comments on grimes letter - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 9, 2005

comments on grimes letter

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: all in same boat
" And finally, I am glad to see that he is planning to dismantle the coast library in favor of your college. "

Please note this important distinction because it was not clear in Kevin's article, the public will never get it and the administration is applying their spin machine to increase the fuzziness around it. The "Executive MBA" referenced in the Gulf Park Library memorandum was NOT INITIATED, SUPPORTED, or BEING PLANNED by the College of Business. It's existence (including the plan for its existence) was later denied in writing by Grimes and Malone although referenced specifically by Thames at the last PUC meeting. The "hybrid MBA" program being initiated, developed, and debated in the College of Business is NOT the same program. The Economic Development programs not located in the College of Business but which have business content will be scrutinized very carefully by both SACS and AACSB, especially in the areas of faculty credentials.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Can anyone explain how a Master of BUSINESS Administration degree could be logically offered outside the College of BUSINESS?

I can handle Economic Development being put in CoST simply because Economic Development is an utterly contrived discipline anyway & might as well be housed in the P.E. Department. (I figure the logic went, "Well, it can't go in business, but it's largely political SCIENCE, so let's put it in the College of SCIENCE...")

Is this just another way to placate the folks on the Coast by providing them with another substandard imitation of the real thing?

Date: Feb 9, 2005

But surely Thames and Malone want the "hybrid MBA" to be their Executive MBA--or else.

RC

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"But surely Thames and Malone want the "hybrid MBA" to be their Executive MBA--or else. RC"

Robert,

I would be very interested in your longer thoughts on the letter. As they might ask on the Johnny Carson show, "how bad is it?"

Date: Feb 9, 2005

USM Sympathizer,

See the "HA Article on COB" thread for my initial reaction to the Grimes memo.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"As they might ask on the Johnny Carson show, "how bad is it?" "

How bad is the letter? It's so bad that even the USM eagle mascot who died in that cage a few years ago came back to life and flushed the letter down the toilet before it was seen by SACS.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: COAST Guard
" The "Executive MBA" referenced in the Gulf Park Library memorandum was NOT INITIATED, SUPPORTED, or BEING PLANNED by the College of Business. It's existence (including the plan for its existence) was later denied in writing by Grimes and Malone although referenced specifically by Thames at the last PUC meeting. The "hybrid MBA" program being initiated, developed, and debated in the College of Business is NOT the same program.

Maintaining the distinction betwen the administration's Executive MBA and the "Hybrid MBA" proposal within CoB is very important. The "Hybrid" MBA was originally brought forth to the Graudate Curriculm committee in the first half of November. The proposal has not been approved by the curriculm committee. I have heard that before the program can be implemented, it must be approved by the faculty, Graduate council and have a visitation team by SACS come to campus. The earlliest a SACS team can be on campus is July and Provost Grimes wants Doty to implement a new MBA program when?

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Cob observer
"Maintaining the distinction betwen the administration's Executive MBA and the "Hybrid MBA" proposal within CoB is very important. The "Hybrid" MBA was originally brought forth to the Graudate Curriculm committee in the first half of November. The proposal has not been approved by the curriculm committee. I have heard that before the program can be implemented, it must be approved by the faculty, Graduate council and have a visitation team by SACS come to campus. The earlliest a SACS team can be on campus is July and Provost Grimes wants Doty to implement a new MBA program when?"

Would you confirm please what the Graduate Curriculum Committee is for outsiders - college level committee or university level committee - and what the difference means?

Date: Feb 9, 2005

if i understand the graduate curriculum committee is in the CoB, they make recommendations to the CoB dean, who then forwards the graduate curriculum issues to the Graduate Council (a university committee).

Date: Feb 9, 2005

I am no lawyer, but look, the letter from Grimes to Doty was obviously written with input from a lawyer for the sole purpose of standing up in a greivance or hearning or court to officially document Doty's insubordination and disobedient behavior to justify a future firing. The letter has too many phrases in it like "witnessed by" and, "your agreed to", we said this would happen... and so forth. When is the last time any of you had a meeting with your boss and got a letter like this just to confirm what was discussed? This letter has pure legal consequences to it.

And funny, Doty turned it on Grimes and said he read the letter to the faculty becuase he had an obligation as Dean to tell his faculty the Provost's vision and where the college was going. Genius.

Reminds me of one my favorite C/W songs titled "Don't squat in the garden Granny, 'cause those taters have eyes!" Cw Fan

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Yep, it definitely had that flavor...documentation for something...and there aren't many options.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

if you read doty's response on another thread, you clearly see a legal CYA battle is occurring.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"if you read doty's response on another thread, you clearly see a legal CYA battle is occurring. "

Plus the letter is copied to 3 lawyers. Can't miss that.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

You can only push a person so far . . . There is always hope for some people to finally have enough. Doty's fired back - those attorneys are waiting for the next move. When you wonder what possibly can happen next . . . it only takes a day or so, and then it happens.

