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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> CoAL Meeting
Post Info TOPIC: CoAL Meeting
Voice in the Wilderness

Date:
RE: CoAL Meeting
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Not getting$'worth,


If things are really this bad--and by gum there as bad elsewhere--you still need to remember as a future health care practitioner that there are procedures to stop a cycle of abuse.  You've surely are being trained how to spot the injuries resulting from physical abuse and about the psychological profile behind it--is the pattern behind the abuse you are suffering really any different?


I hope someone on line will forward this thread to SACS to alert them to the problem.  You could also call them at (404) 679-4500 and ask to speak to someone on a provisionally confidential basis to see what they might be able to do.  Or get a lawyer.  But if you do nothing, you are perpetuating a cycle of abuse that could literally kill people, because a shortage of nurses will mean a higher mortality rate. 


Are you so scared that you would be willing to have that on your conscience? Think about it.



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Voice in the Wilderness

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Sorry, there = they're.

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Green Hornet

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quote:
Originally posted by: Voice in the Wilderness
"Not getting$'worth, If things are really this bad--and by gum there as bad elsewhere--you still need to remember as a future health care practitioner that there are procedures to stop a cycle of abuse.  You've surely are being trained how to spot the injuries resulting from physical abuse and about the psychological profile behind it--is the pattern behind the abuse you are suffering really any different? I hope someone on line will forward this thread to SACS to alert them to the problem.  You could also call them at (404) 679-4500 and ask to speak to someone on a provisionally confidential basis to see what they might be able to do.  Or get a lawyer.  But if you do nothing, you are perpetuating a cycle of abuse that could literally kill people, because a shortage of nurses will mean a higher mortality rate.  Are you so scared that you would be willing to have that on your conscience? Think about it."
MESSAGE TO OTHERS:  What campus resources are available to students in the School of Nursing??????  Is this a situation that Becky Woodrick's office could assist with.  This sounds like a question of abuse (administrative abuse of power, lack of administrative support, threats to students, etc.)  Anyone have suggestions for "Notgetting $'worth"

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notgetting$'sworth

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Yeah, your telling me.  I feel like I'm in elementary school again....if you do something wrong you get sent to the "principals office".   It's so stupid if it weren't for us that administration would not get a pay check. 


They moan and complain about how bad the NCLEX scores are making them look, but the biggest change in scores has been in the last 2 years.....ever since we got our new administration that like to go on vacation too much.  Hey it's just like leaving your house to go on vacation....you leave for very long and your weeds grow up and it starts to look like crap.  Well the administration has not "kept their house up" and it's all starting to go to pot.


They like to blame us for what's happening and therefore change the grading scale, but I've got a newsflash for them......they need to talk a real good luck in the mirror because when NCLEX for this graduating class comes in and turns out to be just as darn bad they are going to run out of people to blame and will look like the bloomin' idiots that they are.   They all need to go back to being nurses and quit thinking they have what it takes to run a nursing school.



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Whatsamatta U

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RE: School of Nursing
Permalink Closed

