Master's in Physics - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 16, 2005

Master's in Physics

Date: Mar 16, 2005

Kevin Walters does it again. "Why all of the "negative" in a positive story?" is the question the "bidness leaders will ask.

From the bottom of the article:

"Though classes are out for spring break, about a dozen faculty members concerned about the leadership of president Shelby Thames will drive to Jackson Thursday to attend the board meeting.

Faculty members have had a long-standing dispute with Thames, capped most recently by a near unanimous vote by the Faculty Senate to seek a new president."

Date: Mar 16, 2005

I'm sorry to read this. Mississippi has too much duplication in unpopular graduate degree programs. The MS ( and PhD) in Physics is a perfect exampls of this.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: palindrome
"I'm sorry to read this. Mississippi has too much duplication in unpopular graduate degree programs. The MS ( and PhD) in Physics is a perfect exampls of this."

I respectfully disagree with you on the M.S. physics program, palindrome. I understand your point on duplication, however, when I study the funding in this situation, the program seems more like a "private" program that is "state supported" in name only. As the IHL staff member pointed out, it would cost the state more to end the program. The only positive in ending it, that I can think of, is that then you can say, "we don't have duplication of a program". I should mention that if you consider similar programs at Ole Miss, MSU or Jackson State, you may find that these are not exactly "duplications".

Date: Mar 16, 2005

From the HA story: "Having the program ensures there will be graduate students who help teach undergraduate classes for faculty members so they can focus on getting more research funding."

This statement is chilling. It suggests that the whole point of keeping the program is to turn the faculty into fundraisers. Um, aren't they supposed to be doing research?

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Weakly reader
"From the HA story: "Having the program ensures there will be graduate students who help teach undergraduate classes for faculty members so they can focus on getting more research funding." This statement is chilling. It suggests that the whole point of keeping the program is to turn the faculty into fundraisers. Um, aren't they supposed to be doing research? "

I heard the grad students are laboratory assistants. These are labs, not lectures, and run 2.5 hours. Assistants set up and take down the equipment and grade the lab reports. This frees up time for faculty to teach lecture sections and do research.

However, I agree with you that the staff person had to relate it to more funding for the benefit of the Board, who still think this is a business for profit. I don't mind them making "a profit" in some disciplines, if and only if, they keep the other disciplines that do not bring in money. But if "profit is the goal, cut Liberal Arts and fund engineering and technology. That is the mind set I hate.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Programer
"
I heard the grad students are laboratory assistants. These are labs, not lectures, and run 2.5 hours. Assistants set up and take down the equipment and grade the lab reports. This frees up time for faculty to teach lecture sections and do research.
However, I agree with you that the staff person had to relate it to more funding for the benefit of the Board, who still think this is a business for profit. I don't mind them making "a profit" in some disciplines, if and only if, they keep the other disciplines that do not bring in money. But if "profit is the goal, cut Liberal Arts and fund engineering and technology. That is the mind set I hate.

"

Actually, Programer, Liberal Arts pays for itself and then some through tuition alone. Our classes are "cheap" - that is do not require expensive equipment like physics labs or chemistry labs, and we "process" lots of students. In my department, Sociology classes almost always fill up and close each semester. There are no more chairs. These hundreds of students pay the same tuition as polymer science students who require a lot more equipment to educate properly.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
" Actually, Programer, Liberal Arts pays for itself and then some through tuition alone. Our classes are "cheap" - that is do not require expensive equipment like physics labs or chemistry labs, and we "process" lots of students. In my department, Sociology classes almost always fill up and close each semester. There are no more chairs. These hundreds of students pay the same tuition as polymer science students who require a lot more equipment to educate properly. Amy Young"

I agree with both you and Programer, Amy. In CoST the Math dept does a tremendous amount of credit hours just like Liberal Arts. But our dean is downsizing Math and building up departments that bring in grant money. They figure they can use adjuncts to teach the large service courses. There are rumors that some courses will be on line.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

Math 101, I believe (college algebra) was approved to be taught in an online format recently at Academic Council. The reason for the change was that there were not adequate faculty to teach the class in a traditional face-to-face format. I was quite dismayed at the reason for the addition of the online format. I believe that every student on campus who wants to take a class like MAT 101 in a traditional manner should have that opportunity and not be forced to take it online. There might be a demand for the online version, I don't know.

