Letter To Faculty Senate - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 16, 2005

Letter To Faculty Senate

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"All my impressions formed in this letter are based solely on the opinions section in the Hattiesburg American. Again, I formed my beliefs based on the letters you have written to the paper."
Okay, now read the last ten pages of this board, including the Liberty & Power blogs. Please let us know how you feel when you have done so.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

Did not the local business community, at their "secret" meeting first criticize the USM faculty? Are you giving them the same advice?

Date: Mar 16, 2005

No, what we should do is lie down and let them roll over us. What comes to my mind is lying down "at the entrances to their businesses" ala Tiananmen Square. The last thing anyone would ever want to do is intimidate the Hattiesburg business community, who have been so vocal in their support of free speech and academic integrity.

No, sirree, Bob. We certainly don't want to upset Mr. Bob or Ms Drews. I, for one, make it a habit to buy cars from people who are antagonistic to my livelihood and that of my friends. I certainly want my teeth drilled by a doctor who thinks the list of facts is the story on USM.

Everone can easily see that it makes far more sense to "look good" to the "common residents" by kowtowing to the bidness community than it does to stand for something as trivial as the survival of OUR university (theirs, as well, but also OURS). After all, once the place is gone, they can make an automobile showroom out of the dome and park the used cars in the rose gardens. They can bottle Coke in the Polymer Science temple. The clinic can be set up as a dentist practice. Of course, there won't be much livelihood left or the "common residents" with 16,000 fewer students living here and another 3,000 or so faculty and staff. But, they can take all those new apartment complexes on the other side of I-59 and turn them into homeless shelters.

This is such a wonderful plan that I'm surprised the faculty in CoB haven't already proposed it.

I have to go find a new dentist now. The sarcasm is eating holes in my enamel.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

SS Dude --

Your letter contains most of the major fallacies of logic that would give this assignment an "F" in a Logic class.

Please go back, read the book, and rewrite the essay with the following in mind:

1. State your argument clearly ("premise")

2. Give several specific examples to support your argument ("cases")

3. Drawing from your premise specific cases, end with your "conclusion."

Thus endith the lesson in rational discourse, part one.

Your whiny little screeds are boring. The minimum qualification for a continued audience on this board is that you must at least try to be interesting, for Pete's sake. Even Albert occasionally rises to exceed the bottom limit of that bar.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

ssDude,

Perhaps you should read Dean Elliott Pood's piece in the Hattiesburg American. I saw no attacking of the business community there whatsoever.

Has Faculty Senate done anything? I was in the Faculty Senate meeting when the first evidence of the invitation-only business leader meeting appeared in the Independent. I don't recall Faculty Senate did anything to attack the local business community.

I think you need to get your facts straight.

As a member of the faculty, I must say that I become concerned when folks who don't have all the facts begin making decisions to influence board members. It is like a dentist telling me (or Shelby Thames) how to do my job. I must say I have never told my dentist how to do his job! I have complete faith in my dentist to do a good job. I know there are institutions in place that also help insure my dentist does a good job.

Faculty have as much right to speak out as business leaders. I might argue that they have not only the right, but an obligation, to speak out when they see something they perceive as wrong. After all, who is in a better position to assess the situation at USM? A faculty member of long standing? Or a local car dealer?

Parents of students, students, faculty AND local business leaders all have stakes in USM. But faculty, students (and administrators) at USM have inside knowledge.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"You had legitimate complaints against Thames for his handling of Glamser and Stringer. You had legitimate concerns about the removal of long-term deans. You still have a legitimate grievance with the IHL. However, I am worried about your most recent tirade against part of the Hattiesburg business community. Now you have expanded your attack outside of USM and you are intimidating a portion of the business community. This is not good. This is not wise. Do you not remember how more determined the IHL became when you started threatening and criticizing them? Some of your actions have already turned a portion of the community against USM faculty. Now you are directly criticizing some of the community for just meeting with Thames in an off campus environment and in a non-USM function. You have already done the damage with the business community, but I still tell you this in the hopes that you will not make the mistake again. All my impressions formed in this letter are based solely on the opinions section in the Hattiesburg American. Again, I formed my beliefs based on the letters you have written to the paper. If I feel this way, imagine how the common residents feel when they see how you are acting now. I do not think you should be criticizing the Hattiesburg business residents. This latest ploy makes you look very bad. Thank you."

ssDude, either you or I have reading problems. The letters I read in the media discussed the "community leaders" planning to reduced the Liberal Arts in favor of Science and Technology. Letters spoke out against that. Another letter quoted principles of SACS that may be violated by the outside group’s undue influence. It seems to me you confused criticizing statements and actions with "attacking people."

