A Sobering Thought - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 21, 2005

A Sobering Thought

Date: Mar 21, 2005

My take on the situation is this: SFT will be remembered, oh yes, but only for a rift he managed to create between the faculty and the administration, between the faculty and the community, between members of the community. He is the great divider, and that will be his legacy.

Date: Mar 21, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"I had such a sad conversation with someone yesterday. This person is feeling the effects of the USM situation ripple through their church and social life. Speaking of a particular Thames Crony who is active in this congregation, my friend said, in effect "I don't know what to do. I know what my priority should be (to be a brother or sister in Christ) but I'm having trouble with it." The person will forgive my paraphrase of their remarks. We've often commented on the way the Resistance has brought people together and formed new and sometimes unlikely friendships, taught new levels of respect across disciplines, and build a stronger and more united faculty than USM has ever seen. But there is another side. What relationships have been destroyed? How are you folks dealing with the personal and social fall-out from this mess? How has it affected our lives in unforeseen ways? I'm not trying to be "negative" and I don't want anyone to get too detailed or give any personal information (that goes without saying) but yesterday's conversation has really weighed on my heart."

I know exactly how your friend feels. I've had to adopt multiple personas (on this message board) , in order to preserve valued friendships with faculty colleagues. I'm as rabidly anti-Thames as anyone in town, but I'm a Conservative-Libertarian, hard science discipline, pro-business and technology type. Early on in the Thames dictatorship, I discovered that in discussions with certain of my colleagues, they became uncharacteristically hostile when areas were addressed in which I failed to agree "down the line" with their particular social and political philosophy. This was unsettling to me, as we'd peacefully and respectfully coexisted for years with a complete absence of acrimony. I recall one discussion in which a good friend became apoplectic when I failed to agree that the Thames regime was part of the infamous "vast right wing conspiracy." That's when I decided to modify my modus operandi. I am as vocally, and actively anti-Shelby as anyone here, but I do not engage in discussions that attempt to connect Thames and the IHL with any particular social or political philosophy. When I post my contrarian views on this board, it is under a variety of screen names specifically intended to cloak my identity, and preserve my long standing friendships. When Shelby is gone, and he will be, I do not wish to be saddled with grudges born of his presidency, exacerbated by words spoken in anger either by me, or by well intentioned old friends.

Date: Mar 21, 2005

After it hit the fan last spring I have been hiding under my desk at work and crawled in the cellar at home. It gets interesting to be alienated both at work and off work. I now take frequent vacations to New Orleans.

Date: Mar 21, 2005

Though I am probably somewhere left of Teddy Kennedy, I have many good and close friends on the other side of the political aisle. Do I disagree with them? Yes. Do I debate issues with them? Yes. Do we hate each other? No. It IS still possible to disagree without being disagreeable. I do have a real disdain for those who would put their foot on the neck of civil liberties, but I find that my friends who voted for "the other side" and I still find ourselves more in agreement than in disagreement.

To take off on another thread here just a tad, opinions are borne of perspective. I have little regard for uninformed opinion, as do most of those whose posts I've read. But, it is possible for informed people to reach different conclusions. Your friend (sad) should not confuse the argument with the person, insofar as that is possible. Acrimony solves nothing. If the other party is acrimonious, then perhaps it is not possible to be their "friend." Higher purposes are served by higher ideals of behavior.

Date: Mar 21, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
"Though I am probably somewhere left of Teddy Kennedy, I have many good and close friends on the other side of the political aisle. Do I disagree with them? Yes. Do I debate issues with them? Yes. Do we hate each other? No. It IS still possible to disagree without being disagreeable. I do have a real disdain for those who would put their foot on the neck of civil liberties, but I find that my friends who voted for "the other side" and I still find ourselves more in agreement than in disagreement. To take off on another thread here just a tad, opinions are borne of perspective. I have little regard for uninformed opinion, as do most of those whose posts I've read. But, it is possible for informed people to reach different conclusions. Your friend (sad) should not confuse the argument with the person, insofar as that is possible. Acrimony solves nothing. If the other party is acrimonious, then perhaps it is not possible to be their "friend." Higher purposes are served by higher ideals of behavior."

Thanks for another one of your typically civil and thoughtful posts, David. You will be missed when you depart for The Republic of Texas.

Date: Mar 21, 2005

Thanks for a good post, David. However, in this situation, it's not just about differences of opinion. It's about having to kneel at the altar or pass the grape juice or say the prayers (or be on the school committee, or be related by marriage) to people you think have done active harm, who have definitely aligned themselves on the "wrong" side -- I just wondered if my friend's experience was unusual, or if this sort of poison (and it is nothing less) has spread throughout and how we were handling it. I know these sorts of situations occur with politics, but ours is a more personal, in-your-face deal here at USM.

