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Post Info TOPIC: To Invictus From Emma (w.Keith's permission)
Emma- American Pie discussion cont.

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To Invictus From Emma (w.Keith's permission)
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This is interesting, but I am not certain that his line-by-line
interpretation is a correct interpretation of the song.  I have thought
about this only breifly, but it seems to me that he misinterpreted some key
aspects of the song, and below I have set out how I would have thought of
them:

A long, long time ago...

I can still remember how That music used to make me smile. And I knew if I
had my chance, That I could make those people dance, And maybe they'd be
happy for a while.
But February made me shiver,
With every paper I'd deliver,
Bad news on the doorstep... I couldn't take one more step. I can't remember
if I cried When I read about his widowed bride
But something touched me deep inside, The day the music died.


*Keith's interpretation - I think that the critic erred in interpreting the
first stanza of the song line-by-line, rather than in its totality.  "A
long, long time ago..." is a common device used in the beginning of fairy
tales to establish temporal and spatial distance from the present moment,
thus implying that the author's childhood lies in some far and away
forgotten place, with which he has real difficulty connecting now.   
Although the remainder of the stanza is ostensibly related to the day Buddy
Holly died, and does establish the historical timeframe, it also serves to
place distance between the current mentality of the author and his past. 
"And I knew if I had my chance, That I could make those people dance, And
maybe they'd be happy for a while" recalls the author's youthful delusion
that he could do something as an adult to make both himself and others
happy, and "the day the music died" represents by synecdoche the gradual
death of dreams.


REFRAIN:

Bye bye Miss American Pie,
I drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry, Them good ol' boys were
drinkin' whiskey and rye Singing "This'll be the day that I die, This'll be
the day that I die."


*Keith's interpretation - I think the critic placed too much emphasis on
historical events that occurred during the period between Buddy Holly's
death and the writing of the song (c. 1970).  A more correct interpretation
of the refrain is that it serves to re-inforce the author's current
alienation from his connected past.  The author presumably was along with
the "good old boys drinking whisky and rye" in 1959, but by 1970 had, due to
his success, moved into a different world than his former peers, and found
himself increasingly alienated from his former milieu.  The "good old boys"
of 1959 were young men who thought that Buddy Holly's death was the "end of
the world", but would realize during the next decade that he was a celebrity
that they didn't know, and that the world would end many times before they
died.



(Verse 2) Did you write the book of love,
And do you have faith in God above, If the Bible tells you so?
Now do you believe in rock 'n roll?
Can music save your mortal soul? And can you teach me how to dance real
slow?

*Keith's interpretation - Once again, the critic attempts to develop a
"grand unifying theory" of rock and roll and historical events, when a more
obvious interpretation is once again to assume that the author was looking
back on beliefs he once held, and examining whether they were still
meaningful in his life.  The author seems to ask rhetorically "do you have
faith in God above" and "NOW [emphasis mine] do you believe in rock 'n
roll?"  In other words, did you discard your belief in God for a faith in
rock 'n roll, and do still believe in even that, or are you empty and devoid
of all belief?

Well I know that you're in love with him 'Cause I saw you dancing in the gym
You both kicked off your shoes
Man, I dig those rhythm 'n' blues
I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck With a pink carnation and a pickup
truck
But I knew that I was out of luck The day the music died I started
singing...

*Keith's interpretation - These lines recall again the youthful innocence of
the author at the time of Buddy Holly's death;  the author is so young and
foolish as to believe that dancing in the gym could signal a lifetime
commitment to another teenager.  Although this is probably quite a common
misinterpretation of dancing from the teenagers' point of view, I think that
the critic missed this badly with his assumption that dancing in the gym
used to signal a greater intimacy than it now does.  The final line, "But I
knew that I was out of luck The day the music died," indicates that the
author was cognizant enough to know that life had changed forever, even if
he knew not in what manner or how completely it had changed.


Refrain - see above for Keith's interpretation



(Verse 3) Now for ten years we've been on our own
And moss grows fat on a rolling stone
But that's not how it used to be When the jester sang for the King and Queen
In a coat he borrowed from James Dean
And a voice that came from you and me
Oh, and while the King was looking down The jester stole his thorny crown

*Keith's interpretation - I think that the critic's interpretation of the
"jester" and "a rolling stone" alluding to Bob Dylan and/or The Rolling
Stones is only partially correct.  I think that the line "moss grows fat on
a rolling stone" is an ironic commentary on the author's own situation - in
other words that a former "rolling stone" is now bogged down by the
commitments and obligations of adult life.    The line "In a coat he
borrowed from James Dean" indicates that the author's generation rebelled
against its predecessors, but probably only after a pattern established by
James Dean or other "rebels" of that generation (such as Marlon Brando).  I
am reminded of an episode of "The Simpsons" in which Bart had his ear
pierced, and Lisa remarked "that is so rebellious in a conformist sort of
way."  This is the point the author makes - his generation rebelled, but
only in the pattern of James Dean, and did not rebel very far in the end. "
Oh, and while the King was looking down The jester stole his thorny crown"
refers to the inevitable fact that while one generation is concentrating on
running the world, it's children (the jester) supplant it by the slow
erosion of time, regardless of their fitness for such a succession.


