HA: Story on Pinehaven situation - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 18, 2005

HA: Story on Pinehaven situation

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Most of these student/families get Pell grants,Medicaid,food stamps. Do they need subsidized housing? I have alot of single parents I work with who pay taxes,daycare,medical bills,etc. Whatever happened to working and saving money?

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Working Man
"Most of these student/families get Pell grants,Medicaid,food stamps. Do they need subsidized housing? I have alot of single parents I work with who pay taxes,daycare,medical bills,etc. Whatever happened to working and saving money? "

I'd really like to see your data. I was a single mother going to college and graduate school. I got no pell grants, medicaid, or food stamps. But I needed help like subsidized housing.

You are painting with very broad strokes and this is just another attempt at blaming victims, and it is especially egregious given these very students who need our help are doing exactly what society demands: getting a good education.

Good Grief!

Amy Young

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Most universities I know of provide some sort of graduate/family housing. The perceived value of this is figured into stipends and fellowships (thus saves the U. some cash.) Most of this housing I have ever seen and/or lived in was less than luxurious. These students get about what they pay for.
Working man, do you take a 15-hour load, raise children and work full-time? And graduate students don't get Pell grants. Most of them are in student-loan debt up to their eyebrows.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
" I'd really like to see your data. I was a single mother going to college and graduate school. I got no pell grants, medicaid, or food stamps. But I needed help like subsidized housing. You are painting with very broad strokes and this is just another attempt at blaming victims, and it is especially egregious given these very students who need our help are doing exactly what society demands: getting a good education. Good Grief! Amy Young"

Got my Ph.D. raising two kids (as a single parent) in the public school system. I fit all the criteria for subsidized everything. I think the Pinehave scheme, as it now stands, is a mistake.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Pinehaven - I spelled it wrong although the more that I think about this name . . . .

Date: Mar 18, 2005

HA Story on Pinehaven situation

Date: Mar 18, 2005

RE: HA: Story on Pinehaven situation

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"Most of this housing I have ever seen and/or lived in was less than luxurious."

This reminds me of a funny story. At the university where I went to graduate school (a very wealthy school, I might add, though "wealthy" was hardly my own condition), we grad students lived in ancient barracks that were originally constructed during World War II. These were built of wood and were about three feet off the ground. One enterprising grad student, frustrated that he could not take a bath because the barracks were equipped only with showers, brought into his unity an old-fashioned bath tub he'd found for sale. He filled it with water, stepped into it -- and promptly went right through the floor, which wasn't strong enough to support the weight. Ah, the good old days . . .

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Working Man
"They're not "victims".They're people without money. That's a good example of the socialistic mindset;people without money are "victims". The real "victims" are those who work and support a family and pay taxes. "

WM, would you rather use your tax money to help educate these parents (and, in turn, give their children a better life) or would you rather use that same money to pay for a lifetime of welfare and perhaps build a few prisons in the meantime to deal with the problems you might create on the back end?

I fail to see the validity of your logic. These parents are trying to help themselves and their children to have a better life. What a better use of $$ than to help them? And what better investment for your own future and the future of your community, state, and nation? Nobody's saying anyone is a "victim"...it's a win/win situation, the way I see it.

Truth (who actually lived in Pinehaven in the 70s and 80s as her single mother worked her way through school in order to get a better paying job)

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Maybe some of you folks should take a look at the police report every so often. The Pinehaven demographics have drastically changed over the past few years. More and more less than desirable tenants are somehow staying at Pinehaven.

I don't know the stats, but I would find it interesting to know how many of the students that stay there actually graduate in comparison to the general student population. Also, it is the students choice to go to school and they we should not be forced to offer them affordable housing. If they want an education bad enough they can find a way to make ends meet.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

But the sorority girls are another matter entirely...they NEED a new village while single parents can afford to find some way to pay their own expenses. What a bunch of dolts.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Policeman
"Also, it is the students choice to go to school and they we should not be forced to offer them affordable housing. If they want an education bad enough they can find a way to make ends meet."

Policeman, by using your logic, all on campus student housing should be shut down immediately. We should not subsidize any housing for any one. There is no value to residence life at USM, for anyone. NOT!

Date: Mar 18, 2005

"Also, it is the students choice to go to school and they we should not be forced to offer them affordable housing."

So, when are the dorms closing?

It's all about money. Everything this administration does is about money.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Story on Pinehaven situation

Date: Mar 18, 2005

RE: HA: Story on Pinehaven situation

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Sorry? Please see http://www.usm.edu/pinehaven/residency.html. JL

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: No Place like home
"It seems that some of our policies allow students who have dropped all of their classes to live in residence life areas (like Pinehaven) and they can do this repeatedly drawing Pell Grants for about 3 semesters... interesting.... leads to some interesting "students" residing there...."

Are you suggesting we throw the baby out with the bathwater? If there are problems in the system, fix the system.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Working Man
"Most of these student/families get Pell grants,Medicaid,food stamps. Do they need subsidized housing? I have alot of single parents I work with who pay taxes,daycare,medical bills,etc. Whatever happened to working and saving money? "

At many universities, new fraternity and sorority houses are financed by the national headquarters and paid for by the local members through monthly assessments. The land is usually university owned and leased to the organizations. That is how it is done at Ole Miss and LSU.