Date: Mar 21, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"Thanks for a good post, David. However, in this situation, it's not just about differences of opinion. It's about having to kneel at the altar or pass the grape juice or say the prayers (or be on the school committee, or be related by marriage) to people you think have done active harm, who have definitely aligned themselves on the "wrong" side -- I just wondered if my friend's experience was unusual, or if this sort of poison (and it is nothing less) has spread throughout and how we were handling it. I know these sorts of situations occur with politics, but ours is a more personal, in-your-face deal here at USM."

Third Witch -- I also had a haunting thought today about how divided this entire town has become in the last 3 years. It is difficult for me to wonder if this can be fixed -- or how long it will take. This argument over oneman has exposed all of the distrust and lack of understanding between some elements of the community and the faculty. The bond and the poor way it was handled has (not caused) but exacerbated racial and class issues in town; the university has inserted itself squarely into the mayor's race; many of the faculty feel that elements of the community are hostile to them and on this basis alone may no longer feel "at home" here. All of this over one man.

Date: Mar 22, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" Third Witch -- I also had a haunting thought today about how divided this entire town has become in the last 3 years. It is difficult for me to wonder if this can be fixed -- or how long it will take. This argument over oneman has exposed all of the distrust and lack of understanding between some elements of the community and the faculty. The bond and the poor way it was handled has (not caused) but exacerbated racial and class issues in town; the university has inserted itself squarely into the mayor's race; many of the faculty feel that elements of the community are hostile to them and on this basis alone may no longer feel "at home" here. All of this over one man. "

One reason for all of this, Stephen, is that SFT is a home town boy. Just think of people who see the logic of what the faculty are saying, but have close family or friendships ties to the Thames family. What are they to do? I wonder if the "business leaders" meeting at the Paving Co. really felt free to do otherwise considering their positions. What do you do when "the man" calls in the chips?

Date: Mar 22, 2005

i too experience the difficulty third witch's friend discussed. it makes me look at people differently and avoid contact with some who i know to be vehemently pro Thames. however, there has always been a town/gown divide, at times better at times worse. we moved here in 1980 from new orleans (both tenured tulane faculty at that time, a respected position in new orleans) and in the general community were met with "oh, you're at the college" and dismissed. this was not true of neighbors and some others, but the general attitude was oh, you're not one of us. gradually over the years we have become part of the larger community and in fact, most of our friends have been non-university and it has appeared not to be an issue. since the thames presidency and the controversy that has arisen, and the total condemnation and disdain for faculty expressed by certain powerful elements of the hattiesburg community, i have begun to question our acceptance here. is this what people really think about us? it also pains me greatly to see individuals in the community be taken in by thames and the loyalty ties of the old guard. thames has been good at convincing people who know little re higher education and how a university is supposed to operate that he is doing the right thing. this is fueled by the need of some in the old guard to maintain their power and control through the use of personal ties, loyalties and mutual self interest while ignoring or denying that there are greater principles that should apply - namely the good of the school and its mission, the education of the children of the state. it is also fueled by a deep seated belief among some in mississippi that the rules of the outside world do not apply to us. we have always done it this way and no one from the outside (especially those faculty from places like michigan or new york or whereever) can influence us. it is a very closed system. i too have been disappointed in the apparent lack of public support for faculty from among community leaders. however, knowing a little of how things work here, things may be being done in private to try to change some minds. however, always remember that if this is happening, it is a "family fight" among the old guard powers that be and changes little in the overall operation of the place. in summary, this effects many of us. i read the board daily and try to do my part to support what is right for the university in my dealing with others - which to educate and try to give voice to the destructiveness and shear evil of the thames administration's actions toward faculty, deans and anyone who opposes his will.

