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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
Post Info TOPIC: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
Stranded

Date:
What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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If the IHL takes no action at its Thursday meeting, or engages in only gentle hand-slapping, what then? What else is there to do? I am at a loss for an answer.

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qwerty

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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What if IHL does nothing? I hold that as the likely outcome. I belive a second year of probation is all but assured for our fine institution.

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Jameela Lares

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What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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quote:
Originally posted by: Stranded
"If the IHL takes no action at its Thursday meeting, or engages in only gentle hand-slapping, what then? What else is there to do?"

We keep our heads.


The race is not always to the swiftest, but to those who keep on running.


Jameela



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Green Hornet

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Stranded
"If the IHL takes no action at its Thursday meeting, or engages in only gentle hand-slapping, what then? What else is there to do? I am at a loss for an answer."

We endure, we persevere, life will go on………but we will show no quarter, nor give up the good fight….



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Waiting and Watching

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Stranded
"If the IHL takes no action at its Thursday meeting, or engages in only gentle hand-slapping, what then? What else is there to do? I am at a loss for an answer."
Start looking for a faculty position elsewhere.

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Left (formerly Leaving Soon)

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quote:
Originally posted by: Stranded
"If the IHL takes no action at its Thursday meeting, or engages in only gentle hand-slapping, what then? What else is there to do? I am at a loss for an answer."

Three options come to mind:

1) Be heroic. Keep up the valiant fight to save a rapidly and most assuredly sinking USM,
and watch your career go down with USM.

2) Surrender. Do nothing, and watch your career go down with USM.

3) Retreat. Leave USM, the sooner the better.

Many of us chose option 3. I'm glad I did, even though I can't help feeling some "survivor guilt".
(It's part of what keeps me coming back to this board when I ought to just put it behind me and "move forward." )


If the IHL does nothing this Thursday, you can be pretty da*n sure they never will.


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Long, long ago

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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Many of us chose option 3. I'm glad I did, even though I can't help feeling some "survivor guilt".
(It's part of what keeps me coming back to this board when I ought to just put it behind me and "move forward." )


If the IHL does nothing this Thursday, you can be pretty da*n sure they never will.

My sentiments exactly, left.


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Jameela Lares

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Long, long ago
"Many of us chose option 3. I'm glad I did, even though I can't help feeling some "survivor guilt". (It's part of what keeps me coming back to this board when I ought to just put it behind me and "move forward." ) If the IHL does nothing this Thursday, you can be pretty da*n sure they never will. My sentiments exactly, left. "

Well, I've heard that a week is a long time in politics.  Since we seem to be dealing with politics rather than academics, perhaps that can give us hope.


Jameela



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stephen judd

Date:
RE: RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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quote:
Originally posted by: Left (formerly Leaving Soon)
" Three options come to mind: 1) Be heroic. Keep up the valiant fight to save a rapidly and most assuredly sinking USM, and watch your career go down with USM. 2) Surrender. Do nothing, and watch your career go down with USM. 3) Retreat. Leave USM, the sooner the better. Many of us chose option 3. I'm glad I did, even though I can't help feeling some "survivor guilt". (It's part of what keeps me coming back to this board when I ought to just put it behind me and "move forward." ) If the IHL does nothing this Thursday, you can be pretty da*n sure they never will. "

I'm glad for those of you who have left USM to have escaped. But PLEASE -- some of us might choose to stay for very good reasons. It does not follow that means career suicide. This is a day to day thing. My program has a relatively young faculty with lots of energy and they are very focused on building a program. My job is to make that possible and to protect them where necessary and give them the space to continue to make progress even under difficult conditions. Despite all the crap, we have not stopped looking forward but it sure doesn't make it easier when friends who do not know our particular situation making sweeping statements. If Shelby gets a big renewel we will all reevaluate but until that time I'd just as soon not have people who have already left tell me and my faculty it is hopeless -- you aren't here, and you don't know.


I'm not sure at what point it is appropriate to talk of surrender (as in everyone taking flight). But we are not there yet.


