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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
Post Info TOPIC: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
Beatle

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Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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Just heard that there is another (earlier) letter from Grimes to Doty circulating in the COB.  Can someone confirm?

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gene

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this is correct. 

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Inquiring Minds

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DETAILS? PLEASE!



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Invictus

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in
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Could this letter have been "leaked" by Grimes himself during his damage control visits in CoB earlier this week? Is it dramatically different in tone or content? Does it appear to impugn Doty?

As IM said, "Details, please!"

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nomincer

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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I saw it.  It's another pretty unflattering view of Grimes if you ask me.  It deals with another hiring situation in the CoB.  Those folks in the dome are determined to kill that place. 

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details?

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can someone provide more details?

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Patience Is A Virtue

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in
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NM

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talan

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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Anybody else got any idea about this one?

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Outside Observer

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Where are the details???  I'm not a patient person...you can't keep me waiting like this!

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Deep Throat

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RE: RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating
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We're working on releasing the details...be patient, Grasshopper!

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Outside Observer

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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Yes, Master

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talan

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any news yet?

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Outside Observer

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Be patient, or they'll call you Grasshopper!

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Deep Throat

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RE: RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating
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quote:
Originally posted by: Outside Observer
"Be patient, or they'll call you Grasshopper!"


We are all Grasshoppers, as we are all Masters. Patience is key...

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Outside Observer

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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...and moderation in all things.

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Deep Throat

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in
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Exactly! See what happens when you are patient...this came from someone outside the CoB who scanned it and sent it to me. It was given to them by someone from within CoB (so it's legit...others who have seen the original, please vouch for this):

MEMORANDUM

To: Dean Harold Doty
College of Business

From: Dr. Jay Grimes
Provost

Date: February 7, 2005

Re: Permission to Interview for Gulf Coast Position

I am relunctantly approving the "Permission to Interview" form for a new faculty member within the Department of Economics, Finance, and International Business. In our earlier discussion on 21 January 2005, and in my letter of 3 February 2005, I instructed you to be "absolutely certain that all new hires have relevant private sector experience." These applicants do not have such experience. However, I realize that the advertisement did not specify that private sector experience was necessary or even preferred and that such experience cannot be a condition of employment in this search. Accordingly, since we need to hire a person to fill the vacancy and teach the courses, I am allowing you to proceed with the interview process.

cc: Mrs. Becky Woodrick, Director, Office of Affirmative Action

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LVN

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Would someone kindly explain what constitutes "relevant private sector experience"??

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Invictus

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RE: RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating
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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Would someone kindly explain what constitutes "relevant private sector experience"?? "


Amway.

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Deep Throat

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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Would someone kindly explain what constitutes "relevant private sector experience"?? "


Or telemarketing.

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Biz Prof

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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It's interesting that the dates of alot of back-and-forth between Grimes and Doty are listed here by Grimes.  Assuming this is an economics position, which I believe I have heard before, and knowing my colleagues down the hall in economics, what Grimes did was delay the process long enough to effectively eliminate chances of hiring the best candidate (or maybe even any candidate).  Economists go to their meeting in very early January each year, and by middle to late January have invited their top candidates for visits.  The visits usually occur in early Feb and throughout the rest of that month, and hires are made in March.


Grimes has essentially used a pocket veto here.  I bet the economists aren't too happy about this one.  I'll ask around tomorrow.



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Reluctant Recluse

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in
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grimes says he is reluctantly going to let doty fill the position. i take this to mean that since he can't break the law and require qualifications that weren't advertised, he'll reluctantly follow the law.

LVN, i don't know what "relevant industry experience" is, but i'm pretty sure that most business phds with relevant industry experience are making more money than usm can ever hope to pay, so that the cob will be out of the running for any decent candidates and will end up having to hire sheisters who are looking for a boondoggle.

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DHD's Greatest Hits

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Since when did industry experience become a prerequisite for academic employment? I guess Einstein's work would have been worthless without those valuable years as a patent clerk. Relevant industry experience, indeed.

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twice differentiable

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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Actually, the best economists in the world are in the public sector.  If you took a photo of the top 100 economists in the public sector and a photo of the top 100 economists in the private sector and laid them side-by-side, it would rather be like looking at a photo of the Southern California football team next to one of North Forest High School.


If this is an economics position, this private sector thing is simply a bust.



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brandon

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Actually, given the name of the department, private sector experience is not essential at all for at least two parts (finance and economics) of the department.

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stephen judd

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RE: RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in
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quote:
Originally posted by: DHD's Greatest Hits
"Since when did industry experience become a prerequisite for academic employment? I guess Einstein's work would have been worthless without those valuable years as a patent clerk. Relevant industry experience, indeed."

"Economic Development" was not acceptable to the faculty as a fourth criterion for evaluation so it was folded back into the other three categories.


This is a backhanded way of forcing the CoB and its faculty to apply themselves to the business of economic development as a fourth criterion without actually having it explicitly appear.


Beware -- I suspect we won't see the last of this among the colleges. I will not be suprised to see Science and Tech getting the same treatment soon . . . .


 



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Second-Best Solution

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While private sector experience allows a different perspective, it also leads to a "one-way" mindset that causes ideas to be presented from one point of view rather than in a traditional "let's look at all sides" approach.

Using Grimes' model, we'd rather hire a crappy teacher with industry experience than a very good teacher who is a career academic. That's nuts!

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old timer

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quote:
Originally posted by: Reluctant Recluse
"grimes says he is reluctantly going to let doty fill the position. i take this to mean that since he can't break the law and require qualifications that weren't advertised, he'll reluctantly follow the law. LVN, i don't know what "relevant industry experience" is, but i'm pretty sure that most business phds with relevant industry experience are making more money than usm can ever hope to pay, so that the cob will be out of the running for any decent candidates and will end up having to hire sheisters who are looking for a boondoggle."

RR, you are correct.  My own sense is that Becky Woodrick forced Grimes' hand on this one.  I hope the COB folks pepper him with questions on this one when he "visits" with them some more.


Any more on that?  I heard he was going to address the whole college in assembly.  I might have to "slip in" to the auditorium for that one.



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Swedish Interloper

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RE: RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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quote:
Originally posted by: twice differentiable
"Actually, the best economists in the world are in the public sector.  If you took a photo of the top 100 economists in the public sector and a photo of the top 100 economists in the private sector and laid them side-by-side, it would rather be like looking at a photo of the Southern California football team next to one of North Forest High School. If this is an economics position, this private sector thing is simply a bust."
Great post. Really great post. Look at the list Nobel Laureates in Economics. Public trumps Private.

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LVN

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in
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So, a person with this experience and the proper academic credentials would come to USM because . . . ?

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In the know

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RE: Oh $**t! Another Grimes letter circulating in COB!
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I have it on good authority that Grimes and the gang completely "shut down" a finance hire earlieer this year on the "private sector" thing.  One of their candidates even had years as a higher up with AT&T or something.


Hopefully Kim Chaze has been introduced.



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