  Do you?   Mitch, as you were asked in an above post, I too, encourage you as a member of your academic unit to voice your previously printed remarks from this thread into a letter to the editor."

Dear GH:


Correction. Dr. K is not in my department. I am affiliated with the clinical psychology program in the department of psychology. Dr. K is in ELR.


Full Disclosure. I will receive a relatively small MIDAS check (I believe) some time during my present NIH funding period (it is a competive R-21 from the NIAAA). This, however, makes me "beholden" to no one at USM. I take the opposite view. My notion is that the institution and community should be beholden to me and my colleagues for successfully attracting over $1,000,000 in external funding to this area. If this sounds somewhat narcissistic, let's view it from another perspective. Many of the best funded researchers I know, from U Chicago to U Penn, take a very business-like approach to their wares. If not treated right at one institution, they find a bidder at another who will do so.


Mind reading department. I have no idea what Dr. K's motivation or thinking might be.


   



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ram

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: madegret
" I am a person privy to the private business and administration conversation and what I can tell you is that no one I have contact with has ever attacked someone's intelligence, manner of livelihood, etc.  No word that would require a "*$%#@" to exclude it from being foul has been used.   "

madegret--


We can all only speak from out own experience.  I have no doubt that you have not heard the kind of language that you describe, but I have.


Personally, I think the term "elitist" has been used as a pejorative. Consider that the president once labeled two of his respected faculty as "criminals."  I think that words like "liberal" and comparisons between the "ivory towers" and "the real world" are code words meant to belittle the faculty and shore up the administration as being meritorious by distinction.  High class name-calling is just name-calling, nonetheless.


I can't help but think that the forum may affect the language used, also.  I think it would be an unfortunate comparison to consider the discussion on this board, for example, relative to letters to the editor or more formal discussions we might have with business associates. It has been my experience that we tailor our tone to fit the audience.  Until recently, I used to lurk on Eagletalk regularly.  Many (but certainly not all) of those posters were perfectly happy to use the more common, asterisk-laden terms to talk about the faculty.


I don't have a lot of contact with the university administration, but even I have heard one of them use very inappropriate language to ridicule the faculty as a whole.  Unfortunately, I cannot describe the specific circumstances without "outing" myself. But I'm not trying to prove anything here, just provide another point of view and a slightly different experience, I guess.


 



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row faster, Ben Hur

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Kazelskis is representative of the kind of faculty member and the kind of university Shelby envisions. A university with faculty whose prime concern is generating income for the university and who view students as an impediment to their income generation.


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Sad to be leaving

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quote:

Originally posted by: Mitch
" If not treated right at one institution, they find a bidder at another who will do so.  "


Mitch, forgive me for quoting you somewhat out of context to make a connection to the retirement thread.


Most faculty consider themselves in a national market, even if they have a regional or local preference.  The same successes that make an assistant professor tenurable make that faculty member marketable.  When faculty members choose to stay in Southern Mississippi, they do so knowing that they are making a sacrifice salary-wise.  That sacrifice, for many, has been worth it because of a quality of life here.  That quality of life recognizes a value system and a certain amount of tradition.  However, when many in the community refer to us (frankly due to the perpetuation of the Thames propaganda campaign against faculty) as "lazy whiners" (and probably "liberals" from "somewhere else" besides), we leave for better universities at higher pay. 


It's a shame.  Message to community members who have been reading the board:  Many of us came here to be your friends and your neighbors and your teachers.  We sacrificed to be here because we thought we could make a difference and because we thought the community wanted us.  Our children don't have to go to schools in trailers.  We don't have to accept below national, regional, or even state salaries.  We don't need the stigma of being associated with a 4th tier school on academic probation.


Shelby Thames is a home-town boy.  He is currently making a practice of hiring the same.  There is a reason that in-breeding is frowned upon in science, religion, and law.  Before too long, you'll find out why it's frowned upon in academe.


We don't expect you to "get it" because academia is not your field but we do expect that the leadership of a university would.  Unfortunately at USM, they don't.



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Flo's housecat

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USM School of Nursing is the canary in the coal mine (metaphor alert).  SFT chooses to ignore the messenger bird, sends more workers in to the coal mine with fewer exits and no hard hats (who needs OSHA standards, what prima donnas these workers have become!)  announcing to press that coal mine has grown to accomodate more workers, fewer canaries, and is one of his proudest accomplishments. (note to Lisa:  see if biology can use ex-canaries in labs). 

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Oh My

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quote:
Originally posted by: Mitch
"My notion is that the institution and community should be beholden to me and my colleagues"
The townspeople will love this one.

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COAL miners daughter

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Flo's housecat
"USM School of Nursing is the canary in the coal mine.........."
But Gary and Frank were the first canaries in the COAL mine!

