Tonight's Meeting - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 10, 2005

RE: Tonight's Meeting

Date: Mar 10, 2005

It's incredible to me that you are (1) retyping this rather than scanning it and (2) making so few (if any) errors. I admire you even more than I did before!

Date: Mar 10, 2005

WDAM says 185 people were there. What happened to 300?

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Bob Mixon on news, failed to give ringing endorsement of his guy. Also said 185 attended.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: FSWWT
"Did You Know??? The Southern Miss Symphony Orchestra has performed with such greats as B.B. King, Doc Severinson, Yo-Yo Ma and Itzak Perlman.... '

This is pretty sad. It's as if the folks who received these brochures are assumed to be from the moon. Or Jackson. Anyone in Hattiesburg that even pretends to be involved with USM surely is aware of this, even if they did not choose to attend.

Did you know USM won the 1987 NIT championship? DUH.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I hate to say this, but I could take my kids' high school and come up with a stronger list than this. In fact, they have more national merit finalists at their high school than USM does. This is really quite sad.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
" This is pretty sad. It's as if the folks who received these brochures are assumed to be from the moon. Or Jackson. Anyone in Hattiesburg that even pretends to be involved with USM surely is aware of this, even if they did not choose to attend. Did you know USM won the 1987 NIT championship? DUH."

I just want to note that right now there are 56 users online . . .

Date: Mar 10, 2005

The great thing about this list is that if it is as easy to refute as some of you are suggesting, then a point-by-point written refutation can be prepared and handed out to people in the community. In other words, Shelby and his supporters may just have handed us further ammunition to use against them. If this is really the best they can do, and if these points can be countered as easily as some of you have suggested, then Shelby may once again have turned an attempted PR ploy into a PR disaster. I hope that people will sit down and write a reasoned, factual refutation of the points on this list rather than confining their refutations simply to this board.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I'm still eagerly awaiting a list of attendees but thought it was worth passing along that Ted Webb, local president of Bancorp South (and certainly a prominent H'burg business leader), was seen at the art lecture tonight. He'll get my business!

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Of course, this list may be a last minute "cover" since there was so much bad press about the meeting initially. They could be using this to retreat from the original purpose of the meeting.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Just saw the piece on WDAM...definitely not the tone of the meeting...I'll get to that!!!!

Continued from the Did You Know list:

Southern Miss School of Mass Communication and Journalism offers the state's only comprehensive mass communication program that provides the full breadth (print, broadcast journalism, broadcast production, photojournalism, film, advertising and public relations) and depth (Baccalaureate, to doctoral degrees) of mass communication education.

The Certified Public Accountant exam passage rate for USM graduates exceeds the national average and is the highest in the state.

Southern Miss educates more teachers than any other university in MS. More than half of all secondary English teachers come from USM.

Southern Miss is one of the few institutions throughout the world accredited in all disciplines of psychology, including, clinical, school and counseling psychology.

an on-going study of dolphins at Southern Miss has led researchers to consider one aspectof non-human culture, which is the ability to transmit behavior from one generation to the next.

The Polymer Science Dept created and supplied a new polymer to WarmKraft, a company located in Taylorville, MS. The polymer treatment is now applied by WarmKraft to all US Marine Corps camouflage uniforms.

Biologists at Southern MS are researchign the effects of the herbal remedy ginkgo biloba on Alzheimer's disease.

Southern Miss educates more nurses than any other institution in MS.

Southern Miss is one of only 24 universities in the nation and the only university in the State, which is accredited in all four areas of the performing arts (music, theater, dance, art)

whewwwwwww...............that's all folks....now for the tone.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I suggest that someone who knows them well ask Kurt Redden the former vp for fundraising and Don Cotton who was a vp at USM to look at this list so they can give us history. Both won't get into this fray but they can be helpful because they were there. Strongly suggest that we do as our good USM Sympathiser and turn this back on them. What a childish public relations campaign this is.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"The great thing about this list is that if it is as easy to refute as some of you are suggesting, then a point-by-point written refutation can be prepared and handed out to people in the community. In other words, Shelby and his supporters may just have handed us further ammunition to use against them. If this is really the best they can do, and if these points can be countered as easily as some of you have suggested, then Shelby may once again have turned an attempted PR ploy into a PR disaster. I hope that people will sit down and write a reasoned, factual refutation of the points on this list rather than confining their refutations simply to this board."

