S.H. Letter - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 10, 2005

S.H. Letter

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Now that is a d--n good letter!

There will be a Johnny Dupree sign in my yard as an anti-Thames protest as much as signifying who I will vote for.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

As much as I agree with the sentiments of the letter and the previous poster's comments, I think we all do a major disservice to the cause by introducing any modicum of politics into this debate. The bottom line is that the majority of those in the community with any influence over USM's future are Republicans with a very (Fox News-fed) view of academics and "liberal" professors. We can't win any fight by trying to explain to these folks how wrong they are in political terms (c.f., Kerry's campaign).

As for making political references in our letters or pledging even symbolic support for any particular candidate, we'd be better served by incorporating a few "pro-business/Republican-type" messages into our discourse (e.g., USM's contribution to the local economy, how good tech workers also have good training in COAL disciplines, etc.).

Just a thought...

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I agree. This is a TERRIBLE letter! It plays directly into the hands of Thames in allowing him to paint the faculty and supporters of USM as left-wing radicals. No doubt there are some strains of this that cut right/left, but there are registered Republicans, myself included, that are on the right side of this issue.

If I was Thames I'd pin this letter to my bulletin board, because it's exactly the kind of thing he wants printed. Don't forget, Lamar count went something like 70%+ for Bush, and Forrest wasn't too much better for Dems.

Anymore letters like this and the cause is DOA!

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Longhorn Eagle
"I agree. This is a TERRIBLE letter! It plays directly into the hands of Thames in allowing him to paint the faculty and supporters of USM as left-wing radicals. No doubt there are some strains of this that cut right/left, but there are registered Republicans, myself included, that are on the right side of this issue.

If I was Thames I'd pin this letter to my bulletin board, because it's exactly the kind of thing he wants printed. Don't forget, Lamar count went something like 70%+ for Bush, and Forrest wasn't too much better for Dems.

Anymore letters like this and the cause is DOA!

"

Don't be such a naysayer...letters to the editor are printed on the OPINION page...this is someone's OPINION, and he's entitled to have it.

Klumb makes the other side look WAY worse than any letter to the editor. At least, there is proper grammar and spelling here!

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Agreed, these are published on the "opinion page" -- but, they still serve to paint the entire faculty/movement with a single brush (do you really think most people in the community differentiate between fact/opinion/truth/reality?). Let's not reinforce any stereotypes about the faculty. Instead, let's hi-jack the pro-biz people's messages as our own.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: 8:19
"Agreed, these are published on the "opinion page" -- but, they still serve to paint the entire faculty/movement with a single brush (do you really think most people in the community differentiate between fact/opinion/truth/reality?). Let's not reinforce any stereotypes about the faculty. Instead, let's hi-jack the pro-biz people's messages as our own."

You're right, but they're going to paint the faculty with that brush regardless of what's printed in the paper. The real task is to do exactly what you said...ignore their rantings and beat them at their own game....a much harder task to accomplish.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Yes it is a great letter. One of the best yet to appear. But the writer spoiled it at the end. The letter, a great one, would have been an if the political agenda mentioned in these two sentence had been omitted:

"Apparently this "meeting" is an administration- and Republican-backed plot to turn USM into a technical institute . . . . Perhaps Republicans believe that liberal arts and physics train "evil Democrats."

Omitting those two unnecessary sentences would have in no way weakened the rest of the letter. And it would have captured a much wider audience.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

In the immor(t)al words of a Republican for whom I once voted, "I want to make one thing perfectly clear." I did NOT write that letter!

I've taken the pledge, y'know?

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I have to agree. I took it as a slap in the face, and I'm not sure what Dr. Fitzgerald's purpose was. Here's a clue: many, many Republicans are NOT rich, are NOT anti-intellectual and are NOT anti liberal arts. In Mississippi in particular, there are more Republicans driving old pickup trucks than there are driving a Lexus.
We just have to keep this stuff out of our present situation. We can fight about that later.
(I know we've about beaten this poor horse to death, but he keeps getting up.)

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
"Now that is a d--n good letter! There will be a Johnny Dupree sign in my yard as an anti-Thames protest as much as signifying who I will vote for. "

Anyone who thinks that the issues at USM can be discussed without looking at the political forces that are inspiring these changes is guilty of plunging one's head into the sand.

Fitzgerald nailed the problem right here:

Apparently this "meeting" is an administration- and Republican-backed plot to turn USM into a technical institute. Mrs. Drews made it clear that she supports changing the university's direction away from liberal arts and toward technology. Perhaps Republicans believe that liberal arts and physics train "evil Democrats."