 


 


 


 



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Ellen Weinauer

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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Hear, hear, Stephen. When I read posts like this--doubtless well-intended--it just makes my feelings about our situation worse. As Stephen pointed out, many of us are here, and some for the duration, for very good reasons; and while we all have doomsday moments--not to mention moments of giddy hope--we have to believe that we'll survive this and be able to claim our university back. Imagining a future is pretty tough when we predicate even HAVING a future on what happens this coming Thursday. Jameela's words are wise--if nothing DOES happen, we keep our heads and remember that this is an endurance race. Like everyone else, I'm sick of running around this particular demoralizing track. But I'll keep on nonetheless.

No Quarter.

Ellen Weinauer

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Patti

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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If the IHL board does nothing, except say bad boy to Thames, then the conspiracy theory that has been bantered around the message board will have held some truth to it.


I have been watching the threads here with interest, and I'm an outsider who isn't involved in academia per se.  Know that my thoughts and prayers are with all of you who are in this fight to the end,  and may the end be soon.



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Me

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I guess if there are no changes at the top (dome) there will be no changes in the middle (dean/provost level). I hope there will only voluntary changes at the bottom (me).  



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Dr. Strangelove's Glove

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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Suppose for a moment that the IHL announces that it will begin a search immediately for a new president, which is the best we can hope for at this point. A new president would not take office unitl July 2006, at which time Thames would have had another 17 months to kick his "scorched earth" politics into full throttle mode. More library cuts, more money to ED, more money to the Phoenix model, more damage to SACS accreditation and disciplinary-level accreditations. Even if the new president were a superman or superwoman, you're talking a minimum of 3 years to correct the wrongs perpetrated under Thames. Follow that up with ten years of rebuilding to get USM where it should be in 5 years...and we're still 5 years behind. Recruitment will not come back overnight. Community bonds will not be healed overnight. Reputation will not be restored overnight. This catastrophe will linger over USM for the next 20 years. Over those 20 years, faculty will have to constantly work to help improve relations, reputation, and recruitment. In 20 years, I will have been retired for several years. What a way to spend your career...picking up after someone else's mess.

What if the IHL does nothing? Then, we can expect 5+ more years of Thames, which WILL ruin USM for decades. There will be no point in continuing the fight if this happens. Sorry S. Judd, but there will be no saving your faculty, students, programs, or department(s)...nor will there be any saving of anything except the few chosen programs. Your funding will wither, as will that of the other colleges that are on the wrong side of Thames. ED, Polymer Science, and Education will thrive while all else becomes a shell. USM will become more and more a commuter campus as programs are cut and others moved to online status. The "campus" will become extremely commercial, probably even leasing lots for private apartments, stores, etc. No new faculty will want to come here, those who can leave will leave, and those who cannot leave will become bitter, isolated, disgruntled, and the epitome of the picture that Thames paints of us now.

Nobody wants to hear this. Nobody wants to be told that we are walking on the edge of a knife...one slip and we're done. One miscalculation and we're through. We've not effectively gotten our message to the public, most of whom are unable to comprehend academic life (see "inmates" or other comments comparing us to workers who don't like the boss). All our hopes lie with Crofts, the one person who may have the intelligence, guts, and just plain wherewithal to nudge the IHL in the right direction. Maybe he'll be able to sell them on a proper course of action.

In the best case scenario, anyone with fifteen years or less remaining until retirement will spend his or her life struggling to help USM regain some semblance of respectability. In the worst case scenario, we all get tied to the whipping post for the remainder of our days.

The tortoise and the hare had meaning when all this first started, but we're not just going slow and steady, because we have a 1,000 pound gorilla sitting on our shell. His name is Mississippi Politics.

I hope for the best. I prepare for the worst. I am afraid I'll be disappointed on Thursday night.

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stephen judd

Date:
RE: RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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quote:
Originally posted by: Patti
"If the IHL board does nothing, except say bad boy to Thames, then the conspiracy theory that has been bantered around the message board will have held some truth to it. I have been watching the threads here with interest, and I'm an outsider who isn't involved in academia per se.  Know that my thoughts and prayers are with all of you who are in this fight to the end,  and may the end be soon."

Ellen -- I'm with you. We need to keep the troops rallied.


