CoB Bombshell!!! - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 5, 2005

RE: CoB Bombshell!!!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

"These are the recollections I have. The dean said that conversations with the provost were "terse," and I was later told that the letter contained "terse" language that wasn't suitable for publication; if that means foul language or more threatening language or if it explicitly mentioned firing the dean, I don't know."

Thank you, Shaken and Stirred, for this passage/quote from your post. My memory (haze) is somewhat vindicated by your conversations with other(s) about the language of the letter. At least my use of the phrase "near-foul language" seems like a reasonable description.

To the others who responded to my post, I reiterate that I wasn't trying to stir a pot in any event. We are all on the same side.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

When word of this gets out to parents and students, there will be many questions about the business school at USM. Will business faculty advise students to stay or to transfer? What is the best professional advice?

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Several things came to mind as I saw what Leper had written. First & foremost is that Thames has been angling to demolish the College of Business in general & its dean in particular ever since they "rejected" his beloved Economic Development Department. Related to this is the obvious fact that Thames does not consider accreditation to be especially important in his grand scheme of things. Second, I can say with some certainty that an lot of what they do down at GCRL is publishing for "Field & Stream" & assisting at Bubba's bait shop. Scholarly papers? Heck, I've seen them publish articles about rubber bands found on croakers. They know more about croakers than anybody on the face of the planet. Had GCRL not been located in Trent Lott's home county & had it not been run by a personal friend of Trent's (Tom McIlwain), it would have had to close 20-25 years ago."

Invictus, you and David Johnson are right on about the CoB. He can replace all faculty there for half price.

Here's another way to look at the current situation in the CoB. Let's say that the letter is read and there is a furor over it over the next few days. Then, let's say, a retraction and a quasi-apology are issued from the dome that state that basic research is "okay again" in the CoB. This is their pattern of late. But, let's say, caught in the mix of this short-lived spat 2 young junior profs leave the CoB this May (who weren't going to leave before) out of fear/uncertainty. What did this spat-then-retraction do? It sent another $100,000+ in salary lines to central admin, since we all know they won't replace the 2 junior biz profs who leave. This is the "nickel and dime" approach to "destruction of USM" that SFT and the gang are becoming very proficient at.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

rj,

You are right about the effects of a retraction after a week or so.

But don't you think the Black Friday letter reflects Thames and Malone's long-term plans?

Notice how the letter confirms that Thames and Malone want a watered-down Executive MBA program--something they have half-heartedly denied wanting in the recent past.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Andince practice is more important and valuable than basic scholarly research and theory (apologies to Kurt Lewin), usm can hire local business people to teach courses at a fraction of what it pays terminally qualified faculty. No matter that there are many commonly held theories among practitions (e.g., "Happy workers are productive workers," and "If you pay someone for performing an activity they already enjoy they will enjoy the activity even more") that science has shown to be flawed. We don't need to worry about scientific evidence. I would not take a faculty job at USM right now for twice my salary.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Outside Observer
"Andince practice is more important and valuable than basic scholarly research and theory (apologies to Kurt Lewin), usm can hire local business people to teach courses at a fraction of what it pays terminally qualified faculty. No matter that there are many commonly held theories among practitions (e.g., "Happy workers are productive workers," and "If you pay someone for performing an activity they already enjoy they will enjoy the activity even more") that science has shown to be flawed. We don't need to worry about scientific evidence. I would not take a faculty job at USM right now for twice my salary."

Sorry...should read "And since..."

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Nothing is so useful as a good theory. Circa 1947

Date: Feb 5, 2005

I wonder if Doty is thinking "Why didn't I stay at Syracuse?" and SFT is thinking "Why did I give Doty tenure?" What a mess.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kurt Lewin
"Nothing is so useful as a good theory. Circa 1947"

Egg-zactly!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Some new College of Business Course Offerings:

Management:

Paint Store Management

Paint Store Practical Experience

Human Resource Management I: Firing Unproductive Paint Store Employees

Marketing:

Paint Sales

Polymer Marketing Research (change that to Advance Sales)

Accounting:

Inventory I: Counting Paint Cans

Inventory II: Counting Money from Paint Store Sales

Economics:

Supply and Demand of Paint

Date: Feb 5, 2005

But Outside Observer, couldn't these courses be just as easily taught in CoST by polymer scientists?

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: O.O.
"Yep...gives the university more flexibility. Heck...I'd do away with all the colleges...just get a core of really good non-researching teaching faculty...preferably with business experience...let them teach ALL the courses."

I think you've just described the Phoenix model.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Yep...gives the university more flexibility. Heck...I'd do away with all the colleges...just get a core of really good non-researching teaching faculty...preferably with business experience...let them teach ALL the courses.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: CW Fan
"I wonder if Doty is thinking "Why didn't I stay at Syracuse?" and SFT is thinking "Why did I give Doty tenure?" What a mess."

Does anyone really think tenure means anything at USM anymore?

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Here's an e-mail I just sent to the IHL. I urge others to write and to urge colleagues from around the nation to write as well.

Dear IHL,

Reports are circulating at USM that the College of Business faculty have been told to cease engaging in basic research (see report below from USM AAUP message board). If this is true, USM will be killed by SACS, the state of Mississippi will become a joke in national academic circles, and the IHL will deserve huge shame for allowing the mess at USM to proceed this far. PLEASE intervene to stop the damage!

Sincerely,

Robert Evans

=================================

Two passages (out of seven) were read to faculty verbatim, according to both the dean and associate dean.