If you are so concerned that students be self sufficient, why do you support a university funded housing project for sorority members who are often affluent relative to the general student body? That sounds like welfare for the rich.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

I'm a member of Kappa Kappa Gamma - no affiliation at USM - my daughter pledged Pi Beta Phi - no affiliation at USM, with all that said let me assure you that paying into the sorority system is a HUGE waste of money. My husband and I can afford it, but I too feel that a "sorority village" is pretty sophomoric. SFT is, once again, letting his personal tunnel vision completely ground his administrative desires.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

The whole sorority village might not be a bad idea if we weren't broke. Ken Malone and his minions are shutting down Cont. Ed. so they can get their hands on the money and continue the house of cards for a few more months, Shelby is talking about laying off faculty but Glory Hallelujah in a year we can have a new sorority village.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

If you all check the student Printz from a couple weeks ago there were three arrests in Pinehaven. Also, if you were to take a survey of on campus resident gpa's you would see that their gpa's are no match for their off campus counterparts. I feel that if you all would ask some of the Pinehaven staff how the clientile has changed over recent years you would change your opinion of the type of students that are residing in that dump. Very few of the residents are actually married. Most are unwed mothers trying to get ahead by using government support.

I realize you all want hard facts, but I have none. The only research I have is walking/running and driving around Pinehaven.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Policeman wannabe,

Thanks for your civil reply and what looks like an honest attempt to respond to my comments.

If I may say so, it still sounds as though you're jumping to conclusions. I didn't read the Printz about the arrests in Pinehaven, but logically you can't assume that they are typical of the area without more evidence. And taking a survey of gpa's would be nowhere near as effective as seeing if Joe Paul's office has any data on impact of residence (and then, which one?) on gpa. There are so many, many factors that influence gpa that mere residence surely can't be a reliable predictor. In fact, you admit that you've just been in the Pinehaven area and drew your own conclusions without "hard facts." I point this up not to say "Aha!" but because I'm an educator and I suspect you really are attempting to deal with an issue.

I imagine that several feathers will be ruffled by your dismissal of Pinehaven residents as "unwed mothers trying to get ahead by using government support." It sounds as though you are looking for instant reasons not to care about other human beings. Ouch.

Were you one of my students, I'd still be interested in knowing how you would go about researching your impressions. If you develop some supported arguments on this topic, I hope you will post them.

Jameela

Date: Mar 18, 2005

There are occasions where renters at Pine Haven are not in "school". The decision to "evict or not" is definitely "humanitarian". This is not the point!!! When I attended USM, every Friday, we had speghetee(sp) dinner at Pine Haven. I was living in a $100.00 apartment, utilities included, and my room mate split the bill. Friends lived in pine Haven and weren't able to provide enough food for their families. Thus the spagheitee(sp) dinners!! I am proud to say that I financed several doctors, and common tax payers to obtain their dream! I have advised several people to get on the "public dole", get the education and relieve me of supporting them in poverty!! Education is the answer, not some perception that students in college have the easy life, on tax payers money. I consistently took 18 hours for semester credit on th quarter system and worked a 40 hour week and was married with a child on the way"! I have not " graduated with highest honors or "Cum Laude", but Igraduated!! I have a degree!! This allowed me to raise 4 children and instill in them the doctrine of "hard work" and if you want it " work for it!!! I have evidently beat my own chest until I hurt and will now retire and recuperate, but never doubt the value or need of a "quality education". For everyone!! Do you know of a good mechanic, electrician, plumber, doctor, accountant, lawyer............ and the list goes on.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

No I am not one of your former students. I am a staff member also completing my coursework for a doctoral degree. I understand all about good and bad research. However, I honestly think that if the majority of faculty spent any extended time looking into what is actually going on at Pinehaven they would agree that the land currently being occupied could be put to better use. Logically thinking, how many people are being effected? When you take out the graduates, dropouts, etc. I would think the number of students getting the boot is very minimal. I do agree with some that if these students were told they would have a place to stay during their schooling, they must be given the chance to stay in "affordable housing".

I also know that some of these graduate students living in Pinehaven could simply find a job and go to school at the same time. I have been working full-time for 5 years, taking six hours a semester, and raising a family at the same time. I have no sympathy for working students.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

effecting does not equal affecting.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Thanks for the lesson, or is it lessen?

Date: Mar 18, 2005

proper english!

Date: Mar 18, 2005

I have seldom seen some arrogance and contempt for the disadvantaged as I have seen on this thread. For what it's worth, I have known numerous Pinecrest residents who graduated and are making substantial contributions to their profession, to USM, and to the state of Mississippi. For those you who are are making disparaging comments about USM students who can't afford to live in luxury apartments or commute from some gated community: You are an embarrasment. You are also disgusting.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Policeman wannabe
"No I am not one of your former students. I am a staff member also completing my coursework for a doctoral degree. I understand all about good and bad research. However, I honestly think that if the majority of faculty spent any extended time looking into what is actually going on at Pinehaven they would agree that the land currently being occupied could be put to better use. Logically thinking, how many people are being effected? When you take out the graduates, dropouts, etc. I would think the number of students getting the boot is very minimal. I do agree with some that if these students were told they would have a place to stay during their schooling, they must be given the chance to stay in "affordable housing". I also know that some of these graduate students living in Pinehaven could simply find a job and go to school at the same time. I have been working full-time for 5 years, taking six hours a semester, and raising a family at the same time. I have no sympathy for working students."

Policeman wannabe, may I ask two questions? If I read the Student Printz and look at the police report, how many incidents have occured at fraternity housing? Should we follow your logic and convey that the use of land for the faternity houses could be put to better use? Just because someone has the money to live in faternity housing does that make them better than the residents of Pinehaven?