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Not Proper Quote

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Oh My
"The townspeople will love this one."

Oh My, you didn't use ellipses in your very poor quote.  The sentence was: "My notion is that the institution and community should be beholden to me and my colleagues for successfully attracting over $1,000,000 in external funding to this area."


And your butchered quote was:  "My notion is that the institution and community should be beholden to me and my colleagues"


Why don't you seek truth?  Why do you create misinformation? 


You owe Mitch an apology.


 



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Mitch

Date:
Permalink Closed


quote:

Originally posted by: Sad to be leaving
""


I am sad that we are losing three oustanding early-mid career scholars from our college: Drs. Alber, Christ, and Feldman.


STL, I will use your post as a jumping off point discuss another post that indicated we were simply employees, and should get used to the notion.


Yes, we are employees, and we all have "bosses." However, the nature of employment as a university faculty is much different than my pre-academia blue collar employment as a service technician for a electronics company. Here's some examples how for non-faculty reading this board.


1. Faculty employment is not 9-5. We all take work home at night and weekends, or come to the office to work, or are on the road working. My blue collar job day ended at 5, and that was that. Weekends were mine, and any time beyond that was time and a half or double time pay..   


2. Faculty are expected to be expert in unique, important, and creative areas. When I was a techie, millions of people across the globe could do what I did. As a university prof, there are maybe a couple of hundred people in the world that are expert in my area. And it is an area that others beside me consider to be useful and important.


3. As a techie, I drew a paycheck. As a faculty, I bring in, on average, a hundred thousand dollars a year in "new business" to the "company." Unlike a salesperson, I don't receive a commission for this. 


I was faculty in a medical school before I came to USM. Why is this relevant? Here's why. I worked side by side with other profs who had an MD rather than a PhD (all of us were licensed health care providers). The time and effort to attain both doctorates is equivalent. MDs in the 'burg often net in excess of $400,000. Ph.D. faculty at USM earn about 1/5-1/10 that amount. As with PhDs, MDs are often employees of various entities, such as FGH. When I was on medical school faculty, a statement by the bosses or community to accept your lot when displeased with the workplace would have been seen as ludicrous by the MDs. Why is it that so many of those outside the university see great value in, and respect, the JD or MD, but not the PhD employee?     



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Mitch

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Not Proper Quote
" Oh My, you didn't use ellipses in your very poor quote.  The sentence was: "My notion is that the institution and community should be beholden to me and my colleagues for successfully attracting over $1,000,000 in external funding to this area." And your butchered quote was:  "My notion is that the institution and community should be beholden to me and my colleagues" Why don't you seek truth?  Why do you create misinformation?  You owe Mitch an apology.  "

No apolology is necessary. Let me tell you why. Whether one brings in external funding or not, I do believe that most USM scholars are greatly undervalued with respect to the marketplace, and that the community should be extraordinarily grateful (if not beholden) that they are here (but, according to recent news reports, this does not always seem to be the case). This community would be so much the poorer (literally and figuratively) without the USM faculty. Futhermore, no scholar here or at any other institution of higher learning in this country should ever feel that they are beholden to that institution. We may appreciate and respect the people we work with and those that we report to, and have a strong affection for the institution. We may give our time, support, and money back in appreciation. But we should never be beholden to any institution or person at that institution.


Several of my colleagues have suggested that opportunities for face to face meetings between community and faculty leaders who all love USM may help heal what is becoming a nasty town/gown split. I concur on this point. We need the community's support to do our jobs well, and the community needs USM faculty to stay and develop careers here. There is no other choice but to find common ground.



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USM Sympathizer

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Some of the posts on this thread are among the best I have read on this board.  Thanks to Mitch, ram, and Sad to be leaving for some fine thoughts well expressed.  I really do hope that Mitch will share some of his thoughts with the wider public through the HA.  I am also very glad that he is posting again.

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History

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Two's company
"I've seen only two such letters to the editor in the HA from USM faculty members, including the one that appeared today. The other one appeared some months ago. I interpret both of them as taking a similar stand. Both were from COEP. I find it encouraging that there have been only two. "
Who was the other from, Kuczaj?

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qwerty

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RE: RE: RE: RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty
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quote:
Originally posted by: John Q. Eagle
"Teaches no classes? I find that hard to believe. At most universities, and surely it is also true at USM, even deans, VP's and president teach an occasional class. And this "no classes" assignment was actually approved by the dean's office?"


You must be in the humanities. In the hard sciences, health-related fields, and social sciences where significant grant funding exists, top researchers can go years without teaching a course in the classroom--grants buy their time. Most of their teaching is done in the lab with graduate students learning by doing. If they do enter the classroom it is a graduate seminar. One might object to this, but it is a rational allocation of the scarce time of leading scholars.