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"SS Dude -- Your letter contains most of the major fallacies of logic that would give this assignment an "F" in a Logic class. Please go back, read the book, and rewrite the essay with the following in mind: 1. State your argument clearly ("premise") 2. Give several specific examples to support your argument ("cases") 3. Drawing from your premise specific cases, end with your "conclusion." Thus endith the lesson in rational discourse, part one. Your whiny little screeds are boring. The minimum qualification for a continued audience on this board is that you must at least try to be interesting, for Pete's sake. Even Albert occasionally rises to exceed the bottom limit of that bar."

This is only my 3rd post here. I fail to see how my post was a screed.

Did you have to be so ugly? This is the type of behavior I am talking about. You should not be treating the public this way.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude Quality Control
"Okay, now read the last ten pages of this board, including the Liberty & Power blogs. Please let us know how you feel when you have done so."

But these are all written by one person who has a clear agenda, and it is too difficult figuring out which ones--if any--talk specifically about the business meeting.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"But these are all written by one person who has a clear agenda, and it is too difficult figuring out which ones--if any--talk specifically about the business meeting. "

Robert's L&P entries are clearly labelled, so the one about the business meeting should be easy to find.

Do you not also have a "clear agenda?" And what's wrong with having a "clear agenda?" Much rather read someone's clear agenda rather than a muddy one.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"
This is only my 3rd post here. I fail to see how my post was a screed.
Did you have to be so ugly? This is the type of behavior I am talking about. You should not be treating the public this way. "

Screed: A long monotonous speech or piece of writing.

Screeds are in the eyes of the beholder, SSD.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"You had legitimate complaints against Thames for his handling of Glamser and Stringer. You had legitimate concerns about the removal of long-term deans. You still have a legitimate grievance with the IHL. However, I am worried about your most recent tirade against part of the Hattiesburg business community. Now you have expanded your attack outside of USM and you are intimidating a portion of the business community. This is not good. This is not wise. Do you not remember how more determined the IHL became when you started threatening and criticizing them? Some of your actions have already turned a portion of the community against USM faculty. Now you are directly criticizing some of the community for just meeting with Thames in an off campus environment and in a non-USM function. You have already done the damage with the business community, but I still tell you this in the hopes that you will not make the mistake again. All my impressions formed in this letter are based solely on the opinions section in the Hattiesburg American. Again, I formed my beliefs based on the letters you have written to the paper. If I feel this way, imagine how the common residents feel when they see how you are acting now. I do not think you should be criticizing the Hattiesburg business residents. This latest ploy makes you look very bad. Thank you."

Please be informed that the plantation system is over. Nobody has to bow and scrape and say "Yassah Master' to the owner of any plantation.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
"Has Faculty Senate done anything? I was in the Faculty Senate meeting when the first evidence of the invitation-only business leader meeting appeared in the Independent. I don't recall Faculty Senate did anything to attack the local business community. I think you need to get your facts straight.As a member of the faculty, I must say that I become concerned when folks who don't have all the facts begin making decisions to influence board members. Amy Young"

I should remind you that I came here two days ago to get the facts. All I got was something called "liberty and power blog" written by someone who is filled with hatred.

You do have some influence over the people who are attacking the public and who are acting immaturely over a seemingly harmless event that included the public. I expected more from the faculty senate leader (or former leader) than a quick and mere dismissal of my letter.

Now I see the problem more clearly due to your response.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"
I should remind you that I came here two days ago to get the facts. All I got was something called "liberty and power blog" written by someone who is filled with hatred.
You do have some influence over the people who are attacking the public and who are acting immaturely over a seemingly harmless event that included the public. I expected more from the faculty senate leader (or former leader) than a quick and mere dismissal of my letter.
Now I see the problem more clearly due to your response."

TROLL ALERT!

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
" This is only my 3rd post here. I fail to see how my post was a screed. Did you have to be so ugly? This is the type of behavior I am talking about. You should not be treating the public this way. "

ssDude,

Stephen judd is a professor, what did you expect? I cannot watch someone walking without performing an analysis of their gait pattern.

You did not identify yourself as student/ staff/ faculty/ community member when you first posted this thread. Ergo, most of us, including myself, assumed you were a student. If you are a community member, you are welcome to post your thoughts and opinions here. Just remember, the rest of this place may or may not agree with you.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" Robert's L&P entries are clearly labelled, so the one about the business meeting should be easy to find.

So if there is only one, why did you post so many of them?

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"I expected more from the faculty senate leader (or former leader) than a quick and mere dismissal of my letter."

Then write him, or phone him, or meet with him. Either of those three routes.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

Sugar, the meeting was not open to the public. It wasn't even open to the media. Also when you say "you" it's helpful to identify who "you" is. Your posts sound like you think every faculty member thinks and speaks alike. Professor Robert Campbell of Clemson University is the author of the Liberty & Power blogs, and is hardly "filled with hatred" -- I'm so sorry you think so.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
"Perhaps you should read Dean Elliott Pood's piece in the Hattiesburg American. Amy Young"

Can it be reposted here? I believe this was from about 2 weeks ago, and I do not remember its content. I would like to see it again.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Outside Observer
"Did not the local business community, at their "secret" meeting first criticize the USM faculty? Are you giving them the same advice?"

