Economic Development Question? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 24, 2005

Economic Development Question?

Date: Feb 24, 2005

I think one of the issues I have with "economic development" & "workforce training" doesn't have to do so much with the USM programs in those areas as it does with the way they have been implemented in Mississippi.

After typing a much longer response, I decided that discretion is the better part of valor. Let's just say that workforce training in Missisissippi has been a hotbed of nepotism, political cronyism & complete lack of accountability.

If this is the "wave of the future" that some of the Shelbotrolls keep saying it is, then it sure sounds like a big leap back to around 1932.

Date: Feb 24, 2005

I remember a post a while back from a Business faculty member about an on-campus appearance by Amartya Sen, a real live world-class expert on economic development. Supposedly, none of the ED crowd bothered to attend the reception for him.

The CoB professor also wondered whether Ken Malone knows who Sen is. I suspect that Malone has no idea who he is, and would have no use for him even if he did know.

There are legitimate ED programs. One that meets the requirements to operate in a College of Business has a much better chance of being legit than one that doesn't--simply because economics and the business disciplines play a major role in economic development, properly understood.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 24, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"There are legitimate ED programs. One that meets the requirements to operate in a College of Business has a much better chance of being legit than one that doesn't--simply because economics and the business disciplines play a major role in economic development, properly understood. Robert Campbell "

Yup, but not one that excludes the economists, ignores the governance of the college, and tries to end-run around accreditation.

Date: Feb 24, 2005

I think that may be the biggest hangup: that is, how can you have a program that is essentially business operating outside the College of Business? And you're right, it seems obvious the people in charge of the ED program leave much to be desired.

The magic quality of ED is that it is so ambiguous. The term "economic development" doesn't have any inherent meaning to most people: essentially, they just project onto it whatever they think it means. Is is business? macro or micro economics? finance? public affairs? governmental administrative policy? fiscal or monetary policy?etc...? Is it a light gloss on all of the above?

My suspicion is that it feigns the methodology and rigor of any or all of the above, repackages it into digestable bites that look good at Rotary Club meetings, and uses it as a vehicle for siphoning off the public treasury lucrative tax incentives for private corporations. Professional EDers like Dvorak remind me of that Simpsons episode where everyone decides to build the monorail in Springfield.

But having said that, 20 years down the road, will it be a positive that USM has an ED center? Does the discipline have a future?

Date: Feb 24, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Longhorn Eagle
"But having said that, 20 years down the road, will it be a positive that USM has an ED center? Does the discipline have a future? "

An interesting question. I wonder if economic development really resulted in economic development whether at some point in the future we wouldn't need to develop the economy but rather let it operate on its own.

Is it ironic that the same political factions that favor letting "market forces" determine whether businesses succeed or fail are the same ones that favor providing a lot of support for communities that aren't succeeding in attracting jobs.

I posted this reference before, but it's worth locating & reading:

Neal, Robert. "Mississippi's Economic Development Incentives: Some Basic Questions." Mississippi Economic Review & Outlook, Center for Policy Research & Planning, Mississippi Institutions of Higher Learning (December 2004), pp. 22-27.

[Will the pedants around here please forgive me for not using a proper citation style?

]

Date: Feb 24, 2005

Congratulations once again to the genious of Robert Campbell.

B I N G O

I know the CoBer who posted that and he was right, no ED folks cared to join. They wouldn't have understood a word he said.

Great take and 100% right on. Oh, Sen won the NOBEL PRIZE too. Just thought I'd add that little bit of spice. Yes, the only Nobel Laureau to visit USM that I know of, and it was in Economic Development, yes Malone!!!!!, and it was hosted by CoB, and it was snubbed by all the Geography pseduo wannabe business profs teaching Tim Hudson's Baby.

Don't laugh board, but REALLY,,,,,,it REALLY is Tim Hudson's fault on this one and there are good strings on that in the archives.

Now to Longhorn.............Yes sir. You have ably, even though you had tongue in cheek, sort of described ED in the Tim Hudson multi-cultural multi-disciplinary anything be all to all slick back Rolex package.

The sad part is, with not too many modifications, and perhaps with a quality hybrid delivery system that passes AACSB, we could have one helluva ED program that would be the envy of other schools, and a money juggernaut to boot. I say that in all honesty, but the current participants would not be qualified to run such a program.

Yes, the comments about CoB made in the newspaper by administration were totally unprofessional and uncalled for and unprecedented in American higher eduacation. The B school is always a shining jewel held up by good universities, and never in one's lifetime would such comments pass but in this stupid town of rednecks and swarmy smarmy small town newspaper reporters, it is just another comment that is not called.