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Zoro

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RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty members
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quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050325/OPINION03/503250328/1014/OPINION"

The group of faculty referred to here is 95% of the faculty senate which is elected to represent the entire faculty. Based on the faculty wide vote of no confidence, over 90% of the faculty view the president to be doing a poor job. In view of the SACS probation, the departure of over 200 faculty members, the drop to tier four, the change in provosts every year, the inflated enrollment report, and the nose dive in nursing pass rates, it's a reasonably safe bet to say that the faculty is on target when they view the emperor as having no clothes (Metaphor alert!). The small group of faculty out of touch with main stream academe are those who are not among the 90-95% cited above.

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Two's company

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quote:
Originally posted by: History
"Who was the other from, Kuczaj?"
I don't recall the name. All I recall is the college.

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John Q. Eagle

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty
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quote:




Originally posted by: qwerty
"You must be in the humanities."


I'm not in the humanities. But if I were in the humanities I'd expect the same teaching load rules to apply as exist in the sciences.


 "If they do enter the classroom it is a graduate seminar."


Teaching a graduate seminar is teaching. That's what most productive researchers do unless they request otherwise (many productive researchers like to teach undergraduates and the top departments often put their best faculty members into undergraduate courses). I've had many semesters teaching only a seminar.


 "One might object to this"


I have no idea why you think I would object to this.


The fact remains that most chairs, deans, provosts, presidents, and top researchers do teach at least occasionally, even if only one course per academic year and even if that one course is a seminar. I'm referring to lst tier schools. I don't know what the policy is at USM it changes so frequently.





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Amy Young

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RE: RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty members
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quote:
Originally posted by: I think he has a point
"You guys are sort of...working agsint the upper crust as opposed to trying to work with him.

Upper crust? Is that suggesting that SFT is "better" in some way? We have tried to work with him for nearly 3 years. It is not working, it's getting worse, we are on SACS probation.

I understand the whole IHL perspective. But truthfully, there is not a lot you can do. The sooner you guys accept the fact that at the end of the day, you are not much more than employees of USM and SFT, the better.

I thing this attitude, that we are interchangeable parts that can be easily replaced with someone cheaper suggests that we are not part of a university team. Can you exchange any single baseball player with any other baseball player and still have an effective team?

Work with your surroundings, not against.

Dr. K is just pointing out his views. "


He has that right.

Amy Young

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quislings

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Two's company
"I've seen only two such letters to the editor in the HA from USM faculty members, including the one that appeared today. The other one appeared some months ago. I interpret both of them as taking a similar stand. Both were from COEP. I find it encouraging that there have been only two. "


I believe the other may have been by Warren Ortloff. He and his wife, Luz Marina Escobar--who did her best to ingratiate herself to the administration, netting a much-undeserved Midas raise for it, while hanging her colleagues out to dry--are munching sand in Qatar, or some other such Middle Eastern tourist resort.

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Joe Olmi

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Mitch
" I am the Associate Dean in the college in which Dr. Kazeskis holds his appointment. Although he has a right to publish his position on the matter, I do disagree with Dr. K on several points. First, I think that labeling faculty who disagree with the IHL or other administrative enitities as "elitist" serves no purpose and can shut down dialogue on issues that are very important to the future of this university. Second, every time a writer draws a distinction between "the faculty" and "the administration" with respect to governace involvement (that is, that faculty should butt out), a serious myth is perpetuated--that a university can and should be run without the input and the significant good works of faculty and staff. Third, all human beings, including administrators, business people, and faculty, are capable of mistakes and misjudgments. Openness to feedback can play an important role in correcting course or avoiding pitfalls if systems are in place to make use of this feedback. Accordingly, demanding that folks keep opinions (right or wrong) to themselves is a formula for disaster. Fourth, administrators are faculty, albeit with greater personnel authority and access to purse strings. Therefore, the most important quality someone with administrative duties and authority needs is to be cognizant that they are first and foremost a peer among peers.       I've sort of given up on posting to this site, because anonymous posters always seem to pile on with personal attacks after I post. However, I believe that I would have been remiss to not express my disagreement with the content of Dr. Kazelskis' letter, though I unequivocally support his right and obligation to free expression on this topic, including this venue.  "

Mitch,


Your points are well received. I fully concur with each of them and also support and encourage your continued posts to this site.