Why does it pain some people on this board so much to acknowledge that the changes at USM are INDEED politically inspired--and inspired by Republican ideology. I guess it hurts to admit the truth and to see the folly of one's political identity.

Maybe it's time for Republicans who don't like what's going on at USM to admit the truth...conservative political ideology is fostering the changes at USM.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"

Don't be such a naysayer...letters to the editor are printed on the OPINION page...this is someone's OPINION, and he's entitled to have it.
"

Correction, Lamar County was 80% Bush; Forrest was 61% Bush. I know some people think this isn't relevant, but remember this is a public relations battle between us and Thames forces. If you want people in the community to understand and identify with the faculty, you don't do this by immediatly alienating roughly 70% of your audience. You must be proactive about identifying common ground with the cultural values of the community and the cultural values of a true university education.

I don't mean to drive this into the ground, but I honestly don't think we can remind ourselves of it enough. The one way to GUARANTEE another four years for Thames is to let him paint this as right/left. If you let people start thinking about liberal arts with a big L, then you've already lost.

No Quarter!

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Dear Liberal Student,

I have no idea how long you've been a participant on this board, but this Dem vs Rep issue has been exhaustively debated over nearly a year. You may see the issues in a different context, but many of us are interested in staying focused on the problem at hand and not allowing our group to be torn apart by partisan politics. There are people here working shoulder-to-shoulder who will never agree on their politics, but who agree on a set of core values which transcend politics.
At least half of the anti-Thames forces on campus, I would venture to say, and I am thinking of some big names, are Republicans. They do not have their heads in the sand, and they are not a part of the "plot" which is more about money than anything else.

I know liberal Dems (my own son & his wife) who are wonderful intelligent people, and I know liberal Dems who are elitist snobs of the worst order (no names.) This fight is about saving USM and the removal of SFT as its President.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Dear Liberal Liberal-Arts Student -- There's a great job waiting on you in the Kerry administration! Appreciate your passion, but let's be practical here.

All idealism of youth aside, we must win this war to save the university. We can debate these intellectually interesting, but impractical battle tactics in a seminar some day in the future (assuming USM survives as anything more than a tech institute). For now, we can't "boil the ocean", "save world hunger" or whatever metaphor you want to use...

Date: Mar 10, 2005

So, I guess from reading some of these posts that all Republicans in the surrounding area think that Shelby reflects the proper "cultural values" that they wish to see espoused? If that is true, and I seriously doubt it, then we might as well give up. If you oppose Shelby - as I said on a long-ago thread - then you Republicans need to stand up openly and say why it is that Shelby does not reflect your values. The business meeting includes the local leaders of the Republican party - is that a problem for you Republicans? Then let them know that - and do it publically. Don't chastise someone from the left who has the guts to stand up and be counted.

Why is it that the "liberals" and leftists in this area must hide their beliefs and committment to the university and community but so-called conservatives don't? Only those espousing a certain political ideology and certain cultural beliefs get to have a seat at the table? I guess this is what the framers of the Constitution, like James Madison, had in mind when they discussed the tyranny of the majority.

I like what Mr. Fitzgerald said and I personally agree with it - whether anyone else does or not is beside the point. Shelby needs to be opposed from all angles and all sides.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Longhorn Eagle
" Correction, Lamar County was 80% Bush; Forrest was 61% Bush. I know some people think this isn't relevant, but remember this is a public relations battle between us and Thames forces. If you want people in the community to understand and identify with the faculty, you don't do this by immediatly alienating roughly 70% of your audience. You must be proactive about identifying common ground with the cultural values of the community and the cultural values of a true university education. I don't mean to drive this into the ground, but I honestly don't think we can remind ourselves of it enough. The one way to GUARANTEE another four years for Thames is to let him paint this as right/left. If you let people start thinking about liberal arts with a big L, then you've already lost. No Quarter! "

Why should the situation at USM be any different from what is going on in national politics? Privitization of Social Security, privitization of many state and fed agencies, handing over the war in Iraq to contractors (namely Haliburton)--it only naturally follows that our universities should be handed over to the highest bidder, too.

Just because people in Mississippi pride themselves on their ignorance (equating Liberal Arts with liberal political ideology, for instance) does not mean that academicians have to play into their hands. How ignorant does one have to be to equate a liberal education with liberal political philosophy?