Neither sociology nor anthropology courses have been modified or approved for modification into an online format.

Given our difficulties with SACS and probation, I would be astounded at being forced to offer classes in online formats at this point. In fact,I hope it never comes to being forced.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" I agree with both you and Programer, Amy. In CoST the Math dept does a tremendous amount of credit hours just like Liberal Arts. But our dean is downsizing Math and building up departments that bring in grant money. They figure they can use adjuncts to teach the large service courses. There are rumors that some courses will be on line. "

This reminds me Amy that in Academic Council we wanted to address the issue that NO GEC courses should be available ONLY online and that the delivery through a tranditional classroom should always be provided and at a reasonable tim eon the schedule. I fear that we are headed down the road of some GEC courses may only be available online and I think that a bad idea ..

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"
This reminds me Amy that in Academic Council we wanted to address the issue that NO GEC courses should be available ONLY online and that the delivery through a tranditional classroom should always be provided and at a reasonable tim eon the schedule. I fear that we are headed down the road of some GEC courses may only be available online and I think that a bad idea ..
"

Stephen,

Absolutely! Bad idea. I think we need to have a good discussion in AC about these concerns.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 16, 2005

I think it's interesting that so many courses are going online in departments like math while I have never heard of an online polymer science course.

Eventually, I will have to make sure that students in my college actually have a math class with a face-to-face instructor, because with the student population we currently have, the path of least resistance will be the most well-worn.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

There's an assumption that A. Everybody has or can get a computer, and B. Everybody has or can get a high-speed connection. Don't know about y'all but my cable modem is $50 per month. You can't get cable or DSL in some part of our service area. What are these students supposed to do?

Date: Mar 17, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"There's an assumption that A. Everybody has or can get a computer, and B. Everybody has or can get a high-speed connection. Don't know about y'all but my cable modem is $50 per month. You can't get cable or DSL in some part of our service area. What are these students supposed to do?"

That's easy...the Administration will take some of the savings from reorganization and construct computer labs and internet cafes all over campus...then students without cable/dsl service can drive to campus to take an online course.

Date: Mar 17, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Answer Man
"That's easy...the Administration will take some of the savings from reorganization and construct computer labs and internet cafes all over campus...then students without cable/dsl service can drive to campus to take an online course."

This is already going on. On campus you can get wireless connection.

Date: Mar 17, 2005

Has the MS survived? When will a final judgement be made? Why no press release? Inquiring minds want to know...

Date: Mar 17, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: palindrome
"Has the MS survived? When will a final judgement be made? Why no press release? Inquiring minds want to know..."

Yes, with flying colors. The board staff changed their mind and recommended that their guidelines be changed. Looking only at graduation rates doesn't give the full picture of programs. The academic committee is preparing a report on just such a revision of their guidelines. It turned out that the numbers published in the paper were not correct. The grant money brought in was correct, but the cost of about $800,000 to $900,000 was not. That was for the whole department, undergraduate and graduate. The graduate program was only costing the state about $50K a year for stipends. Without grad students the cost would go up since adjuncts would be needed to teach the labs and the research funding would go down. A lose-lose situation.

Date: Mar 17, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Programer
" Yes, with flying colors. The board staff changed their mind and recommended that their guidelines be changed. Looking only at graduation rates doesn't give the full picture of programs. The academic committee is preparing a report on just such a revision of their guidelines. It turned out that the numbers published in the paper were not correct. The grant money brought in was correct, but the cost of about $800,000 to $900,000 was not. That was for the whole department, undergraduate and graduate. The graduate program was only costing the state about $50K a year for stipends. Without grad students the cost would go up since adjuncts would be needed to teach the labs and the research funding would go down. A lose-lose situation."

http://www.ihl.state.ms.us/newsstory.asp?ID=323

Press release on the MS in Physics recommended to continue.

Date: Mar 17, 2005

people have been arguing for years that programs needed to evaluated by looking at more than graduation rates alone. McHenry (former assistant commissioner who was responsible for academics) left the IHL and he was the one who only wanted to look at graduation rates.

Date: Mar 17, 2005

The board voted to not to get rid of the masters in physics today.

Amy Young