Joe



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Robert Campbell

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty
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quote:
Originally posted by: qwerty
" You must be in the humanities. In the hard sciences, health-related fields, and social sciences where significant grant funding exists, top researchers can go years without teaching a course in the classroom--grants buy their time. Most of their teaching is done in the lab with graduate students learning by doing. If they do enter the classroom it is a graduate seminar. One might object to this, but it is a rational allocation of the scarce time of leading scholars. "

qwerty,


My undergraduate degree is from a Tier 1 institution; my graduate degree is from an institution that's currently around the cusp of Tier 1 and Tier 2.  I work at a Tier 2 institution.


Even at Harvard, where all senior faculty are expected to be top researchers in their fields,  few teach no classes at all.  At the University of Texas, very few teach no classes at all; only a small minority never teach undergrads.  At Clemson, the only faculty members who do no teaching are "Research Professors," who are supposed to be paid entirely out of the proceeds of grants (I said "supposed" because the rules are occasionally broken), or researchers who are paid entirely out of "Public Service Activity" resources (a declining system of subsidies for Ag research that has a counterpart at Miss State, but not at USM).  I have one colleague in my (social science) department who buys out half his teaching time each year; that pattern is still quite unusual at Clemson.


Meanwhile, USM in its heyday was a Tier 3 institution; Thames has pounded it down into Tier 4.


And if the people whose lack of teaching assingments has been a subtopic of this thread are really top researchers in their fields, I've yet to see any evidence presented.  Without such evidence, I'm inclined to draw the same conclusion that other posters have--namely that the zero teaching loads are a political payoff from Shelby F. Thames.


Robert Campbell


 


 



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dictionary

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RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty members
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Mitch's post is wonderfully sensible. Another point to raise: The American Heritage dictionary defines elite as "a narrow and powerful clique." So let's see, there is the administration most of whom have been hired without any oversight or review. There is also a group of ten business people out of the many hundreds who constitute the ADP. By any definition of the word elite, then, both the gang of ten and the administration would constitute an elite.

By contrast, not once but three times, the overwhelming majority of the entire faculty either through representative elected bodies or through their own vote have voiced disastifaction with this "narrow and powerful clique."

The letter writer may believe whatever he chooses but the english language is rather strict when it comes to the matter of definition. And called by any other name and elite is still the one's in power insofar as they are a minority of the vested interests in a given social group or institution.

If he likes the current elite. Fine. But call a thing what it is. Don't please lie and abuse the language we still have in common.

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dont never need no teachin

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As to the letter writer not teaching, lets not forget that Grimes, our beloved provost, and hence chief academic officer has never taught an actual class in his life after being a ta two thousand years ago.

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Reporter

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty
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quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
" ... And if the people whose lack of teaching assingments has been a subtopic of this thread are really top researchers in their fields, I've yet to see any evidence presented.  Without such evidence, I'm inclined to draw the same conclusion that other posters have--namely that the zero teaching loads are a political payoff from Shelby F. Thames. Robert Campbell    "

Robert, I think the situation here is that these faculty are being bought-out by grant funding.  However, at USM "money is money" and the administration counts grants for "contractual service" as "research funding".  Thus the emphasis for "applied" anything.  Faculty in Math are "encouraged" to do "applied" math = science to get money, people in science are "encouraged" to do "applied" science = engineering to get money.  And so on engineering do technology etc. So you won't see these faculty as "top researches" in their filed, for the most part.   If faculty start down such a road too early in their careers, then they end up with few publications in the major journals in the field, but more in the applied low tier journals related to their discipline.  It the long run these faculty lose the ability to leave USM and remain in the same discipline. 



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Consider the Source

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RE: Faculty member criticizes faculty members
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1.
THE ELEMENTARY READING ATTITUDE SURVEY: FACTOR INVARIANCE ACROSS GENDER AND RACE

 
Publication:
Reading Psychology

 
Authors:
RICHARD KAZELSKIS, DANA THAMES, CAROLYN REEVES

 
Publisher:
Routledge, part of the Taylor & Francis Group

 
Recency:
Volume 25, Number 2/April-June 2004

 
Excerpt:
The Elementary Reading Attitude Survey (ERAS) is purported to measure attitude toward recreational and academic reading. The present study examined the validity of this two-factor model across gender and race. Since measurement results are often group specific, factor invariance cannot be assumed, but ...


Husband, Wife, & Dana surely make some "team." No wonder he wrote the letter. I bet Daddy sent him a personal check just for it. And the no-teaching? Well does DT teach either?

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Kick

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Kick to remind those who should write letters.

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Arnold

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quote:
Originally posted by: dont never need no teachin
"As to the letter writer not teaching, lets not forget that Grimes, our beloved provost, and hence chief academic officer has never taught an actual class in his life after being a ta two thousand years ago."


Can some one verify this? Scientist or no, this is appalling. He should not be an academic officer if he hasn't taught as a professional.

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