HA: Klumb says Thames stays - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 2, 2005

RE: HA: Klumb says Thames stays

Date: Feb 2, 2005

scm,

You don't think Thames wants revenge on the College of Business, for telling him his pet Economic Development program couldn't remain there?

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 2, 2005

Does anyone think that Klumb is trying to intimidate the Senate--trying to tell the senators that it is no use voting no confidence.

Date: Feb 2, 2005

robert--if he did want revenge, i think the SACS consultant has made it clear that it would be unwise. i think he also now realizes that the program has credentialling problems up the whazoo. it has been made crystal clear to many that "experience" is no longer considered by SACS in faculty credentials. so many in the economic development have experience but not the appropriate terminal degree.

Date: Feb 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"scm, You don't think Thames wants revenge on the College of Business, for telling him his pet Economic Development program couldn't remain there? Robert Campbell"

Dr. Campbell,

Please remember that the first choice of the B-school was to keep economic development and manage it to AACSB quality standards. The second choice was to move it. The third choice was for Shelby to stand up and publicly state what he privately said and that was that AACSB was not important to him. When he used the AACSB argument in front of the IHL and the media, it makes it kind of hard for him to 'fess up on #3.

BB

Date: Feb 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"My conclusion--SACS can even trump the president of the US. "

I don't know about that. Inasmuch as the President of the U.S. has statutory control over the Department of Education, he could issue an executive order stripping regional accrediting agencies of their role as "gatekeepers" for Dept. of Ed.

Your story sounds a bit like the university in question really wasn't crazy about that judge teaching classes & needed an excuse. Please witness the fact that many people "retire" from federal cabinet-level posts to be professors at prestigious institutions. And not all of those former secretaries-of-whatever have PhDs. A lot do have JDs. A judge with a real track record of experience would be fairly easy to write up as an exception. I assume the judge in your story had little going for him except his political connections...

I don't mean to rain on this parade (and it does seem that SACS has taken a giant step backwards since it originally introduced the Principles), but one of the reasons that Dr. James Rogers himself cited for the changes in the credentialling requirements was that certain disciplines (he mentioned computer science) had evolved to the point where private sector salaries for PhDs almost precluded any institutions except the extreme elite from hiring experienced PhDs in those fields. Bear in mind that when I attended the workshop where this was said, a MSCS could legitimately expect to earn over $100K to start in a dot com. Heck, I can recall some AAS graduates from Jones JC's Cisco program claiming to have been offered starting salaries in excess of $75K...

Economic development is not such a discipline. For that matter, neither is polymer science...

Date: Feb 2, 2005

invictus--i'll only respond to one item in your post. According to the SACS consultant, and this has been emphasized repeatedly since her visit, experience can't be used as an exception anymore. as she put it, "that's old SACS, not new SACS." i'm just repeating her words.

Date: Feb 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Outsider
"Does anyone think that Klumb is trying to intimidate the Senate--trying to tell the senators that it is no use voting no confidence. "

What else would Klumb be doing?

If the Senate fails to pass the resolution of no confidence in Thames, Klumb will boast that the "silent majority" of faculty really like his guy after all.

If the Senate passes the resolution, Klumb will remind everyone that he was going to ignore it.

RC

Date: Feb 2, 2005

RC,

I agree with your assertion that Klumb is attempting to intimidate the faculty. But I also see this as a positive article for all of us because Klumb was not overly supportive of Thames as he has be in the past. Klumb basically said that this guy needs replacing, but now is not the time, which is a definite positive and jives with what I am hearing from the College Board. Thames has had his wings clipped pretty badly and his ego, believe it or not, busted. However, an animal is most dangerous when it is wounded, and I believe that holds true for idiots. Having said this, I sincerely hope that the Senate votes no confidence today. And contrary to what Cain said about faculty and students, I can say with confidence that the silent majority of alumni are ready to get rid of this idiot.

Date: Feb 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"invictus--i'll only respond to one item in your post. According to the SACS consultant, and this has been emphasized repeatedly since her visit, experience can't be used as an exception anymore. as she put it, "that's old SACS, not new SACS." i'm just repeating her words. "

That's why I inserted that parenthetical note about SACS taking a giant step back. I suspect what they found was that the original "loosening" of the requirements in the Principles were mightily abused by institutions.

I also suspect that a lot of the original "loosening" was intended to help out community & technical schools with staffing in high tech areas, particularly 1- and 2-year terminal occupational degree programs. SACS probably didn't intend to loosen up credentialling requirements in fields where there is no shortage of terminal degrees or no overarching private sector pay considerations that limit hiring people with advanced degrees.

Also, the general rule even during a "normal" follow-up to a self study when an institution is "responding" to committee recommendations, is to be as old-fashioned as possible. Certainly, an institution in the predicament that USM finds itself today is well-advised to be as "old SACS" as it possibly can.

Date: Feb 2, 2005

the loosening also came about from department of education directives. some regional accrediting associations (not SACS) got silly in their prescriptiveness. the person who led SACS in changing its principles was none other than Khayat.

Date: Feb 2, 2005

Does anybody on here know whether the FS meeting at 5 pm in Cook 123 will be an executive session or open to the public?

Date: Feb 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"the person who led SACS in changing its principles was none other than Khayat. "

I'd forgotten that. Isn't it a contrast between one president (Khayat) who heads up a major initiative for the accrediting agency & another president (Thames) who doesn't know what the rules are & doesn't think the association is important enough to merit his own attendance when his institution has its neck on the block?

<OFF-TOPIC DIGRESSION>
It all comes down to style, experience & know-how. IHL knew when it hired Khayat that it was getting a pretty good package, with the added bonus of the prez being a popular football player & generally classy guy. They also knew when they hired Thames what they were getting, too. This is why I am & will remain a "conspiracy theorist."
</OFF-TOPIC DIGRESSION>

Date: Feb 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
"

I, for one and speaking as a student, would support a No Confidence vote in Walt Cain."

Aren't SGA elections soon. Did they already happen? students on this board or just all students period, need to ask the imoprtant questions from these candidates.

I've said it before

IMPEACH CAIN