Crofts Reviews USM Dispute - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 11, 2005

RE: Crofts Reviews USM Dispute

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"ram, I took Klumb's tangled statement to mean that he's really annoyed that anyone is objecting to Thames' pet schemes on the grounds that they will threaten accreditation with SACS, and he wishes they would shut up--but he's afraid they're right. Robert Campbell"

Robert,

What's the latest posting on "Liberty and Power"??????

Date: Feb 11, 2005

RC, once again --- on TARGET

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Green Hornet,

There are actually two postings on L and P today. I was away from my computer for several hours after finishing the first one--hence the delay.

See the new thread on these.

Roberr Campbell

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Gone Never Returning
"Lisa Mader has been trying to find a job in Jackson since December. She is still on the payroll but mainly in Jackson seeking employment. She typically leaves before all falls apart. Hattiesburg to Jackson, Jackson to Hattiesburg, and now Hattiesburg back to Jackson. "

Rats always leave a sinking ship...

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"Y'all 'scuse me for getting back to the origins of this thread, but the above quotation from Roy Klumb has got me baffled and bumfuzzled. Is he saying something that I am just to stupid to understand, or is he just one of the dumbest creatures alive walking on two legs?"

That "red herring" just turned into a "red face" for Roy today with Croft's weighing in that the new EXMBA Program if implemented in the fall would indeed be likely to pose a problem for SACs.

Croft has pretty much delivered Roy a public reminder to shut up.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"Croft has pretty much delivered Roy a public reminder to shut up. "

Please Roy: DON'T DO IT!!!! Please, please, p-l-e-a-s-e keep making a wurl-class fool of yourself!!!!!!!!!! It helps our cause, and it is also highly entertaining.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" That "red herring" just turned into a "red face" for Roy today with Croft's weighing in that the new EXMBA Program if implemented in the fall would indeed be likely to pose a problem for SACs. Croft has pretty much delivered Roy a public reminder to shut up. "

Hate to be so picky but the semantics are important about this. There is NO Executive MBA being planned by the CoB. The executive MBA is the Kenbot/Shelby/Jay fantasy that caused all the library renovation commotion. It is a separate issue (and program) from the hybrid delivery model MBA that is currently being discussed in the CoB and which would be imprudent to launch while on SACS probation.

Other than that, great post.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Stickler
"
Hate to be so picky but the semantics are important about this. There is NO Executive MBA being planned by the CoB. The executive MBA is the Kenbot/Shelby/Jay fantasy that caused all the library renovation commotion. It is a separate issue (and program) from the hybrid delivery model MBA that is currently being discussed in the CoB and which would be imprudent to launch while on SACS probation.
Other than that, great post."

Good point, Stickler. We need to remember this and keep this distinction alive, esp. in the media.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Stickler
" Hate to be so picky but the semantics are important about this. There is NO Executive MBA being planned by the CoB. The executive MBA is the Kenbot/Shelby/Jay fantasy that caused all the library renovation commotion. It is a separate issue (and program) from the hybrid delivery model MBA that is currently being discussed in the CoB and which would be imprudent to launch while on SACS probation. Other than that, great post."

Of course -- you are quite right. I was referring to the "hybrid MBA" that Doty and the CoB people have been working on. The EXMBA, as you rightly note -- isn't a creature of the CoB. I'm still having trouble keeping all of this straight without a program so thanks . ..

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Stickler
" Hate to be so picky but the semantics are important about this. There is NO Executive MBA being planned by the CoB. The executive MBA is the Kenbot/Shelby/Jay fantasy that caused all the library renovation commotion. It is a separate issue (and program) from the hybrid delivery model MBA that is currently being discussed in the CoB and which would be imprudent to launch while on SACS probation. Other than that, great post."

But it is this new "hybrid" MBA that was slated for the third floor of the Gulf Coast Library, right? At least the hoopla in the press this week suggested that. That is why I thought they were the same in SFT/Malone/Grimes's eyes. Are there really TWO new MBA programs being promoted by the Administration or is this purely a semantic issue with Doty calling it "hybrid" and the Administration calling it "Executive"? Please clarify.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
"But it is this new "hybrid" MBA that was slated for the third floor of the Gulf Coast Library, right? At least the hoopla in the press this week suggested that. That is why I thought they were the same in SFT/Malone/Grimes's eyes. Are there really TWO new MBA programs being promoted by the Administration or is this purely a semantic issue with Doty calling it "hybrid" and the Administration calling it "Executive"? Please clarify."

No. The "hybrid" MBA is one that has been (according to the Doty/Grimes exchnage of memos) under development in the CoB. The desire of the CoB, as I understand it, has been to try to bring some order to the several MBA's it currently administers in different sites. The hybrid gives them the opportunity to do this and yet still retain a traditional MBA as well.

The ExMBA was developed for the Gulf Coast by the Malone/Grimes contigent and by testimony of Doty and other membersof the CoB, has nothing to do with the CoB. It was intended to be housed in the third floor of the library.

I should not be trying to explain this probably as the CoB people undoubtedly know this far better than I.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

The CoB people are discussing a hybrid format MBA. The CoB people NEVER requested library space or had any plans for renovating the library.

Thames/Malone/Grimes are (were?) discussing an Executive MBA program. The Nov 4 document for the library renovation plan was called "Gulf Park Library 3rd Floor Modifications for the Executive MBA Education & Conference Center." No one from the College of Business is listed either on the Planning Committee or on the administrative page of that document.