Passage 1 indicated that the COB would offer an executive-type MBA by fall 2005 OR ELSE one would be offered elsewhere on campus. The letter specified that the program would compete for students with Carey and Phoenix (both named by name). Apparently, this is an extension of an earlier discussion between the dean and provost, where the dean told the provost that having an MBA program not under the COB's control would forfeit AACSB, and the provost's reply was "I don't care."

Passage 2 stated that COB faculty were spending too much time on "basic research" and that, since the COB does not grant a Ph.D., the faculty should cease "basic research" and focus on "applied research" that would directly benefit local business and industry. Also, no new hires will be allowed unless they have relevant industry experience and can do the type of research the provost previously identified as appropriate.

These are the recollections I have. The dean said that conversations with the provost were "terse," and I was later told that the letter contained "terse" language that wasn't suitable for publication; if that means foul language or more threatening language or if it explicitly mentioned firing the dean, I don't know.

Provosts dictating research agendas and program offerings to deans and faculty are not positive to either SACS or AACSB, if my readings of those bodies' guidelines are correct.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Shaken and Stirred
"I was there.
Two passages (out of seven) were read to faculty verbatim, according to both the dean and associate dean.
Passage 1 indicated that the COB would offer an executive-type MBA by fall 2005 OR ELSE one would be offered elsewhere on campus. The letter specified that the program would compete for students with Carey and Phoenix (both named by name). Apparently, this is an extension of an earlier discussion between the dean and provost, where the dean told the provost that having an MBA program not under the COB's control would forfeit AACSB, and the provost's reply was "I don't care."
."

From SACS Principles of Accreditationhttp://www.sacscoc.org/principles.asp, of which USM administrators should take note:

3.4.1 The institution demonstrates that each educational program for which academic credit is awarded (a) is approved by the faculty and the administration, and (b) establishes and evaluates program and learning outcomes.

3.4.12The institution places primary responsibility for the content, quality, and effectiveness of its curriculum with its faculty.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

And since some departments are essentially the administration, be very, very careful that you don't get outSACSed. Is political science in control of the IDV program? Can the dean of CoST be counted on to exhibit some backbone when pressured by the administration? If I heard the story about a newly retired faculty member correctly, I think not.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

stick a fork in shelby, he's done. he is ignoring the SACS consultant advice and is willing jeopardize USM's accreditation. i predict the board will have no choice but to fire him as soon as they can find an replacement. my wife and i have spent too much of this morning discussing how stupid this was.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"stick a fork in shelby, he's done. he is ignoring the SACS consultant advice and is willing jeopardize USM's accreditation. i predict the board will have no choice but to fire him as soon as they can find an replacement. my wife and i have spent too much of this morning discussing how stupid this was. "

What is going today with the Administration reminds me of the time my little brother sat in a red ant hill with a stick. When they bit him, he got mad, and he used the stick to stir them up. But he would not get up and get out of the ant hill.

This administration is not just amatuerish, they are postively preschoolers.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

The dean of COST is nothing but a clone of Shelby Thames.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: NKOB
"The dean of COST is nothing but a clone of Shelby Thames."

Sorry, I was replying to We are We's message.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: We are we
"And since some departments are essentially the administration, be very, very careful that you don't get outSACSed. Is political science in control of the IDV program? Can the dean of CoST be counted on to exhibit some backbone when pressured by the administration? If I heard the story about a newly retired faculty member correctly, I think not."

Gotcha NKOB although there was that moment of pure randomness!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"stick a fork in shelby, he's done. he is ignoring the SACS consultant advice and is willing jeopardize USM's accreditation. i predict the board will have no choice but to fire him as soon as they can find an replacement. my wife and i have spent too much of this morning discussing how stupid this was. "

If the IHL board fires Shelby Thames before his current contract expires, I will be happy to treat you to a steak dinner, SCM. I will be delighted to do so, in fact.

But it ain't going to happen. Thames was hired to dismantle USM. He was just too dim-witted & vain to realize it. If IHL is unhappy about anything, it's that Thames was too obvious about it.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

invictus--thanks for the offer but i'm trying to reduce the amount of red meat i'm eating, although i'd like to take a chunk out of someone's back side. (on the other hand, maybe not--gross).

i've just got this sense that thames has spent all of his political capital with the board and more. i don't think the IHL members want on their resume the loss of USM's accreditation. downsizing or whatever is one thing, the loss of accreditation is another. and i'm sure that this latest move, given what i heard the SACS consultant advised the cabinet on, will seriously jeopardize our accreditation unless they remove Thames. this latest move indicates that he is almost defying SACS and you know how well that goes over with SACS. he could do additional stupid things from now until whenever.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

Surely this whole CoB thing will be a topic at the PUC meeting this coming week. Maybe this is something David Johnson can comment on.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: rj
"Surely this whole CoB thing will be a topic at the PUC meeting this coming week. Maybe this is something David Johnson can comment on."

I don't think David is on the PUC anymore, but I believe Anne Wallace is. SOMEONE definitely needs to mention this, though!

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
". . . i've just got this sense that thames has spent all of his political capital with the board and more. . . . "

I've heard he has spent other capital to secure the silence of some. For example (to borrow the title of a current flick), there's been plenty of speculation about a Million Dollar Baby who retired from the CoB a year or so ago.

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" I don't think David is on the PUC anymore, but I believe Anne Wallace is. SOMEONE definitely needs to mention this, though!"

Isn't Dr. Trellis Green still on the PC? Isn't he part of CoB?

Date: Feb 5, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Silence is Golden, Eagles
"I've heard he has spent other capital to secure the silence of some. For example (to borrow the title of a current flick), there's been plenty of speculation about a Million Dollar Baby who retired from the CoB a year or so ago. "

I've heard that she has the information.