I understand that COST is just tickled pink to have ED because there are no accrediation standards to meet and they can bring in those indirect dollars. That is all there is to this.

Date: Feb 24, 2005

Economic development has evolved into a sad joke in most places that involves taxpayer incentives to lure businesses to states. Most companies seeking to relocate are savy at playing one state off another in order to get the best incentives.

Politicians like them becuase tax incentives that lure businesses provide ample opportunities for photo ops at ribbon cutting ceremonies with executive directors of economic development organizations (they are they guys with $50 haircuts and $500 suites) taking credit for creating 2000 plus jobs over the last X years.

Most economic development officials wouldn't know an IMPLAN social accounting matrix (econ impact modelling) from a heteroscedasticity issue in a regression forecasting model.

Date: Feb 24, 2005

I have a question.

The legitimacy of "economic development" as a viable discipline has received a great deal of attention on this message board. I think I know a rather back-door way of helping to resolve that issue.

If one asks a physicist, a chemist, a biologist, a physicist, a psychologist, or an economist to identify three prominent living scholars in their respective field, and their institutional or other primary affiliation, their none of them would blink an eye. Each could provide without hesitation the names of three prominent scholars. Some Nobel laureates would undoubtedly be included among the responses.

My question: name three prominent living scholars who identify their discipline as economic development, and their institutional (department, agency, or school) or other primary affiliation.

If nobody can name three, the discussion is moot.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

Can anyone list the names of other institutions that offer such degrees, or even offer it as an undergraduate major/specialization, either?

A quick web search was deceiving for me. For example, the University of Nevada-Reno and the University of Illinois-Urbana both have Economic Development centers of some sort. But neither offers any type of degree in the subject and the "centers" are federally funded small business development resource type thinktanks that offer "extension-service style support" to state and local groups (according to their websites). In other words, they both have nothing to do with the subject in its scholarly practice.

To be honest, I couldn't find a single other university that offers degrees (of any type, BS, MS, PhD, whatever) in "Economic Development." Lots of schools, I found, offer more "traditional" subjects that encompass such a topic, such as Urban Planning, Public Affairs, Public Policy, Economics, etc.

It seems rather noteworthy to me that I haven't been able to find a single school that deems "Economic Development" significant enough an area to devote an entire scholarly specialization in simply it.

(I'll leave out my own opinons that ED should really be a course or two within a larger, more broad scholarly speciality like Urban Planning or Public Policy or the like...)

Date: Feb 25, 2005

George Mason University has a Ph.D. program in Public Policy that includes a concentration that could be called Economic Development. Looking at the requirements and coursework, it appears to be legit. Heavy doses of economics, stat, and other related courses. Some previous information I saw on the program was that they had about 40 students in various stages of completion and twenty some faculty members listed as contributing to the program. However, there does not appear to be a separate economic development unit. My quick evaluation of the program is that it is academically oriented and quite respectable.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

Exactly, Cossack, a concentration within another area. My point exactly!

Date: Feb 25, 2005

I really wasn't asking if other schools had programs called economic development. They do exist, and that was a topic of discussion on this message board some time ago. I was just wondering if anybody could name three living scholars in that area + their institutional identification. And I wasn't referring to identifying such people through a Google search. Even without resorting to a Google search, I can identify three such scholars in chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, and economics. But I can't do that with regard to economic development. Somebody mentioned George Mason's program in Public Policy. I am well acquaintd with that program. It is an old and distinguished one, and through the years I have known some of their people personally. They have attracted some star-studded economists and political scientists. But I still feel that a preliminary litmus test for determining the status of "economic development" is whether or not nationally known scholars can be identified in that field. Any takers?

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Is it ironic that the same political factions that favor letting "market forces" determine whether businesses succeed or fail are the same ones that favor providing a lot of support for communities that aren't succeeding in attracting jobs."

The kinds of business interests that line up behind Thames, Malone, and A. Dvorak are the ones that think that market forces are for the other guy.