And I'll be damned if I'll just "shut up" because the majority of people in the area don't like my political affiliation. The problems at USM are larger than Forrest and Lamar counties and the fact that they voted for Bush. Sometimes you reap what you sow. Ask the medicaid patients who voted for Barbour.

Signed, a long-time Mississippi resident who has earned the right to comment on the idiocy that goes on in my home state.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Liberal Liberal-Arts Student
" Anyone who thinks that the issues at USM can be discussed without looking at the political forces that are inspiring these changes is guilty of plunging one's head into the sand. Fitzgerald nailed the problem right here: Apparently this "meeting" is an administration- and Republican-backed plot to turn USM into a technical institute. Mrs. Drews made it clear that she supports changing the university's direction away from liberal arts and toward technology. Perhaps Republicans believe that liberal arts and physics train "evil Democrats." Why does it pain some people on this board so much to acknowledge that the changes at USM are INDEED politically inspired--and inspired by Republican ideology. I guess it hurts to admit the truth and to see the folly of one's political identity. Maybe it's time for Republicans who don't like what's going on at USM to admit the truth...conservative political ideology is fostering the changes at USM."

I hope you have a long way to go before completing your education because there's a conspicuous lack of critical thinking in your post. It sounds as though you're mindlessly quoting from the Ted Kennedy-Howard Dean vitriol primer. You'd be well advised to digest the wisdom of LVN, Longhorn Eagle, and BR549 which appear earlier in this thread. Unsubstantiated blather about "Republican backed" plots does absolutely nothing constructive toward removing the Thames cancer from USM.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

LVN, I not only have participated in this board for almost a year; I originated the board, from which this board is the offspring, one year ago today.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Anti-Thames Conservative
""

Wow! That's ironic! A year ago, I was praised by the people you mention for my critical thinking skills that I exhibited in the many exposes that I wrote.

I agree that Thames needs to be opposed from all sides. But I also recognize the politics of the problem at USM. Please don't attack my opinion simply because of my political affiliation. And I beg the conservatives on this board to see past their own politics to realize that Republican-originated policies are contributing to the problems we are currently experiencing at USM.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
"So, I guess from reading some of these posts that all Republicans in the surrounding area think that Shelby reflects the proper "cultural values" that they wish to see espoused? "

And how do you arrive at this conclusion? No one here has stated or implied any such thing and your suggestion to the contrary is insulting. Several articulate and thoughtful posters have attempted to explain that the corruption and incompetence of Thames administration is not a Democratic-Republican issue. Do you not grasp the fact that your insistence on framing the Thames debate as political is a losing proposition? Evil and corruption are not peculiar to either major American political party, and are equally loathsome to all fair minded individuals.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Monster.com
"Dear Liberal Liberal-Arts Student -- There's a great job waiting on you in the Kerry administration! Appreciate your passion, but let's be practical here. All idealism of youth aside, we must win this war to save the university. We can debate these intellectually interesting, but impractical battle tactics in a seminar some day in the future (assuming USM survives as anything more than a tech institute). For now, we can't "boil the ocean", "save world hunger" or whatever metaphor you want to use..."

Monster,

Thanks for the compliment. At forty years old, I blush that you perceive me as youthful. But let me assure you that I know enough about the world that my views aren't based on merely youthful passion.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Anti-Thames Conservative
"And how do you arrive at this conclusion? No one here has stated or implied any such thing and your suggestion to the contrary is insulting. Several articulate and thoughtful posters have attempted to explain that the corruption and incompetence of Thames administration is not a Democratic-Republican issue. Do you not grasp the fact that your insistence on framing the Thames debate as political is a losing proposition? Evil and corruption are not peculiar to either major American political party, and are equally loathsome to all fair minded individuals. "

I don't think that Angeline has "insisted" on framing the issue as Democratic v. Republican. But he/she, like I, sees that politics are indeed contributing to the crisis.

I guess I find it really sad that many people in the community will side with Thames because they are Republicans and they perceive him as standing up for Republican values against the evil "liberal" faculty. What's even worse is that they will support Thames as the university crumbles to nothingness, against their own interests, simply because they THINK he represents their political beliefs.