Dear gentle readers and "Not getting...":  The last few posts are hard to read, I am sure they are affecting all who post on this Board. I am no psychologist but the pain in these postings and in the letters to the HA are overwhelming.   Will SOMEONE one or off this board please listen, respond and DO something?  The students AND faculty need an advocate in the worst way, someone who will NOT be vulnerable to perceived repercussions.  I am not sure that the students have valid fears from the nursing administration concerning dismissal, etc.  nevertheless, if it FEELS that way, that is all that matters.  Dr. Nugent came here to provide her own vision and leadership for a School/College that was already sinking fast...she was not responsible for the damage. Counting an interim director, Dr. Nugent is the fourth administrator in three years, I suppose there are exceptions, but this does not generally reflect a place anyone wants to lead.  She should receive the credit for coming here and remaining here, with her credentials she could easily be elsewhere and the faculty are well aware of this and are concerned that she will leave any day.  No one on faculty will step up; the assistant director has already resigned in May, as have all the nursing administrators at the Gulf Coast campus.  Dr. Nugent and the faculty have everything to lose if their students are dissatisfied, stressed, and anxious, doing poorly, and are ready to jump ship...it may appear that no one cares but they do. Remember that nursing faculty can easily work in clinical practice for three to four times the salary that USM offers, any one of them could resign and have a good paying job in the health field this afternoon.  No exceptions.  The FNP faculty and doctorally prepared faculty are even more in demand and most could leave today for a higher paying position at a much more prestigious and nurturing environment IN OUR OWN STATE.   For the students, that is not getting across (that faculty have chosen to be here or stay here) and that is very, very serious; perceived abuse and neglect is no different from real experiences and should be addressed as expressed.  However, if the faculty, administration, and students are terrified of speaking up, surely, someone out there will DO SOMETHING, get the ball rolling so that this does not explode and damage the entire community for years to come. A few students CANNOT organize anything; they are too concerned about their identity.  Most faculty are not tenured, nothing needs to be said, senior faculty are leaving and would rather complete their tenure at USM rather than be cut short by perceived threats at the supper echelons of USM.   Nurses must be valued and protected and their status ensured in a community; otherwise, the entire community's health is threatened.  Do you want a nurse caring for you and your loved ones who is damaged, angry, disconnected from their school of nursing, and bent on revenge (read the letters in the Hattiesburg American for just the tip of the iceberg) against the faculty?  These students are our future (especially those of us closer to the aging end of the spectrum) to use a tired cliché; USM graduates are MOST likely to be caring for you because of the numbers and the program needs to close down if we cannot do any better than this for these special and dedicated people who deserve our critical attention.  They give of themselves everyday of the year to meet others needs, they are the ones who embody compassion and make the difference in OUR health,--can’t we for once give them a compassionate hand? Will no one step up to the plate and grab the mike?  Kevin Walters tried, now that story is old news.  Ideas anyone?  Please, do not let this thread be archived as another fatality report of this administration. 



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Been there - Done that

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RE: CoAL Meeting
Permalink Closed

Can you quietly pass the word for all students and professors in the school to write the suggested letter by info to the legislature. If everybody writes then I don't see how a whole school can be punished. You are going to have to speak out if you expect to get help. Wish I could do more, I can feel the pain in your words.

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Docs, it's time

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You need to get George McGee, Hootie Hatten and a few of those guys to get on board with this. Unless they enjoy emptying bedpans themselves.

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notgetting$'sworth

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I understand that Dr. Nugent tries, but there is a thing they like to tell us in nursing school all the time.........TRY HARDER! Again, all I have to say is quit blaming us student for crap that's not our fault.   If two years worth of nursing students are failing the NCLEX and the pass rate has been 70 for God knows how many years, it't not the student fault that they are not meeting the standards.  Obviously the students for all the years before had a pass rate of 70 and passed the NCLEX with no problems......it's just in the last 2 years that pass rates have fallen and it's because we have hardly any qualified teachers.    And yes thy can make more money at a hospital than teaching us and yeah maybe they do teach because they "love it" but that still does not make them good teachers.  You can love to do something and still be sorry at what you do.  Also some of the teachers who are teaching us, particularly one, is "disabled" and cannot be in the field anymore because it's hard work....so she just comes to teach nursing school to have some kind of paycheck, but she even told us she does not like teaching and if she had the choice would be back in nursing again (same teacher who has never taught before that I talked about a few days ago).  Excuse me, but when you come to teach a class you should know what your talking about...she has to ask us what certain definitions mean that we learned our first semester here as student, something is wrong with that picture.


Are you talking about the assistant dean Dr. Morris resigning?  I sure hope so becasue that lady has no business being an administrator and I think she finally must have figured that out.  I like Dr. Nugent a whole lot better than Dr. Morris.  You can tell Dr. morris that a teacher is not teaching the class and she'll tell you that nursing school is a "self study" type of degree.  Correct me if I'm wrong but since when have nurses taught themselves how to care for patients?  Or answer this question...If it is supposed to be self study and you were in the hospital and had a choice between a nursing student who taught herself and a nursing student who was taught by professionals and other nurses, whom would you choose?  That's all I've gotta say for now, I think that pretty much covers it.


