Will it ever end - RE: The Meeting - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 12, 2005

RE: RE: Will it ever end - RE: The Meeting

Date: Mar 12, 2005

Dear Out of Control,

I enjoyed reading your thoughtful post and you have had lots of responses here. Welcome to the message board! I, too, would like to add a few thoughts.

I suppose I am in the category that you label "pot stirring," though I do not think of myself in this way. There may be a few who try to stir things up for strange reasons, for everyone I know who have lead the charge, these folks do so because of a deep committment to American ideals and to state insitutions of higher learning without which most Americans would not be able to get the education necessary to succeed in today's society and economy. Curiosuly, most academics are naturally introverted and want nothing more than to do research and teach and not get involved with "administration." To get so many professors to stir the pot here really means that things are terribly wrong and there are perceived threats to the American ideals and to state institutions like USM. Nobody does this lightly.

When I started, I made a decision. I knew that at the very least, I would never be promoted to full professor in this regime. I knew that at the least my salary would suffer. It has. But I believe in the greater good. I also have hope that when things are better here, I can get my packet together and try for promotion. I truly believe that everyone who has stood up and objected to the destructive decisions of the Thames administration has made similar choices and acted for the best interests of their students and the community we serve in South Mississippi.

Now, about trying to hurt the SACS process. SACS accreditation is a very large and complex process and one or two faculty simply do not have the power to hurt anything at all. I think there might be a tendency to overestimate the power of individual faculty here. While occasionally we get frustrated trying to work on SACS despite the negative things that the administration has done (and continues to do) to endanger SACS accreditation, we all know that we must do our very best for the same reasons I stated above. The only individuals who have the power to hurt us in SACS accrediation are those in the upper administration.

Thanks for your thoughtful post and I look forward to working with you and anyone else who wants to save USM.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 12, 2005

kick

Date: Mar 12, 2005

Like all of you, I have a big investment in USM and will do everything at all times to promote what a great institution this is. But we must acknowledge the facts. With the current outside interference and the slam that shared governance has taken under Shelby Thames, there is NO WAY in this world that SACS is going to let this pass. I just do not believe that unless something is done to remove him and get other leadership in time to show all that shared governance works we will survive a SACS reaccreditation visit in another year. It just will not happen. Townsfolks just don't understand the process and, hence, how much damage they are doing our prospects for a clean SACS review. Pity, but they have brought all this on us, dating back to the cabal to remove Fleming. They deserve what they have gotten. We at USM do not.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

Perhap the good burghers of Hub Gulch would do well to study the events that transpired on St. Scholastica's Day, 1354, at Oxford. (Puh-leeze, that's Oxford, ENGLAND. Ole Miss wasn't discovered until 1492.) From the Oxford History website:

The fallout from the riot was severe. The city had to pay for repairs to the colleges, and the Mayor and burgesses of Oxford had to swear allegiance to the Chancellor of the University every year and pay token damages in a special ceremony. The ceremony continued well into the Victorian period. There is no record as to whether the quality of wine at the Swyndlesock Tavern improved.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

qwerty - I am a highly educated professional with undergraduate and graduate degrees and I came back. But I agree, I have ties to the community and want to raise my kids here. Otherwise, I don't imagine this makes to many people's list - especially with such poor local and state government.

Amy - Pot-stirrers may have brushed too many folks unfairly. Having known one of the original profs who was targeted for the past 20 years, I know he couldn't stand not to have things stirred up in everyting he was associated with. I guess to see so many folks rally behind him made me think the rest of you were wired the same way. I apolpgize for those of you who are helping facilitate the change. The stereo type is unfair.

All - The good news, is that there were people who were absent from the meeting - none that have been mentioned here - that are strongly opposed to Thames also. They have far reaching political influence and are working as hard as you through other channels. If anybody needs handout from the meeting, give me an email address and I will scan on Monday and send to you. you can email me directly at hburgbiz@yahoo.com instead of posting here.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

Out of Control,

I can assure you that I will leap to support any faculty member for whatever reason because for me it is "faculty versus the Hattiesburg community." I have never seen or heard of such a level of animosity from a community to faculty before. Silly me, I have been here many years and I was under the allusion that I was a member of the community and was regarded as a valuable citizen. I was not aware that under the surface I was really viewed as a lazy piece of crap that was earning too much money. When I spent my money in Hattiesburg, no one told me that I was spending too much in Hattiesburg. But since I was overpaid, it must mean that I do spend too much in Hattiesburg. However, I am trying to spend less here and, if I am fortunate, I can manage to spend nothing in Hattiesburg. It is not just one small group. It is restaurant owners, physicians, CPA firms, contractors, and others. I do not see signs that say “USM faculty and staff welcome here.” I cannot figure out whether my anger is at me for being so unaware or at Hattiesburg for being the disappointment it has turned out to be. In the past, I have said that Hattiesburg was the best place I ever lived of the six other states in which I have resided. It now has dropped to the worst. In the past I was amused when someone would raise the issue that the majority of State and Ole Miss backers, which includes most of the Board and the Legislature, were out to get USM. Now I am convinced that even they had under estimated the reality of that sentiment. I want to emphasize very clearly to all of those who want to blame or criticize faculty or staff at the university; it is the IHL Board, the citizens of the Hattiesburg community, the Governor, and the Legislature that will have to prove to the USM faculty that they are NOT out to destroy USM. ALL of the evidence supports the hypothesis that the destruction of USM is their focus. There is no evidence to the contrary. It has taken an outsider, SACS, to step up and weight in on the side of the faculty and the side of reason.