The sticky thing is how to write the refutation without seeming to be (by extension) attacking the university. In other words, if not careful, it will be easy for us to be accused of failing to see the good and actually wishing the university to do poorly . . . .

This is a sticky issue. I think the only tactic is to make the refutation entirely factual with a rhetoric that is distinterested and not emotional in tone.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Yes, thanks to our good FACULTY we have always excelled in these areas. Nothing new here. Just the usual high standard of excellence! Talk about coatings and paint.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" The sticky thing is how to write the refutation without seeming to be (by extension) attacking the university. In other words, if not careful, it will be easy for us to be accused of failing to see the good and actually wishing the university to do poorly . . . . This is a sticky issue. I think the only tactic is to make the refutation entirely factual with a rhetoric that is distinterested and not emotional in tone. "

Excellent points. This would have to be carefully written. One technique might be to give credit for each of the good points to where it is really due: faculty and staff, perhaps naming as many individuals as possible. The list seems superficially impressive (except for the obviously nonsensical stuff) until you realize how much of this began before Shelby and how much of it is the result of hard work by people who detest Shelby.

By the way, isn't it a shame that the world-famous Donne Variorum project can no longer be mentioned on such a list. Someone should make a counter-list of all the good things that have disappeared from USM thanks to Shelby (the Donne conference would be another item on such a list).

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
" Excellent points. This would have to be carefully written. One technique might be to give credit for each of the good points to where it is really due: faculty and staff, perhaps naming as many individuals as possible. The list seems superficially impressive (except for the obviously nonsensical stuff) until you realize how much of this began before Shelby and how much of it is the result of hard work by people who detest Shelby. By the way, isn't it a shame that the world-famous Donne Variorum project can no longer be mentioned on such a list. Someone should make a counter-list of all the good things that have disappeared from USM thanks to Shelby (the Donne conference would be another item on such a list)."

All excellent points. You are right -- we need to make sure that the credit due to the faculty and staff gets approrpriately apportioned . . . especially when so many of them continue to do good work despite the current regime . . .

I think mentioning the loss of Donne a food one -- and we should mention its recent success which it has had after leaving USM .. .

Date: Mar 10, 2005

And look at how many of the "good things" like nursing, the CPA pass rate, the arts, are from programs he is actively trying to destroy.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

So we need two lists: one refuting (or providing context for) Shelby's, and one mentioning all the things ignored in his list. I'm hoping we'll hear soon about the tone of the meeting and of the media reports of the meeting.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"And look at how many of the "good things" like nursing, the CPA pass rate, the arts, are from programs he is actively trying to destroy. "

I was going to say the same thing. Look how many accomplishments are in the non-technical areas.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I'm all for preparing a written statement giving proper credit for these accomplishments. I agree it must be very carefully written. I also think we should put together our own meeting during which we present (again, carefully, calmly) the failings of the Thames administration. We would invite the media and attract a much larger crowd than the pro-Thames 185.

Shall we?

Thanks for the great suggestion, USM Sympathizer. And many thanks to from someone who was there for the detailed report.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I believe the CPA pass rate data is old. I don't believe USM has the highest pass rate anymore.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I am looking forward to reading about the meeting in tomorrow's HA. It sounds, at leastpreliminarily, like the meeting is just what it was announced to be in the Independent, an opportunity for a few locally influencial people to try to extend that influence to the IHL and save Shelby Thames. I think that we will find that they remain critical of the faculty because they see faculty as unnecessarily critical of Thames.

Shelby Thames has had more than two years to pull this university together. While it seems like there was nothing but criticism from the outset, there have been relatively quiet periods where we watched and waited for positive change.

The fact is that faculty have been virtually shut out of all decision-making processes that have determined the direction of this university. At the same time, the administration has been making critical errors that have jeopardized our accreditation status. Faculty have seen the mistakes and understand the consequences to higher education in this state, and it has been our duty to try to point them out as well as try to get this university that we are all devoted to back on track.

We have stated this as faculty again and again. Thames does not have the management skills necessary to lead USM to fulfill its potential. His management style is autocratic.

This style is often necessary in running a laboratory. If the person in charge doesn't maintain control, you lose data (and possibly money). Labs are often small enough and simple enough that one person can make almost all of the decisions and keep the lab running well. Universities are large and complex and such autocratic style just doesn't make sense. Shelby Thames lacked the experience in running an institution so large and complex and when he basically fired all of those immediately under him and replaced those with new, inexperienced individuals, we had a whole collection of administrators who did not have the facts to run the university in an effective manner.

