First they came for COAL - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 5, 2005

First they came for COAL

Date: Feb 5, 2005

You have a valid point. However, this is the time to close ranks and defend them. When this is over, if some people need a trip to the woodshed, that'll be the time for recriminations. Not now.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

If the business faculty had been more out spoken and visible last spring, perhaps their current plight would not be so bleak.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

I think this is VERY unfair TFHF. Some of the most vocal and influential PUC members and FS members are CoB faculty. Frankly Doty has been under threat of termination for a year. Rumor is that Niroomand took 57 minutes straight of verbal abuse in the dome.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Fairy,

Wow. What a totally uneducated statement. COB faculty turned out in droves for the campus-wide "no confidence" vote last year, have had our faculty senators remain outspoken against Thames (see last FS meeting and ask about the word "amateurs"), and have had the most anti-Thames dean on campus. Further, there have been COB faculty attempting to recruit assistance from the business community to stop this madness.

What does AAUP membership have to do with anything? Until the AAUP president gets access to Thames and is consulted by him on matters concerning faculty, then AAUP is little more than another anti-Thames group. That said, there are AAUP officers/members in the COB.

Your post title, First they came for COAL, is factually incorrect. They came for all of us at the same time. COAL didn't have to deal with ED; COB did. COAL didn't have to deal with the ramifications of holding ED to some standard of quality; COB did. COAL's dean didn't have to work to get ED out of the college so that accreditation may be saved; COB's dean did. First thay came for all of us. COAL had two public targets, but the COB has been a target since reorganization, as the COB didn't bow to Thames' wishes. COAL had the first martyrs in this fight. That's all. Actually, now that I think about it, First they came for Nursing, since Nursing had just achieved stand-alone college status, which was revoked at the reorg.

Your tone and statements are unappreciated. Our FS representatives have been pro-faculty, our faculty has shown up to vote pro-faculty, and our dean has taken on Thames like no other dean. The fact that we don't join AAUP in droves doesn't mean that we're "hiding under our desks." Your attitude assures that you'll get your share of it before it's over.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Remember the Hanbury affair? Wasn't that the CoB and the Library? We all make different contributions in different ways. The CoB has been there throughout this ordeal, making our contributions as we could.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Some of the university's most lucid voices on FS and AAUP come from the COB. We are all in this together..... no quarter!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Sad CoBer
"I think this is VERY unfair TFHF. Some of the most vocal and influential PUC members and FS members are CoB faculty. Frankly Doty has been under threat of termination for a year. Rumor is that Niroomand took 57 minutes straight of verbal abuse in the dome. "

Please don't misunderstand. I was referring to public, not private (behind closed doors) actions. I am not privy to those. Nonetheless, Martin Niemoller's admonition is applicable to the current deplorable situation at USM. I was also referring to that colleges' rank-and-file who not been heard publically. The posted and printed names I recognize are all from the other colleges. But the College of Business clearly has a very courageous dean.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

None of this matters. We are fighting for the University. Not just this university, but for the very concept itself. Enough of this talking in the ranks. Straighten up and prepare for battle.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Fairy,

So it's better to be public about your actions than to be private about them? I guess that's why assassins usually announce their presence before doing their jobs.

If all you know is what you read in the papers, then is that all COALers have been doing? Every action by a COALer taken in public? The majority of the actions taken by COALers have been in public? If that's the case, then the COAL hasn't contributed much, either.

I would be willing to wager that 75% or more of the actions taken by members of the COAL have been private. Let's just hold COB to a different standard.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: The General
"None of this matters. We are fighting for the University. Not just this university, but for the very concept itself. Enough of this talking in the ranks. Straighten up and prepare for battle."

Aye, aye, cap'n! I mean, General!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

I know you are not pleased that I shared my perceptions with you. But they are my perceptions, and they are the perceptions of others. I am glad you care enough to straighten us out. Your vigorous postings are changing those perceptions. Now let's close ranks. NO QUARTER.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

" Actually, now that I think about it, First they came for Nursing, since Nursing had just achieved stand-alone college status, which was revoked at the reorg. "

Thanks for the Nod!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Sad CoBer
"Rumor is that Niroomand took 57 minutes straight of verbal abuse in the dome. "

57 minutes of verbal abuse? That's his problem. Anybody who tolerates TWO minutes of verbal abuse from a supervisor has tolerated one minute too much. There is always a door.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" 57 minutes of verbal abuse? That's his problem. Anybody who tolerates TWO minutes of verbal abuse from a supervisor has tolerated one minute too much. There is always a door. "

Although I agree with you COMPLETELY, if that were the case then there would be no meetings in the dome...hmmmm...