Unlike my many more liberal colleagues who struggle to see both sides, something that I admire but cannot do, I do not think that getting the truth out to more people will result in more reasonable actions on their part. People who do not like you or respect you will never stop trying to run over you. They interpret attempts to reason as weakness. Only when you kick the crap out them will they relent. Here's hoping that SACS is our Shrek who will set things right.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

Monique does not buy coffee out very often (her own being so wonderful, n'est ce pas?) but when she does, it is exclusively at JavaWerks with their so lovely little sign of the Friday discount for faculty.
(Well, ok, she used her Starbucks free card, but only that once.)

Date: Mar 12, 2005

If you don't stir a pot, stuff will stick to the bottom of the pot, ruin the stew & increase the risk of a fire.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

However, I am trying to spend less here and, if I am fortunate, I can manage to spend nothing in Hattiesburg.

My dog doesn't even bother to bark at the UPS truck anymore. I spend most of my mony at Wal Mart. Why I may get flamed for this, one has to admit that whatever their flaws, the Walton family understands the value of education. Understandably, they have given of millions to the Business School at Arkansas. What is unusual is the millions they have given to the HONORS COLLEGE. Obviously, they understand how to use money to enhance economic development in a poor state. We're building a mansion dedicated to a discredited politician populated with a bunch of, never mind, scrambling around for small pieces of pork and calling it "economic development."

Date: Mar 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Cossack
"Only when you kick the crap out them will they relent. Here's hoping that SACS is our Shrek who will set things right. "

Cossack,

I really wish you would stop saying stuff like this. I know you are speaking METAPHORICALLY (and, in the present context, specifically about SACS), but, as recent events have proven, your words can easily be taken out of context and used against the best interests of the people who are really trying to help USM. It is really hard for me to believe, as you suggest, that nearly the entire Hattiesburg community hates the faculty. I can understand why you are upset, indeed I can understand why you are VERY upset, but when you make comments like this you basically "pull a Shelby" and shoot yourself (and the rest of us) in the foot. Please cease and desist. You are starting to remind me of a person I know who thinks that anything said with "passion" is ipso facto virtuous and worthwhile.

Date: Mar 13, 2005

Just An Opinion,

It is not clear to me how my words could be taken out of context. While I do not have the literary skills of many of my fellow academics, I thought I was reasonably clear.

However, I will admit that I resort to my native language (redneck) sometimes when I am upset. I have checked my thesaurus and cannot find a substitute analogy for “kick the crap out of them”. Hence, I shall restate what I meant in my statement. Since logic and reasoning has had little to no impact on SFT, his minions, and supporters, I have come to believe that raw power is the only agent of change that will bring results. Although my evaluation of the situation may be limited, I am convinced that SACS is the only force (source of power) that can change what is happening.

Your reference to the behind the scenes activities that will have an impact on the outcome suggests that you have information that I do not have. I think it likely that most, if not all, of the other posters on this message board do not have this information either. Since I am not an insider, I must rely on my interpretation of signals and communications that I receive through the newspapers and this message board. What I hear is the very loud sound of silence. It is an eerie creepy lack of sound. I hear nothing from the Ole Miss or Mississippi State contingent. No letters or posting on this message board from their faculty lending support. The sound of silence from the major coast newspaper is chilling, particularly since part of the USM campus is there. The Hattiesburg paper has stepped up their coverage, but it appears to be the result of one industrious reporter who has landed another job just as many of our departed faculty have done. That one outlier did not go unnoticed, one of our administrators suggested that he should be lynched. This silence may not bother you, but it bothers me. It tells me that there are a multitude of people who either are against the faculty of USM, or there are a multitude of people who are scared.

If it is not SACS that will break the back of this conspiracy, then who or what do you think will be the agent of change? Hopefully you do not believe that the forces allied against us will succumb to the voices of reason because in their heart they really are good people.

Date: Mar 13, 2005

Cossack,

Thanks for a very thoughtful and civil reply; I truly appreciate both the tone and the substance of it. I have no "behind the scenes" info; in referring to people who are trying to help USM, I was thinking of most of the posters to this board as well as their allies, and potential allies, in the community. In the last few days the board has been visited by some intelligent, well-meaning people who may not share our views entirely but who are at least willing to listen. I guess I am just hyper-sensitive right now about giving them any wrong impressions about our values and intentions. Several of these posters, who have indicated that they are members of the business community, have indicated that Shelby is losing support in the community at large and that influential people are indeed working behind the scenes to help speed his departure. In addition, I think we have all noticed that even his previously most vocal supporters (such as Klumb) have become somewhat tongue-tied or ambivalent lately. I am hoping that the tide may be turning; perhaps this hope is naive. I do agree with you, by the way, that it is only the looming threat of further actions by SACS that will finally send Shelby packing. Thanks again for not taking my admonition in the wrong way.

Date: Mar 13, 2005

Your suggestion to use less crude language was in order. I agree that there may be more going on than we can see. It may be that some of this change is due to having sympathies with faculty, but not much. However, I do believe that the turmoil is more than some of the SFT supporters had bargained for and they too are becoming weary of the fight. I also believe that SACS is looking much more closely at the IHL Board and its action in this continuing saga. I have posted before that SACS forced Auburn to move Lowder to a back seat and he was more powerful than the sum of all of the IHL Board. The SACS consultant is being paid to provide the guidance necessary to achieve accreditation, and the focus has shifted from the reporting problem to the lack of process that is rampant across the campus. It is likely that SFT was the behind scenes organizer of the Thursday meeting. As usual, it was ham handed and an ill thought out move. It provides further evidence of outside interference in the governance process. There is a bright side to this. This meeting was an indication of the limits of SFT's influence. It was a group from the narrow geographic area of the Hattiesburg SMSA. The movers and shakers of Hattiesburg are only a small portion of the stakeholders of the University. It might have had more significance if it had included attendees from Jackson and the Coast.