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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> CISE eatery cash flow problems
Post Info TOPIC: CISE eatery cash flow problems
stinky cheese man

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RE: CISE eatery cash flow problems
Permalink Closed

to the food network--i understand your concern about privatizing the food services area, but this is a 15-20 year issue at USM. as well as an issue at other universities both within the state and outside. no one would address it as a viable option as long as AKL was president. whether it is good or not is another issue, but it wasn't going to be seriously examined as long as AKL was president.

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Trucker

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quote:
Originally posted by: Short-order cook
"Providing students and faculty with a more convenient, luxiourious, or more economical environment to sip their banana-flavored cherry-dipped cimmanon-sprinkled Latte is not really an important issue. These are, however, at least two important issues: 1. The total lack of broad faculty and staff inolvement in the decision to privitize food services. 2. The sudden removal of large numbers of faithful employees from state empoyee status (along with its benefits) to the private sector. Those two matters are of legitimate concern to faculty and staff.  "
I don't recall these particular issues being raised elsewhere on this board. Did I miss something? They do seem to be important given the overall events at USM during the past two years.

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stinky cheese man

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a major digression. since there seems to be a real cynicism on this thread--watch MASH. If you're in the burg, it's the hallmark channel (channel 17). does wonders for me.

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Least Venerable

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i hate to get involved in this...however, i am weary of thinking that my frequenting (or not) of starbucks, the new campus restaurant, or the bookstore are going to make much of a difference in what happens to this university, particularly in the areas that matter. "
Well said my friend,  and without vitriol.  I'll second your sentiments. It seems to me that we have far greater issues to fulminate over than the campus coffee shop, which we are free to patronize, or not.  None of the major universities with which I've been associated, and there have been several,  ever solicited faculty opinions concerning their choice of coffee and food purveyors, and most of them sub-contracted food services.  I should also interject that two members of my own family, while students at USM in the late 90's, refused to eat at the USM run food outlets due to poor quality cuisine and a lack of variety. I have heard similar complaints from students for years,  but none this year, since the changeover.  Market forces will decide whether this  foray into privatization is successful.  If the quality, service, and prices are not satisfactory,  these businesses will fail, or withdraw on their own.  In the mean time,  I believe all this carping only serves to make us look petty and foolish.

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Diogenes

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quote:
Originally posted by: Least Venerable
" It seems to me that we have far greater issues to fulminate over than the campus coffee shop, which we are free to patronize, or not... I believe all this carping only serves to make us look petty and foolish. "
Yea verily!

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Diogenes

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Least Venerable
"  None of the major universities with which I've been associated, and there have been several,  ever solicited faculty opinions concerning their choice of coffee and food purveyors, and most of them sub-contracted food services.   "

Just for my own edification, does anyone know whether the on-campus food services at Ole Miss and MSU are out-sourced, or privatized, or whatever the PC term is today?  If so, how are they doing? 


I do know that food services are at least partially privatized at Cal, Washington, Texas, and Michigan, all tier-1 institutions.  From what I've seen on those campuses, all of the commercial vendors are well received and popular.  Personally I think most of their food is crap,  but the students seem to like it. This public-private partnership scheme is not a new idea,  nor is it the brainchild of Thames, Lassen, Dvorak, or any of the other usual suspects. 



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stinky cheese man

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i think ole miss outsourced theirs years ago.

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Diogenes

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i think ole miss outsourced theirs years ago."
Really?  Then why no demands for the head of Bobby Khayat?  Seriously,  I spoke with a colleague on the OM faculty this morning,  and asked about their "outsourced" food services.  He told me that this happened several years ago,  that insofar as he knew there had been no faculty input, that the change had been made for economic reasons and decided on an administrative level;  there had been no objections from faculty or students.  He actually guffawed when I told him that this was a major issue at USM.  He said that if anything,  the food quality and selection on campus at OM  had vastly improved from the days of institutional food. 

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truth4usm/AH

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Diogenes
"Really?  Then why no demands for the head of Bobby Khayat?  <snipped> "

Because Bobby Khayat is not an egotistical, meglomaniacal, short-sighted tyrant of an administrator whose greed and nepotism informs way too many of his professional decisions.