The courtroom was adjourned, No verdict was returned.


*Keith's interpretation - Although this scene has been played out, the drama
of life will continue ad infinitum.


__________________
Drunken Stupor

Date:
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I'm obviously not Invictus, but this reminds me of a great memory I have related to this song. I was in a bar with a friend when a female of ill repute (who just so happened to have the worst speaking voice I have ever heard -- think Chandler's girlfriend Janice on "Friends" or Fran from "The Nanny") walked up to talk to us. This song was playing, and my friend, who had never, ever sung in public before, runs up onto the stage and startes belting out McLean's lyrics. I was left to deal with the fallout, and more than an hour later, I pried myself away from the succubus and got the heck out of there. My friend, who had ridden with me, had to walk home (5 miles or so) in the rain, and I later told him it was almost an even trade. Whenever I hear this song, I think of an hour's worth of that voice shrieking about how good her beer was and how much she liked her new purse. Bye, bye, Miss Horrific Bar Fly....

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Emma

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for you, it WAS the day the music died. I only addressed Invictus because of a website he introduced to us last night, and I didn't want people who weren't interested to even read this thread. But, I'm glad that you responded.

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Patti

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Speaking of memories with the song, when my youngest was oh, sevenish, he loved the song, sang it daily, and finally looked at me and said "Mom, what's a levee?"

__________________
Tone deaf non- writer

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quote:

Originally posted by: Emma

"for you, it WAS the day the music died. I only addressed Invictus because of a website he introduced to us last night, and I didn't want people who weren't interested to even read this thread. But, I'm glad that you responded."

Emma, I never bought into the traditional interpretation of American Pie. Yours is quite good, I think. I suppose that interpreting what Don M. really meant in his American Pie lines is of little interest to most, but there are some that take it seriously and there is a body of published literature on the subject. Your interpretation merits consideration there. I once did a Google search on the subject and was pleasantly surprised. It's sort of a cross between music and literature.

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View from a Distance

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I like this! Don McLean himself absolutely dodged interpreting the lyrics, offending talk show hosts by doing so when necessary. If the real interpretation was the one Invictus offers, that is exactly what he would do!

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First Ant at the Picnic

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Emma, you have just "outed" yourself through your insightful interpretation of American Pie. You are really Don McLean, the song's author, posting incognito by using the pseudonym Emma, aren't you?

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Invictus

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Which website did I link to, Emma?

I engaged in the game of interpreting "American Pie" back in the '70s. Almost everybody I knew did to some extent. But I agree with Keith that it's better to go with the big picture than to focus on individual lines. It's sorta like "not seeing the forest for the trees" to get hung up on lines.

That said, I think the allusion to Dylan as the "jester" is pretty obvious. Bob's 1967 motorcycle crash left him "on the sideline in a cast" while Sgt. Pepper "played a marching tune", etc. etc. Dylan missed the whole hippie-dip Summer of Love stuff & holed up in Woodstock (refusing to play the "Woodstock" festival in Bethel in '69). And when he came back from seclusion, he was Mr. Nashville.

Again, just my but the day the music died was when "and roll" got dropped from the name of the genre. Rock got "serious" & lost its good-time bebop pretensions. Personally, I think this happened on May 17, 1966, in Manchester UK.

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Emma

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Been out of the loop for the past day or so. Keith is actually one of my former students who I sent the website that you put on the Board. Always fun to tinker with the braincells.


and, to the rest of you, no, I am not Don McLean.



__________________
Friendly handshake, smiley face

Date:
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quote:

Originally posted by: Emma

"Been out of the loop for the past day or so. Keith is actually one of my former students who I sent the website that you put on the Board. Always fun to tinker with the braincells. and, to the rest of you, no, I am not Don McLean."


I believe the poster who said that, Emma, was just kidding you. That suggestion was followed by a smiley face  That's always the tipoff that whatever was said was said in jest.


I'm reasonably sure that person who wrote American Pie wouldn't know USM from Adam.


 



__________________
Emma

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GEE. do ya think????

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