And Patti -- thank you so much. If the conspiracy theory actually is true . . . then it is a GOOD reason to really get militant and break the back of this board. There are days when I have actually contemplated that they may need to be our real target  . . . I think it possible that a failure to act this time might actually put me over that particular edge . . . 


I can't imagine anything on the scale of the disaster facing this university happening anywhere else without having a profound effect on the agency that must manage a university system. If the Board doesn't act -- I am inclined to believe they are either the most incompentent board EVER and need to go OR it is all true that there is a covert design for USM that we are not a party to . . . and in this case the only possibility we have left is (as LFLS point out) to leave or to confront the Board head on and forget about Shelby, who is clearly a mannikin.


The intransigence of the Board is tending to make me both more bellicose and more inclined to toss a few bombs (metaphorically speaking) onto the ninth floor. We are very close to finding ourselves in a position in which the Board actually has completely dismissed a huge body of evidence that this administration is incompetent, petty, vindictive, and dangerously careless about the welfare of the university as a whole; has dismissed a faculty in which hundreds (thousands of years of accrued experience in the academy seem to count for nothing against the opinions of a body of amateurs who happen, for twelve years, to hold in their hands the fate of a university system. It is a SICK system that provides for input from university Presidents, CFOs, Provosts, administrators, etc. -- but NO provision for direct communication with thousands of faculty across the system.


I'll say it again -- we need ONE seat at the table, in the room where decisions are made and discussed. It doesn't need to be a voting seat -- but it needs to be a seat that serves, by being present, to keep the Presdient's honest in how they portray themselves, their plans, and their relationships with their faculties to the board. Right now, the Presdients can lie -- and the faculty can do nothing to counteract the lies.


I hope someone on the Board reads this. I hope Roy Klumb and I wind up in the same dark ally down in Gulfport one night.


I realize the above isn't a particuarly academic reaction -- but sometimes even cademics need to take action. I don't want to equate this administration with the Nazis, for instance . . . but I think you get my point. Being reasonable works when your opponent respects the rules of reason. If your opponent is ruthless rather than reasonable, the reason has to be pressed into the service of action designed to defeat the opponent. This isn't, as noted by others, simply a disagreement about tactics of university management. This is a struggle for who will define the university for years to come.


 


 


 



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Invictus

Date:
RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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quote:
Originally posted by: Stranded
"If the IHL takes no action at its Thursday meeting, or engages in only gentle hand-slapping, what then? What else is there to do? I am at a loss for an answer."


Those who work at USM will have to answer that question for themselves. As for me, I will say a prayer of thanks that my daughter has decided to attend Ole Miss. Although I will continue to support my friends & associates who work at USM, my money will go north.

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Robert Campbell

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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There isn't going to be graceful degradation if the Board does nothing--soon there is going to be collapse.  And if the Board gives Thames another term, USM will lose its accreditation.


What Thames wants--what he was getting until Crofts intervened--directly threatens USM with SACS.  If Thames is given the green light, what will prevent him from continuing to take actions that put USM's accreditation in jeopardy?  Won't building up Economic Development at the expense of other programs have precisely that effect?


If it gets deaccredited, USM won't go downhill in the manner predicted.  It will close its doors, or be taken over by another institution.


Let's assume that the conspiracy theory is true--if so, the problem for the Board is that Thames is wrecking USM too fast and too loudly.


Maybe the Board is so hopeless--so utterly irrational-- that it won't stop Thames even though he is sorely disappointing  the anti-USM trustees.  But in that case, it's not just USM that will be circling the bowl.  No one at the other 7 institutions under the Board's control will have any reason for optimism either.


Robert Campbell


 



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Invictus

Date:
RE: RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's
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quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"If it gets deaccredited, USM won't go downhill in the manner predicted.  It will close its doors, or be taken over by another institution.
"
(Emphasis added)


Bingo.

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Old diploma with black & yellow mold

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Bingo."

Invictus,


If we're taken over by another institution you will probably be given the opportunity to swap your USM diploma for one issued by the takeover school. That's the way it usually is. So keep your fingers crossed that the name of the school of choice will appear on your new diploma (heh heh).