Malone also has something called an EXECUTIVE Masters program in economic development, which apparently is in CoST. This may be the program that they want the library renovation for although that certainly doesn't explain why they called it an Executive MBA.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

Stickler,

I don't think there's any real confusion here.

The "hybrid" MBA was simply the way of implementing Thames and Malone's plans that involved the College of Business.

They were going to proceed with their MBA plans (Executive MBA, or whatever you want to call them, centered on Gulf Park) with or without the compliance or cooperation of the College of Business.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 12, 2005

I should add that there might be genuine interest in the College of Business in some kind of "hybrid" MBA program, run according to the College's usual standards.

But that isn't the kind of program that Grimes was pushing Doty to start.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"I should add that there might be genuine interest in the College of Business in some kind of "hybrid" MBA program, run according to the College's usual standards. But that isn't the kind of program that Grimes was pushing Doty to start. Robert Campbell "

No, you are right Robert. But the term "hyrid" has been the one used by Doty and some of the CoB facukty to distinguish their program in development.

I am still confused how the MBA program started by Malone in Jackson County could have gotten off the ground without going through any of the usuall channels -- beginning at the department and then through Grad Council.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" I am still confused how the MBA program started by Malone in Jackson County could have gotten off the ground without going through any of the usual channels -- beginning at the department and then through Grad Council. "

Stephen,

Oh no, that's clear.

Malone just did whatever he felt like doing, with SFT's blessing. Why make a concession to "external forces," by going through channels or following the required procedure?

I believe questions about Malone's faculty status have the same answer. He just declared himself an Assistant Professor, and later declared himself promoted to Full Professor... without bothering with any paperwork or any appprovals--except SFT's.

The memos from the Academic Council and the Graduate Council that were posted here two or three days ago show that the Economic Development program was split and moved into two different colleges without any of these approvals being obtained either--except Thames' (and, in that particular case, the Board's).

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 12, 2005

OK--I remain confused. So the "hybrid" MBA is one that the CoB faculty are discussing and that the provost is pushing (against Doty's recommendations) for the coming fall (or was until all of this broke)? If this is the program under dispute right now, what IS the status of the E-MBA program--which, like the hybrid MBA, as Stephen Judd points out, also does not yet exist? Or has this one slipped under the radar now that the other has come under fire? And this means that we'd have TWO MBA programs, one in the CoB the other in (gulp) COAL (??? am I right about this), both of which make use of on-line delivery in some form?

I try to keep all of this straight, but at times I feel I get lost in the forest of disciplinary terminology the distinctiveness of which I may not understand. If anyone could address this issue, I'd be grateful.

Furthermore, if anyone wants to try (family tree style, maybe?) to offer a primer on questionable programs (where they originated, to whom they now "belong"), programs and "units" whose names and identities have been altered, and the people (Butler, Malone, etc.) in authority over them, I'd ALSO be grateful.

Ellen Weinauer

p.s. though it goes w/o saying: NO QUARTER.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

ellen--like you i can't keep track of the programs without a "program." my understanding is this--CoB has been considering a hybrid MBA--hybrid meaning a mixture of online and traditional courses. they have been working on this for a while.

the executive MBA program was designed for the coast. this is what malone has been pushing for the coast (even though there has been an MBA program on the coast since at least since 2000). "executive" programs whether in business or community health or whatever have been increasingly popular. they are designed to appeal to executives who desire a masters degree.

Date: Feb 12, 2005

To add on to SCM's (correct) interpretation - EMBA programs are growing in popularity in Business Schools. They are basically the "white glove" MBA for executives. The prices for these programs range from 25K to 80K, and are sort of like "all inclusive" programs. They include tuition, books, fees, executive catering, international trip (or two), laptop, and other perks.

First rate EMBAs have enormous resources dedicated to them by the University/school. They have stellar faculty who are good with "bidness types", executive style support and facilities that are beautiful. I have a friend at an SEC school that teaches some in their EMBA, and their program resources are unbelievable.

The problem for us is - Who in their right mind would spend $25k-40K to get an EMBA from Southern Miss, when they can spend (or have their company spend) an extra 10K to get something from Tulane, or Georgia, or Texas? Even if they did push through "re-furbishing" the Gulf Park Library, we do not have anything close to the resources that are necessary to attract executives. All of the money generated would not stay in the program, but will be considered as a cash-cow for administration. The program would be strip mined.

So - EMBA is quite different from the hybrid MBA Doty is pushing. Hybrid is probably a good idea, but to think we can support an EMBA at this time is laughable.

Count

Date: Feb 12, 2005

since this seems to be the most recent thread dealing with the MBA issue can someone answer the following? i heard that at the PUC Thames indicated that he is concerned (disappointetd) that many coast businesspeople have their MBAs from Carey or the University of Phoenix, and this is part of what is driving this push for an EMBA. is this true?

Date: Feb 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
" Stephen, Oh no, that's clear. Malone just did whatever he felt like doing, with SFT's blessing. Why make a concession to "external forces," by going through channels or following the required procedure? I believe questions about Malone's faculty status have the same answer. He just declared himself an Assistant Professor, and later declared himself promoted to Full Professor... without bothering with any paperwork or any appprovals--except SFT's. The memos from the Academic Council and the Graduate Council that were posted here two or three days ago show that the Economic Development program was split and moved into two different colleges without any of these approvals being obtained either--except Thames' (and, in that particular case, the Board's). Robert Campbell"

Yes -- these have come up in academic council, grad council and senate. I feel like Regan's spinning head in "The Exorcist" -- and there are days when I think all that spinning will produce the same result . . .

These guys just play fast and loose with process and with truth --