Just desserts, SFT and Cronies . . . just desserts.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Reckon there are any groups huddled in the dome figuring out how to respond? *G* might even ask Kentucky lawyers to advise them!

Date: Feb 9, 2005

How many fires do they have to put out now? I suggest a new degree in Fire Prevention. Or even better - Fire Prevention Education K - 12.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

I suggest several courses in firearms training...to save any toes that may be left.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Outside Observer
"Reckon there are any groups huddled in the dome figuring out how to respond? *G* might even ask Kentucky lawyers to advise them!"

Then they will receive the advice they deserve.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: educator
"How many fires do they have to put out now? I suggest a new degree in Fire Prevention. Or even better - Fire Prevention Education K - 12."

My friend Ed:

Those fat cat, old, whiny deans! Fire 'em all and replace them with young and hungry new deans. (Can't wait for the first Jethro letter to hit the HA.)

If this is Harold's letter, and it sounds like a letter he would write, this is more than a fire. We'll see this in the HA, CL, & Chronicle, and should lead to a conflagration that could produce a seachange at USM (fingers crossed). Much more so than Gary and Franks' hosing.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

And a very large settlement for the qualified female candidate who was apparently pass over.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

to all in same boat

We have been in the same f(*&*& boat with ya'll for two years, and you are just now realizing it? The lack of knowledge by your distinginguished group of the unbelievably INTENSE battles in CoB (formerly CBA, CBED, ???? what's next) where we were dictated to, belittled, beshmirched, ridiculed, marginalized, and yes, reduced in number is duly noted. It is not your fault the dirty laundry has not been aired, but I do think some CoB facutly did make it plain as day that they were targetted from the get go.

We have been and will remain in the same boat. Our differences are irrelevant and insignificant in the fight for values and ideals we ALL cherish and debate: academic freedom, free debate, and the pursuit of new ideas to help our fellow human race. I mix it up with COALer's all the time, and I love every one of you.

This has united this university as nothing else could have or would have.

This will be a good thing when SFT is gone, which is NOW sooner rather than later.

We in CoB were not aware that you in COAL, like us in CoB, are so underpaid. We have made our case to SFT but it is too late. The truth comes out in facts and numbers. We can disagree about the role of "markets" in our wage rate being set by the immutable forces of supply and demand, but when salary is below the going rate, we can agree it is not "efficient" much less "fair." So, whether the scale is set a bit higher in Finance or Accounting than History or English, BOTH can be underpaid when the wage is below the equilibrium going rate.

We are in the same boat. Hello. Salaries for productive research active faculty in business is so much lower at USM than at ANY other research extensive university that it pains me to tell you how much. The administration I believe now has those figures but does not care.

As to sabbaticals, oh yeah, there are "select" sabbaticals to "select" faculty, just as I had predicted.

As to getting rid of CoB and merging with COAL, thanks for the idea. Can you see us arguing free markets versus socialism all the time. LOL. Seriously, we would rather be "outsourced" to MSU to earn their higher salary. Actually, now that I think about it, why not outsource to Ole Miss, where the salaries are the highest.

Once upon a time, before Flemming, we were comparable to Ole Miss and MSU.

Now, to Shrimp Picker

"Economic Development" has been around as a separate discipline or sub area in Economics since at least 1942. Actually, it goes back to the 1600s, but that will bore you.

Now, ED is a cannonized subarea classification by the American Economic Association and has been for decades, long before Tim "can i be prez" Hudson was born. Tim Hudson "highjacked" and stole a legitimate scientific label in the latter 1980s in a coups that defies logic. Some in CoB tried to stop it but the dean at the time thought it "harmless." NOT

USM's CoB hosted a NOBEL prize winner in Economics, Amartya Sen, in the 90s and he addressed the honors speaker program. At the social afterward, not one single current prof from the "official" department of "Economic Development" was there, as I recall. I one were to ask Ken Malone who Amartya Sen is, he would reply: "Who, isn't he that new rock violinist?"

Economic Development was usurpted, stolen, co opted, hijacked, and mangled by the Tim Hudson group in Geography. How on earth a senator like Trent Lott could be so bamboozledl is beyond me, but the SFT "pork" barrel machine works this way all the time, every day.

One last thing about this "new" wave of "conscripted" Economic Development:

Mississippi Beef Processors

Date: Feb 9, 2005

To all my colleagues: UNITE! Remember this is OUR CAMPUS

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Ommission: on Nobel in Economics

Date: Feb 9, 2005

RE: RE: comments on grimes letter

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Steven Judd

Date: Feb 9, 2005

RE: RE: RE: comments on grimes letter

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Just sent a note to the Chronicle calling their attention to the latest debacle; now I hope they just PAY attention and do some more fine reporting so that faculty around the country will realize how much is at stake for them in what is happening at USM.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"Just sent a note to the Chronicle calling their attention to the latest debacle; now I hope they just PAY attention and do some more fine reporting so that faculty around the country will realize how much is at stake for them in what is happening at USM."

Did you also send it to Crofts at the IHL?

Date: Feb 9, 2005

RE: Steven Judd