Dr.Thames was obviously very successful in managing his labs and this management benefited his students and the university. But Dr. Thames has not been an effective leader for USM.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Reporter: "Members of the Hattiesburg business community are being encouraged to get actively involved in resolving disputes between faculty and administration at USM."

Video shot "just after the conclusion" of "private meeting" shows two dozen people milling about in room and parking lot. Reporter: "Dozens of business leaders met to discuss the long-standing feud between the Faculty Senate and Southern Miss president Shelby Thames."

Reporter: "Organizers say the gathering was neither pro-Thames nor anti-faculty." Business owners being asked to "help bring an end to the conflict."

Bob Mixon, Courtesy Ford: "This is just not something that needs to continue going on and on. And we truly feel like there are a lot of untruths and half-truths that have gone unchallenged. And we would like for the business community to educate themself and be able to separate the half-truths from the real truths, make some decisions about what their opinion in this situation is, and then try to influence people to help resolve the issue."

Reporter: "Mixon says about 185 business people attended."

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: WDAM at 10:00
" And we would like for the business community to educate themself "

Starting with a grammar text might be good. (Sorry; couldn't resist.)

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Just out of curiousity, why is the opinion of a business owner more important or better than the opinion of a published author, or of a nurse, or of a minister, or of a teacher, or of a retiree?
I've been a business owner and didn't find that it gave me any special corner on wisdom.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Bob Mixon, Courtesy Ford: "This is just not something that needs to continue going on and on. And we truly feel like there are a lot of untruths and half-truths that have gone unchallenged. And we would like for the business community to educate themself and be able to separate the half-truths from the real truths, make some decisions about what their opinion in this situation is, and then try to influence people to help resolve the issue."

I get the feeling that Mixon believes that faculty senate havebe been telling untruths and half-truths, although I could be wrong.

I agree that this is not something that needs to continue going on and on. In fact, given the SACS issues that we face, that would be a tremendous mistake. But I have no good reason to believe that the administration will change direction. That is what would have to happen in order for this not to go on and on.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"I've been a business owner and didn't find that it gave me any special corner on wisdom."

But LVN, since you obviously DO have a special corner on wisdom (and I say this in all sincerity), can you tell us how you acquired it? Enquiring minds want to know! In all seriousness, you have long been one of my favorite posters; I hope we can meet someday.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Sympathizer, it's like that old joke. I've finally got the answers, but nobody's asking the questions!
Make enough mistakes and you learn a few lessons. I never repeat my mistakes -- I enjoy making those fresh new ones!

And the admiration is mutual.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

The tone of the meeting:

The tone of the meeting was clearly a pro-SFT rally. It is important to note that all there were not buying the bill of goods being presented, but it was apparent that those responsible for organizing the meeting were there for the purpose of throwing their support behind SFT. That was a very clear message. The following are some points that were made during the meeting:

It was strongly suggested that only a few faculty are "inciting" the masses. Myron was mentioned specifically as in, "That Myron Henry should have never been brought here!"

Stated that the no confidence votes that have happened in the past were coerced; that is, for fear of reprisal, non-tenured faculty voted along with the masses (for those of you reading this, all votes were by secret ballot!!!)

Those who get tenure, go on to be nonproductive faculty

the Hattiesburg American is biased against Dr. Thames and can't be trusted to print articles or statements correctly; one suggested boycotting the American by cancelling subscriptions or not buying advertising space

those organizing the meeting that happened tonight have been threatened with bodily harm and boycotting; one participant proclaimed to have a pistol under the seat of his car and stated, "I'm not afraid of some faculty member."

If SFT leaves the University, it will not survive; who would want to come to a university in such turmoil

all were urged to contact the IHL in support of SFT

everyone was urged to visit the AAUP web site

there was no mention of SACS probation, the fall from Tier 3 to Tier 4, the College of Business, Nursing, or any academic program for that matter. or the library

Shelby knows how to talk and work the legislature and that helps the university

teaching faculty are jealous of the Athletic Department.

Okay folks, the tone of the meeting was exactly what one could expect based on the preceding articles in the paper. It is clear to me that their motives were transparent. Love of the University was the least of them!!!!

Date: Mar 10, 2005

FSWWT,

What was the tone of the meeting?