Where is the evidence for this? Any news article?

Thank you for your time.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
" Can it be reposted here? I believe this was from about 2 weeks ago, and I do not remember its content. I would like to see it again."

If you've been reading this message board for 2 weeks as you say, I would imagine that your question has been answered.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Turnip Seed
"If you've been reading this message board for 2 weeks as you say, I would imagine that your question has been answered."

Where did you get "2 weeks"? I said 3 days. And I have not been reading this board. I have been reading only responses to my posts and a few threads about letters in the Hattiesburg American.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"So if there is only one, why did you post so many of them? "

Here is Robert Campbell's post on the meeting:

http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/10716.html

Date: Mar 16, 2005

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Le

Date: Mar 16, 2005

RE: RE: RE: Letter To Faculty Senate

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
" This is only my 3rd post here. I fail to see how my post was a screed. Did you have to be so ugly? This is the type of behavior I am talking about. You should not be treating the public this way. "

"I fail to see how my post was a screed."

Your post begins by disguising itself as sympathetic ("You have legtimate complaints . . ." ) when in fact its opening sentence is simply designed to obscure the fact that YOU have an agenda ("Now you have expanded your attack . . ")

First of all, don't address those who read and post on the board as YOU and link those people to actions for which many have no responsility or connection. There are many people who read and post on this site. If you want to fix some specific responsibility, then please name a specific name or a specific group and then cite exactly what it is those individuals or groups have done that you disagree with. Otherwise you've simply taken a big brush, loaded it with paint, and wiped it across everyone's face without making yourself in any way accountable for what you say.

Don't play games. No one on this board objects to genuine disagreement -- but please be honest about where you are really coming from.

Thus endeth the lesson in rational discourse number two.

Do not confuse rational discourse with gentleness. Do not confuse rational discourse with discourse that is not penetrating and occasionally cruel. I love my students, every one. But I occasionally have to point out that some of them lie. It is inevitable that no matter what strategy I undertake to deliver this piece of bad news, the student will inevitably regard that assertion as "cruel," -- even as he/she admits its truth.

A physician administers the rational discourse of medicine to my body. But my body, equipped to avoid pain, may perceive of that medicine as cruel -- or in your lexicon, "ugly."

Sorry my dear, but you deserve the medicine not because I disagree with you -- but because you are an insincere poseur masquarading as an honest inquirer and dispenser of advice. Your rhetoric, such as it is, exposes you as a liar.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Patti
" You did not identify yourself as student/ staff/ faculty/ community member when you first posted this thread. Ergo, most of us, including myself, assumed you were a student. . "

So it is not just the public then? You treat students this way too? I saw some other posts here about going after a few of the students who voiced their opinions apparently in support of Thames. I suppose I should write a letter about you attacking students too?

I also doubt very seriously if identified myself beforehand the result would have been any different. However, I did introduce myself 3 days ago when I posted here originally about the supposed attack of the business community. That is trivial though. The conent of my letter should have been addressed seriously regardless of my status or intellectual worth.

My impression of what some of the faculty are doing recently was sincere.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

ssDude,

I do know how you were raised up, but where I grew up you learned not to let folks walk over you, talk down to you, or talk badly about you, or claiming you were worthless. By that I mean, when they did, they became your enemy. When people make a living selling goods or services to me and then tell me how worthless I am and how worthless my colleagues are, they have forfeited their opportunity to continue to make money from providing me with goods and services. It is a signal of arrogance that you or others would suggest that we should not react to this provocation. And what will these business people who demean us do, talk even more badly about us. If so, they will drive away even more customers. As noted in other posts, business people who make a living selling goods and services to University employees would be wise to do a collective mea culpa and try to make amends. They probably will not, and my list of business to avoid patronizing will grow as more information comes out about attendees. I may be under worked and over paid in their eyes, but they sure as heck are not going to get any of my paycheck.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

ssDude, this Flit's for you...

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ssDude
"
So it is not just the public then? You treat students this way too? I saw some other posts here about going after a few of the students who voiced their opinions apparently in support of Thames. I suppose I should write a letter about you attacking students too?
I also doubt very seriously if identified myself beforehand the result would have been any different. However, I did introduce myself 3 days ago when I posted here originally about the supposed attack of the business community. That is trivial though. The conent of my letter should have been addressed seriously regardless of my status or intellectual worth.
My impression of what some of the faculty are doing recently was sincere."

A bit of advice...if you want to be taken seriously here, STOP ATTACKING US! Also, stop making ill-informed judgements about all of us...we are definitely not all current USM faculty. Read Stephen Judd's post to you before posting again, please.

This is your last chance w/me, SSDude. If you keep up your bad attitude, then we will definitely have to trot out the Troll-o-Meter for you.