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: The Friggin' Happiness Fairy
"I know you are not pleased that I shared my perceptions with you. But they are my perceptions, and they are the perceptions of others. I am glad you care enough to straighten us out. Your vigorous postings are changing those perceptions. Now let's close ranks. NO QUARTER."

As soon as we see business faculty writing letters to the editor and quoted in the paper, we will know they are on board. Caring is nice, but action is better.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

More ignorance.

There have been COB faculty quoted in the paper, though you may not recognize them as COB faculty. Again, just because you don't know about it or realize it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Athena
"" Actually, now that I think about it, First they came for Nursing, since Nursing had just achieved stand-alone college status, which was revoked at the reorg. " Thanks for the Nod! "

Well, well, well. Thanks to Happiness Fairy's gently rattling some cages in Business, we now have three colleges in the running for the honor of being the first to be invaded - COAL, CoB, and now Nursing. All three have provided some pretty darn good data. Is there any college whose soil has been untouched? Do we have another nomination for "first to be invaded?" I'll leave the final decision to the war historians - maybe in the sequel to Exit 13.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

I think there's a lot of anti-business feelings being aired here that have nothing to do with Thames. It's no secret that many faculty members resent business' salaries, though that type of thinking is aligned closely with Thames. If USM wants an excellent English professor, then USM has to pay to attract that type of talent. The same can be said for accounting. However, based on the number of available PhDs in the two fields mentioned, the ACC prof will garner a higher salary. Thames doesn't understand this, and neither do many who hate COB's salary structure. COB doesn't hate or devalue other areas -- critical thinking skills, problem solving skills, writing skills, speaking skills, etc., which are taught in other areas only serve to make business better. Again, I think a lot of the negativism on this thread stems from factors unrelated to Thames and Co.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

this is a sad thread. what we need know are people pulling together to get us out the mess with SACS. what we don't need is a civil war among faculty.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by: The Spark
"I think there's a lot of anti-business feelings being aired here that have nothing to do with Thames. It's no secret that many faculty members resent business' salaries, though that type of thinking is aligned closely with Thames. If USM wants an excellent English professor, then USM has to pay to attract that type of talent. The same can be said for accounting. However, based on the number of available PhDs in the two fields mentioned, the ACC prof will garner a higher salary. Thames doesn't understand this, and neither do many who hate COB's salary structure."

The Spark,

I have examined each post on this thread but find absolutely nothing about the salary structure in the college of business. Neither did I find any anti- business sentiment. To the contrary, the original poster noted that the faculty there have not been as openly vocal in this matter as have the faculty in COAL, and added that the college of business has a very courageous dean. Nothing anti- business about that.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

We are all in this together. We will not allow a divide and conquer attitude. Folks, again, we are all in this together.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

"But the College of Business clearly has a very courageous dean." A courageous dean would have simply brought copies of the alleged Grimes letter and passed them out. Instead he "encourages" his faculty to file a FOIA request. Let someone else take the risk. The "very courageous" dean has used his position to reward friends and punish enemies. So how is different from ST?

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Business professors have contributed to this board--as they contributed to the Fire Shelby board that preceded it.

It is going to take every resource that the USM faculty has, to defeat Shelby Thames and his flunkies. In light of that, I would hope that everyone is welcome to contribute, and that everyone who wants to contribute will be made to feel welcome. Whether they come from Arts and Letters, or Health, or Science and Technology, or Education and Psychology, or from Business. Even if they come from locales as notorious as CISE, or the Polymer Palace.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 5, 2005

As someone who loves USM and has great respect for its faculty, I have been following this saga from its start. Some of you have been out front. Some have conducted guerilla warfare. Some have paid a huge price. Momentum is changing. Even the calcified board may be dissolving. Please don't become divided now. NO QUARTER!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Long ago and far away
"As someone who loves USM and has great respect for its faculty, I have been following this saga from its start. Some of you have been out front. Some have conducted guerilla warfare. Some have paid a huge price. Momentum is changing. Even the calcified board may be dissolving. Please don't become divided now. NO QUARTER!"

Fear not. This is just sibling rivalry for the most part. The USM faculty is united as never before. The faculty senate vote made that very clear.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

The General wants you to stop this b*tch*ng and get back to the front. He needs you for the counterattack he is planning. And watch what you say. "Lose lips sink ships."

Date: Feb 6, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: War Historian
"Well, well, well. Thanks to Happiness Fairy's gently rattling some cages in Business, we now have three colleges in the running for the honor of being the first to be invaded - COAL, CoB, and now Nursing. All three have provided some pretty darn good data. Is there any college whose soil has been untouched? Do we have another nomination for "first to be invaded?" I'll leave the final decision to the war historians - maybe in the sequel to Exit 13. "

Don't forget me!

I invaded and occupied before anyone realized what was going on.

Right Daddy?