Date: Mar 22, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: rosalie z
"i too experience the difficulty third witch's friend discussed. it makes me look at people differently and avoid contact with some who i know to be vehemently pro Thames. however, there has always been a town/gown divide, at times better at times worse. we moved here in 1980 from new orleans (both tenured tulane faculty at that time, a respected position in new orleans) and in the general community were met with "oh, you're at the college" and dismissed. this was not true of neighbors and some others, but the general attitude was oh, you're not one of us. gradually over the years we have become part of the larger community and in fact, most of our friends have been non-university and it has appeared not to be an issue. since the thames presidency and the controversy that has arisen, and the total condemnation and disdain for faculty expressed by certain powerful elements of the hattiesburg community, i have begun to question our acceptance here. is this what people really think about us? it also pains me greatly to see individuals in the community be taken in by thames and the loyalty ties of the old guard. thames has been good at convincing people who know little re higher education and how a university is supposed to operate that he is doing the right thing. this is fueled by the need of some in the old guard to maintain their power and control through the use of personal ties, loyalties and mutual self interest while ignoring or denying that there are greater principles that should apply - namely the good of the school and its mission, the education of the children of the state. it is also fueled by a deep seated belief among some in mississippi that the rules of the outside world do not apply to us. we have always done it this way and no one from the outside (especially those faculty from places like michigan or new york or whereever) can influence us. it is a very closed system. i too have been disappointed in the apparent lack of public support for faculty from among community leaders. however, knowing a little of how things work here, things may be being done in private to try to change some minds. however, always remember that if this is happening, it is a "family fight" among the old guard powers that be and changes little in the overall operation of the place. in summary, this effects many of us. i read the board daily and try to do my part to support what is right for the university in my dealing with others - which to educate and try to give voice to the destructiveness and shear evil of the thames administration's actions toward faculty, deans and anyone who opposes his will. "

Thanks for a very eloquent post.

Date: Mar 23, 2005

It is hard to overcome all of the bad feelings that have surfaced in the last few years. No matter how hard I try I can't forget that some of the business people I thought were friends let me know in no uncertain terms that they believed every word Thames was telling them and they expected me to do the same. We could be friends on any other issue but that one. No point in telling them that was not my idea of friendship. I avoided them but still carry scars from the hurt and bad memories. Even now when some of them have made a point of coming to me and telling me how wrong they were and are trying to do something to demonstrate their sorrow about past actions. The ugliness seems frozen in time and stands between us. Others were really afraid of Thames and tried to instill their fear of him in me. I have never been able to live like that.

My point is that knowing all of this doesn't help. I have seen these people now without mask and if I look too long I will turn into a pillow of salt. Better to move on and start over. There are towns that have positive outlooks and even better physical features than Hattiesburg - for me a fresh start is better - life is too short to share such bitter memories when we could be creating positive ways to live. Why can't I do that here now that we have some foundation to build on? Because the hurt and mistrust is too deep and because the man who created it is still around ... and no telling what will happen next as long as he is still here... still in a position of power. Nothing can heal under these circumstances.

Date: Mar 24, 2005

Thank you Rosalie Z. and Love Thy Neighbor for your thoughful comments. I have no comfort to offer, but you've given me some, by reminding me that I'm not crazy and that the feelings I have about life in Hattiesburg are not unique to me. My best to you!

Date: Mar 24, 2005

Thank you, Foot Soldier. This thread has helped me also. It has given voice, clarification, and deeper meaning to my feelings. It also has helped me to know that other people out there are dealing with the same feelings. At least I am not alone and have some hope of meeting people who will not have such unreasonable expectations of my friendship in another town. Somehow I had equated their expectations of people to people everywhere, even knowing better, it still made me want to withdraw from getting too close to people.

Date: Mar 24, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"How are you folks dealing with the personal and social fall-out from this mess?"

I couldn't deal with it. So I left. I could not have stayed. I felt forced to make a choice between USM and sanity.

I chose the latter. It was the right choice for me, although I regret that a choice between the two had to be made.

I have emerged sad but sane... or should I say sane but sad? Either is better than sad and INsane.

Date: Mar 25, 2005

Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread, you gave voice and form to my feelings as well--the sense of isolation and abandonment some days makes me feel like . AAUP's message board has been a lifesaver. The community has been a huge disappoinment to me as well, I truly believed that Thames would be fired well before now. And here we still are, trying to keep a positive attitude, that even this man can't last forver. And yet it feels like forever, looks like forever right now. And tragically, if he left tomrrow, the rebuiliding (including repairing the right betwwen faculty and everyone else) will take years. WIthout a critical mass of faculty members who remain here post-Shleby, it is hard to envision how such a process could happen. He has managed to bring out differences in people, as noted, and rupture relationships with the pro and anti Shelby drawn lines. And I believe that if he COULD, he would terminate every faculty member who dsiagrees with him in the same way he handled the situation wtih Gary and Frank. ANd then replace us dissidents with fresh faced new recruits who follow the party line without question. No tenured professors, we know too much and he can't kill us all.

If he is here another year, even as a lame duck, I will not be. The environment has become too toxic for me; I will have to save myself in spite of my loyalty to USM and my desire to retire here. And for me, that is the saddest of all.