The Hybrid Plastics model--$25M worth of tax-supported lab space, handed over to a company that brings in $5M a year--pretty much sums it up.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Three's company
"I really wasn't asking if other schools had programs called economic development. They do exist, and that was a topic of discussion on this message board some time ago. I was just wondering if anybody could name three living scholars in that area + their institutional identification. And I wasn't referring to identifying such people through a Google search. Even without resorting to a Google search, I can identify three such scholars in chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, and economics. But I can't do that with regard to economic development. Somebody mentioned George Mason's program in Public Policy. I am well acquaintd with that program. It is an old and distinguished one, and through the years I have known some of their people personally. They have attracted some star-studded economists and political scientists. But I still feel that a preliminary litmus test for determining the status of "economic development" is whether or not nationally known scholars can be identified in that field. Any takers?"

Be careful with this line of thought, however, because the ED folks try and make the case that this is such a "unique", "cutting edge", "first of its kind", "one and only" sort of program. Your point sets the stage for them to launch the argument that their people will be those famous names - by hiring and promoting thier own, of course.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

their

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: CW Fan
"
Most economic development officials wouldn't know an IMPLAN social accounting matrix (econ impact modelling) from a heteroscedasticity issue in a regression forecasting model."

I know this is technical stuff, but I hope Mr. Wonderful takes note of this quote.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

Here is one name for you: Michael E. Porter, the Bishop William Lawrence University Professor, based at the Harvard Business School: http://dor.hbs.edu/fi_redirect.jhtml?facInfo=bio&facEmId=mporter

He is a leading authority on the competitiveness and economic development of nations, states, and regions. Porter’s ideas on clusters have given rise to a large body of research on new cluster-based economic development approaches.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

did i miss it or has there been a lack of economic development activity in the hattiesburg area since angie took over?? the only thing i have noticed is the monthly 2 page spread in ha showing new members and ribbon cuttings for small businesses and ads to hire more people for the adp(that is what the local econ dev is called?)

nothing new on the spec building in the industrial park. 2 years ago big push to buy more land for the industrial park south of town, new business coming to purvis, etc

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Coast Resident
"Here is one name for you: Michael E. Porter, the Bishop William Lawrence University Professor, based at the Harvard Business School: http://dor.hbs.edu/fi_redirect.jhtml?facInfo=bio&facEmId=mporter He is a leading authority on the competitiveness and economic development of nations, states, and regions. Porter’s ideas on clusters have given rise to a large body of research on new cluster-based economic development approaches."

I cut my teeth on Porter's work in graduate school 25 years ago as I'm sure did many others of you who are of an age. Many of us support the concepts, what we don't support is the low quality implementation.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

And note that Porter is in the (gasp!) business school. How could he possible contribute to such a new and cutting edge discipline as ED?

Professor Porter contributed greatly to the efforts to create a telecommunications cluster here in MS. This effort, a couple of years ago, brought together many of the high-tech and telecomm businesses in our state.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: CW Fan
"
Most economic development officials wouldn't know an IMPLAN social accounting matrix (econ impact modelling) from a heteroscedasticity issue in a regression forecasting model."

CW fan,

I just want to hear some economic development officials try to say "heteroscedasticity."

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 25, 2005

Telecommunications in Mississippi...now who could that mean?

Date: Feb 25, 2005

Telecommunications in MS? Yes and which programs at USM are involved? Computer Science in COST? MIS in COB? Business Technology in COEP? I hear that JCCC and PRCC are the "universities" involved while USM's role is through ED. It appears that ED is the one program that includes all other disciplines and takes for itself all the involvement in the business community but never attempts to involve any other disciplines in their "multi-disciplinary" programs. Looking for answers as to why the excellent faculty in all of these disciplines appear to be kept out of such efforts.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

I'll admit to my bias of mistrust up front on this issue but I did a quick google that raised your credibility. Will you share more?

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" I know this is technical stuff, but I hope Mr. Wonderful takes note of this quote. "

Three hours late acknowledging this, but duly noted.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Mr. Wonderful
"Three hours late acknowledging this, but duly noted."

I notice that you got his name right.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Coast Resident
"Here is one name for you: Michael E. Porter, the Bishop William Lawrence University Professor, based at the Harvard Business School"

I'll buy that, Coast Resident. So that's one down and two to go.

As an aside, I see that Professor Porter seems to have a background in and appreciation of the liberal arts: "He maintains a long-time interest in the esthetics and business of music and art, having worked on the problems of strategy with arts organizations and aspiring musicians."

Has USM's economic development program brought in a knowlegable consultant such as Professor Porter as it develops its program? Or us USM's goal different than that of any knowledgable consultant? Any thoughts on this?

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Malapropism
"I notice that you got his name right."

I heard that, Mal.

Date: Feb 25, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Mr. Wonderful
"I heard that, Mal."

Correction: "I heard that, Mal."