 


 


 



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Green Hornet

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: notgetting$'sworth
"I understand that Dr. Nugent tries,
 
 
 "



Notgetting$'sworth, Dr. Nugent sounds like someone you can talk to. Is this the case?
YOU and the other students in nursing NEED to address the problems in your school.
Perhaps she is the one you (or a group) can go to without repercussions???????

If nothing else, what can we (those who post on this thread/board) do to help you?

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Steve Oshrin

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"


Notgetting$'sworth, Dr. Nugent sounds like someone you can talk to. Is this the case?
YOU and the other students in nursing NEED to address the problems in your school.
Perhaps she is the one you (or a group) can go to without repercussions???????

If nothing else, what can we (those who post on this thread/board) do to help you?"


I'll second the suggestion to talk to Dr. Nugent - I've had the opportunity to interact with her on numerous occasions in the COH and I've found her to be a willing listener and open to suggestions. Give her an opportunity to hear you out -


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system option

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"MESSAGE TO OTHERS:  What campus resources are available to students in the School of Nursing??????  Is this a situation that Becky Woodrick's office could assist with.  This sounds like a question of abuse (administrative abuse of power, lack of administrative support, threats to students, etc.)  Anyone have suggestions for "Notgetting $'worth""
Not Woodrick.  I believe that a collective student grievance can be filed with the provost's office and must be processed within a specified time period.  Now that would be interesting.

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Green Hornet

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: system option
"Not Woodrick.  I believe that a collective student grievance can be filed with the provost's office and must be processed within a specified time period.  Now that would be interesting. "



The grievance option would be interesting to see. But why NOT Woodrick? Abuse is abuse, threats to students and impact of the learning process and a hostile environment are Title IX issues.

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notgetting$'sworth

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RE: Dr. Nugent
Permalink Closed

She seems like a person you can talk to, problem is before you can talk to her you have to talk to Dr. Morris (chain of command thing again) who tells you that she'll take care of it and there's no need to get an appointment with Dr. Nugent.  I've tried several times to get an appointment with her and I'm always turned down by either her secretary or Dr. Morris.  One student who actually did talk to her (about our teacher who has never taught before and is unexperienced) asked for help in that class and she said she would get us an assisstant to help her but we never saw the first sign of an assistant.  Also in one of our classes we had a test where 2/3 of the class failed it and no one made above a C.  When student told Dr. Nugent, she said she would do something and we haven't heard anything else from that either although the professors did work with us some in that class on helping a little more.  What I'm getting to is that yeah she's nice, and she says she'll do things to help us but saying and doing are two different things......which is why the students went straight to the media.  I know for a fact that they tried to get an appointment with Dr. Nugent (after talking with Dr. MOrris) and could not, so they tried to get an appointment with Dr. Fos (which by the way i have established that is IMPOSSIBLE) and their last resort to get their attention on the issue was the media......do you blame them? 


Back to Dr. Fos.  You can call and call and call to get an appointment with him and unless your Jesus Christ, he wants nothing to do with you and tells you to talk to Dr. Nugent and if that does not work he'll talk to you.  If you call and say "I have tried talking to Dr. Nugent and cannot ever get an appointment and my issue needs immediate attention", his secretary (which by the way has no business answering a phone with such a nasty attitude) just tells you to try harder.


I really do think we've done everything we can as far as trying to rationalize with the administration.  A lot of students are leaving to START OVER at other colleges.  See nursing classes do not transfer for some reason and many students are so dis-satisfied they are leaving and starting over, which says a lot because nursing school is TOUGH!  One student who talked to Dr. Morris before she left said that Dr. Morris told her to type out and sign an explanation as to why she was leaving to go elsewhere.  This student was busy and after two days had still not gotten it to her, Dr. morris then called her and said (I quote the student told me this) "If you don't get that to me with your signature on it I'm just going to have to write all sorts of things in your file as to why you are leaving this university".   Now I don't know what she meant by that but according to the student, who said she ws ugly about it, that sounded like a threat to me.