I am not suggesting that Republicans should flock to my party. I am suggesting, however, that they should recognize that the situation at USM is being fostered by the privitization plank of the Republican platform.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Anti-Thames Conservative
"And how do you arrive at this conclusion? No one here has stated or implied any such thing and your suggestion to the contrary is insulting. Several articulate and thoughtful posters have attempted to explain that the corruption and incompetence of Thames administration is not a Democratic-Republican issue. Do you not grasp the fact that your insistence on framing the Thames debate as political is a losing proposition? Evil and corruption are not peculiar to either major American political party, and are equally loathsome to all fair minded individuals. "

I arrive at this conclusion by reading posts like this one above: If you want people in the community to understand and identify with the faculty, you don't do this by immediatly alienating roughly 70% of your audience. You must be proactive about identifying common ground with the cultural values of the community and the cultural values of a true university education.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
"I arrive at this conclusion by reading posts like this one above: If you want people in the community to understand and identify with the faculty, you don't do this by immediatly alienating roughly 70% of your audience. You must be proactive about identifying common ground with the cultural values of the community and the cultural values of a true university education. "

This will be my final comment on the matter, for which I'm sure you'll be grateful. This post you cite, by "Longhorn Eagle," was his own characterization of the USM "audience," based on recent regional voting patterns. Based on his analysis of those patterns, he offered a constructive suggestion as to crafting a winning strategy for those who seek to save USM. I do not see in his words, nor do I impute, any connection between one's political affiliation and Shelby Thames. Think of your freshman logic course. If Shelby Thames is a Republican, and Shelby Thames is evil, it does not necessarily follow that all Republicans are evil. That's all. Now I must go forth and mold young minds. Keep up the good fight. Oh, and NO QUARTER!

Date: Mar 10, 2005

Here's something for you all to chew on. TH is a dem and used to golf all the time with Jan Lacy. I think she's a dem too. How's that? I don't think all those big ole business people meeting tonight are republicans. Scary, huh?

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Anti-Thames Conservative
"This will be my final comment on the matter, for which I'm sure you'll be grateful. This post you cite, by "Longhorn Eagle," was his own characterization of the USM "audience," based on recent regional voting patterns. Based on his analysis of those patterns, he offered a constructive suggestion as to crafting a winning strategy for those who seek to save USM. I do not see in his words, nor do I impute, any connection between one's political affiliation and Shelby Thames. Think of your freshman logic course. If Shelby Thames is a Republican, and Shelby Thames is evil, it does not necessarily follow that all Republicans are evil. That's all. Now I must go forth and mold young minds. Keep up the good fight. Oh, and NO QUARTER! "

That's a strawman. No one said that because Shelby is an evil Republican all Republicans are evil. However, the liberals on this board have repeatedly been told to hush up, because this isn't a political issue; yet, at the same time, we are told that we need to tiptoe around the fact that some of the problems at USM are fostered by Republican ideology, because there are so many Republicans in Hattiesburg who will side with Thames just because he comes across as conservative. What that says to me is that it's the Republicans in Hattiesburg who support Thames against their own interests who need to think more critically.

Otherwise, no one would be reminding us liberals to hush-up, lest we alienate the conservative Thames supporters in the area.

Even rats know when to abandon a sinking ship.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Timber
"Here's something for you all to chew on. TH is a dem and used to golf all the time with Jan Lacy. I think she's a dem too. How's that? I don't think all those big ole business people meeting tonight are republicans. Scary, huh?"

And Haley Barbour was invited to speak at commencement in the summer of 2002, at which time he espoused all of the work Shelby had done to make USM paint-shop-central.

Didn't someone say that USM admin is looking to privitize the print shop at USM? Doesn't Jan Lacy own a print shop? And didn't Tim leave?

Date: Mar 10, 2005

If USM is allowed to go belly-up, Gov. Barbour will have a lot to answer for, and will probably lose substantial support in this end of the state. Many of us are extremely disappointed in him, as well as disappointed in a legislature that refuses to face the fact that we have to increase taxes. Mississippi will get what it's willing to pay for.
But I'm lucky, I guess: my parent who was in a nursing home on M'caid just died.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

I'm very sorry about your loss LVN.

Date: Mar 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Timber
"Here's something for you all to chew on. TH is a dem and used to golf all the time with Jan Lacy. I think she's a dem too. How's that? I don't think all those big ole business people meeting tonight are republicans. Scary, huh?"

Good point. I've got no idea who will constitute the 250-300 "businessmen" slated to attend tonight's festivities (I wasn't invited), but several of my friends, ALL of them active in the Democratic party, have mentioned that they'll be there. As far as I know, they're all great friends of the Thames family, either through his connections with the Baptist church, or as fellow members of the Hattiesburg Country Club. Most of them are very well-to-do, at least by Mississippi standards.