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Offer Letter in Hand

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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I am having a real dilemma. I have the opportunity to go to another institution, one that has no accreditation problems but that is a step down from the pre-Thames USM I joined (probably a lateral move right now).

The problem is, I would only ever take that job to get out of USM (i.e., not to go there as much as to get out of here), and that's not something I would have ever done before this semester.

I will probably not take it, but I may join Stephen in hunting particular board members in alleys if my decision not to leave turns out to be one I regret. Or maybe both Stephen and I (and others) will disavow violence and practice primal scream on Klumb's front yard at 3 a.m., or whatever....

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Boudreaux

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's
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quote:
Originally posted by: Old diploma with black & yellow mold
" Invictus, If we're taken over by another institution you will probably be given the opportunity to swap your USM diploma for one issued by the takeover school. That's the way it usually is. So keep your fingers crossed that the name of the school of choice will appear on your new diploma (heh heh)."
If Ole Miss is the takeover school, Invictus can look at his newly issued Ole Miss diploma and tell his Ole Miss daugter "Well, when I was a student at Ole Miss . . ."

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Optimism lost

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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Unfortunately, the IHL will do nothing and this nonsense will continue. There is no way they will admit to making a mistake and dumping Thames would in fact be evidence of that. The problem is that he will continue to destroy the university and they will continue to scold him when he gets caught by the media. All faculty going up for tenure will be denied for "budget purposes" and everyone will be canned on their 3rd year review for the same reason. Once accreditation is gone these folks will be replaced with people just off the streets. By the end of Thames' second term there will be no young tenure track faculty left and the only faculty will be those shackled by the retirement system.

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liberal commie whiner #1917

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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" If the IHL takes no action at its Thursday meeting, or engages in only gentle hand-slapping, what then? What else is there to do? I am at a loss for an answer."

Job actions. Mass sick days. Disobedience. Sabotage. War. If we're gonna get a second year of probation regardless of who's at the helm--which seems almost certain-- anything else would be obscene.

Shut the mutha down. Force the board to take action. No mid-term grades. No final grades. No cooperation. No quarter!

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Whom to blame

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The ultimate problem is that so many good people stay uninvolved. It's the same thing that happened during the desegregation battle. "Good" people simply could not figure how to involve themselves in the plight of others whom they claimed to love and respect. This must be one of the stickiest areas of human nature.

In any case, there are numerous people in the Hattiesburg Community--people like Randy Pope and Mike Ratliff and Ben Carmchel and Dwight Dyess and Sandy Grey and C. J. Culpepper and Red Bailey and Carrol Ingram and Bobby Chain and (even) Bob Mixon--who have known and claimed to have loved/respected faculty members that Shelby has crucified. These good people, for the sake of the state of Mississippi, and of USM, and of the individuals they have known/loved, have got to assert themselves and tell the IHL board that for the sake of the state of Mississippi and of simple decency, and of the major university in the lower half of the state, this S*** has got to stop. If these guys keep their heads buried in the sand, then woe is Mississippi and they will go down in history as people too craven to be players. God help them.!!!!


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liberal commie whiner #1917

Date:
Permalink Closed

whom to blame:

As you might remember from your Civil Rights experience, direct, dramatic action rapidly sorts the friends of justice from the collaboraters. The more direct and dramatic the action the better. If the board does nothing, the folk on this board should occupy the administration building. Remove the "president" from his office and require that police arrest us and carry us bodily from the building; about 500 arrestees would be enough. And don't make it easy either. Bring well- charged cellphones, plenty of provisions, and large shackle kryptonite-type bicycle locks and high-carbon chains to close the doors from the inside. Do it at noon when the clerical staff is at lunch. Sit in. Stay put. Don't damage anything but don't leave either. Cellphone everybody in the freaking country. If the boards balks, its time to take the gloves off.

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Counting the days

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Offer Letter in Hand
"I am having a real dilemma. I have the opportunity to go to another institution, one that has no accreditation problems but that is a step down from the pre-Thames USM I joined (probably a lateral move right now). The problem is, I would only ever take that job to get out of USM (i.e., not to go there as much as to get out of here), and that's not something I would have ever done before this semester. I will probably not take it, but I may join Stephen in hunting particular board members in alleys if my decision not to leave turns out to be one I regret. Or maybe both Stephen and I (and others) will disavow violence and practice primal scream on Klumb's front yard at 3 a.m., or whatever...."