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Green Hornet

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: notgetting$'sworth
" One student who talked to Dr. Morris before she left said that Dr. Morris told her to type out and sign an explanation as to why she was leaving to go elsewhere.  This student was busy and after two days had still not gotten it to her, Dr. morris then called her and said (I quote the student told me this) "If you don't get that to me with your signature on it I'm just going to have to write all sorts of things in your file as to why you are leaving this university".   Now I don't know what she meant by that but according to the student, who said she ws ugly about it, that sounded like a threat to me."

IS Dr. Morris still here or has she resigned from the university?


 


Unless you can talk to Dr. Nuggent and discuss the problems facing the SoN, your faced with few options.  If a student is intent on leaving, the institution and the faculty advisors have failed the student.  Students leave for various reasons, illness, health-related issues, family problems, financial, or just personal reasons.  Many times if an administrator asks for a "letter" that letter can state that "for personal reasons, I wish to withdraw from this institution and reassess my goals".  It's unfortunate when this happens.  In addition, I see no hope for your school of nursing unless you develop and/or explore your options.


 


I feel sorry the situation and that of your fellow students has become so desperate.


 


Some suggested options are to:  Stay, study and graduate.


 


OR:  file a grievance with the provost’s office as was earlier mentioned, contact Becky Woodrick’s office if you feel your rights have been violated, stage a (peaceful) protest in front of the dome like the one that occurred after the colleges reorganized (and thus generate media attention) or leave like your fellow students for greener pastures. 


 


Anyone else have suggestions?????


 


 



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Chain of command

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"  Anyone else have suggestions?????   "
If the student's academic advisor, dean or director, an appropriate vp, or the president, can't discuss this with the student and come to some sort of reasonable resolution, the institution is in bad shape.

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Don't let the door bump you as you leave

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RE: CoAL Meeting
Permalink Closed

I've never worked at a university that did not have an open door policy at all levels.

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Tim Russert

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Meet The Press

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Green Hornet

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quote:
Originally posted by: Don't let the door bump you as you leave
"I've never worked at a university that did not have an open door policy at all levels. "
According to Sunday's Hattiesburg American listed under QUOTES on the editoral page; SFT says he has an open door policy, but I don't believe it.

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Outside Observer

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quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"According to Sunday's Hattiesburg American listed under QUOTES on the editoral page; SFT says he has an open door policy, but I don't believe it."
An open door policy is irrelevant if employees do not feel comfortable using it.  A better measure of whether an organization has an open door policy, in more than name only, is the number of employees who actually make use of it.

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Love Thy Neighbor

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Dr. Thames definately doesn't have an open door policy. No one can get in to see him with out going through at least 5 people and you had better have a reason that they approve of or you can forget it. I don't even know how he can say that with a straight face.

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coal bin

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In a well managed organization you don't need an "open door" policy.  A good manager will do some MBWA (management by walking around).  You didn't have to go looking for administrators before Fleming as these people seemed to like to talk to students, staff, and faculty.  The thought of AKL zipping around campus on a tarted up golf cart doesn't conjure up easily.

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Jameela Lares

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It is my understanding that SACS requires member institutions to have a well-published internal complaint mechanism, and such mechanism should be in writing.  "Come talk to me," even if honored in the observance rather than the breach, does not constitute a complaint policy because it does not leave a paper trail.


Students can file individual complaints with SACS.  Their complaint policy can be accessed at:
http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/complaintpolicy.pdf


Jameela



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Elementary ed student

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I have just written my SACS complaint - when can I write one to NCATE?

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stinky cheese man

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as a point of information, there is a written grievance procedure for students outlined in the student handbook (this isn't the grade grievance procedure). It begins on page 54. The handbook is available online and in the office of the Vice President for Student Affairs.

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