Offer - I would wait at least until after Thursday, or better yet till the end of the month.  I tend to agree with many on this topic that if the Board says "Bad Boy!", there is NOTHING left that SFT can do that could possibly remove him (or his cohorts).  At that point, take your offer, and enjoy your new environs.


Ask for an extension, and wait a bit.  If the board gives us some idea that SFT is going (either immediately, is neutered till his term ends), you might consider staying.


Count 



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Amy Young

Date:
Permalink Closed

If the Board meeting on Thursday results in little or nothing:

1. AAUP is still agressively seeking sanctions
2. We can do what we threatened, another "no confidence" vote
3. We can gear up (with good data that many of us have - like Academic Council) and attend the March board meeting.

There are probably some other things that could be done as well, people better informed than me can add to this list.

I do not believe that we are completely powerless.

If THAT results in nothing, then I personally will probably have to resign from lots of committees and gear up to get on the job market, though I don't want to leave Mississippi. I am not a native, but I elected to come here.

Amy Young

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Angeline

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Counting the days
" Offer - I would wait at least until after Thursday, or better yet till the end of the month.  I tend to agree with many on this topic that if the Board says "Bad Boy!", there is NOTHING left that SFT can do that could possibly remove him (or his cohorts).  At that point, take your offer, and enjoy your new environs. Ask for an extension, and wait a bit.  If the board gives us some idea that SFT is going (either immediately, is neutered till his term ends), you might consider staying. Count  "
The problem with this argument, though I appreciate the sentiment to keep us faculty here, is that now that many of us have gone on the job market and have seen the other side it will be very hard to convince us to stay even if Shelby is canned this week.  Here's the bottom line: the pay is better almost everywhere else (including community colleges), benefits are better or at least no worse, appreciation for academics and professional development is much better nearly everywhere else, research is encouraged and promoted, the library will buy what we need to teach and do research, teaching loads are more reasonable, and so on.  It is no longer useful to think of moving from USM to a similarly-funded and sized instirution a lateral move since USM has fallen so low: can we say "4th tier" and "accreditation probation"?  It doesn't get much worse than the way USM is now and it will take many years if not decades to rebuild the momentum that USM once had.  So, by all means, if you have a job offer take it.  It is your career that you must think of first.

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Invictus

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Th
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quote:
Originally posted by: Old diploma with black & yellow mold
"If we're taken over by another institution you will probably be given the opportunity to swap your USM diploma for one issued by the takeover school. That's the way it usually is. So keep your fingers crossed that the name of the school of choice will appear on your new diploma (heh heh)."


Any chance USM will be taken over by MIT?

(As a footnote, my diplomas actually were attacked by black & yellow mold. Irreparable damage, according to the frame show. I am told the problem was with the polymeric cement that an ill-trained framer once used...

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USM Alum

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RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's meeting
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Invictus, you make me laugh.


Amy Young, you should probably start making plans to attend the March meeting.  Also, surely someone from the faculty can get alumni addresses, and send Alumni (select Alumni if the cost is prohibitve ) a letter stating your concerns, but if you choose to do this, stay away from phrases such as "shared governance" and focus on academic reputation, faculty attrition and work environment.  Recruiting is an issue, but be careful the numbers I have seen done by the Admin.  don't jive with the thoughts on this board.  Has anyone checked on the cost of a full page add in the Clarion Ledger?



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Bright Lights of the City

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RE: RE: RE: RE: What if the IHL does nothing at Thursday's mee
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quote:

Originally posted by: Angeline
"many of us have gone on the job market and have seen the other side it will be very hard to convince us to stay even if Shelby is canned this week."


Angeline makes a good point here. She has identified yet another negative fallout for USM: Faculty members are looking around, at least tentatively, at other opportunities. It's like the words of that old World War II song: "How are you gonna keep em' down on the farm once they see Paris?" Quite a few USM faculty members are viewing other schools. It's gonna be hard to keep 'em in the barnyard of Nitchamberg with all of its the cow droppings.  



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