'nuff said.



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Short-order cook

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Diogenes
"Really?  Then why no demands for the head of Bobby Khayat?  Seriously,  I spoke with a colleague on the OM faculty this morning,  and asked about their "outsourced" food services.  He told me that this happened several years ago,  that insofar as he knew there had been no faculty input, that the change had been made for economic reasons and decided on an administrative level;  there had been no objections from faculty or students.  He actually guffawed when I told him that this was a major issue at USM."
Diogenes, It is not surprising that Ole Miss morphed from a public to a private food sourcing model with no fanfare. The Ole Miss colleague with whom you spoke this morning is undoubtedly correct: Khayat probably obtained little if any input on that matter when it occurred at Ole Miss. It is important to note, however, that there is appropriate faculty input on the major matters at Ole Miss. USM, on the other hand, has taken numerous important actions without appropriate faculty input (e.g., use of the Albertson's building, and then non-use of the Albertson's building; planning an MBA program on the coast; important program development matters; important personnel matters.  Such examples at USM have appeared regularly on this message board. The Ole Miss food service move, by itself, is a minor one. But Bobby Khyayat does obtain faculty input on the important matters. Such input is not the practice at USM. As an aside, at USM not only was food services privitized, but the privitization extended to the book store enterprises, and to the golf course, etc. There is a big difference in shared governance at Ole Miss when compared with USM. Bobby Khyayat has done some great things for Ole Miss. It is not surprising that his moving from a public to a private model for their food services would present no problem for the faculty.

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IMWTK

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I'm aware that many universities have privately run food services and some familiar vendors like McDonalds on campus. Do some campuses have a mix of university run and privately run outlets? When universities add private vendors like Starbucks, do they privatize all outlets on campus at the same time?

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Pass the blackeyed peas

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Diogenes
"He actually guffawed when I told him that this was a major issue at USM." 
It's not entirely accurate to say that outsourcing of its food services presents a major issue at USM. The major issue is shared governance in appropriate matters. If the traditional practices of shared governance that are employed at other major universities applied at USM, the outsourcing of food services would be but a passing ship in the dark. There are administrative decisions that must be made on a daily basis by the head honcho. There are other decisions, academic in nature, that should be made only with appropriate faculty consultation. The issue here is not food services qua food services. That is a decision which under normal circumstrances would be made "upstairs." But things are not normal here. Lots of academic values have been under attack.  

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Diogenes

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RE: RE: RRE: CISE eatery cash flow problems
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Short-order cook
"Diogenes, It is not surprising that Ole Miss morphed from a public to a private food sourcing model with no fanfare. The Ole Miss colleague with whom you spoke this morning is undoubtedly correct: Khayat probably obtained little if any input on that matter when it occurred at Ole Miss. It is important to note, however, that there is appropriate faculty input on the major matters at Ole Miss. USM, on the other hand, has taken numerous important actions without appropriate faculty input (e.g., use of the Albertson's building, and then non-use of the Albertson's building; planning an MBA program on the coast; important program development matters; important personnel matters.  Such examples at USM have appeared regularly on this message board. The Ole Miss food service move, by itself, is a minor one. But Bobby Khyayat does obtain faculty input on the important matters. Such input is not the practice at USM. As an aside, at USM not only was food services privitized, but the privitization extended to the book store enterprises, and to the golf course, etc. There is a big difference in shared governance at Ole Miss when compared with USM. Bobby Khyayat has done some great things for Ole Miss. It is not surprising that his moving from a public to a private model for their food services would present no problem for the faculty. "
Got it. Your points are well taken and I agree down the line concerning the litany of Thames engineered insults and slights.  Thames is incompetent and corrupt, and he needs to take a hike.  Taking a somewhat contrarian view however,  I'm of the opinion that choosing one's battles carefully is critical,  and making a big deal of the privatization of food services at USM isn't a particularly wise choice.  As someone said earlier on this thread, it makes us look petty and foolish. It may not even have been Thames' idea for all we know.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he was mimicking Ole Miss or some other school;  he's hardly an original thinker.  So far as I know shared governance,  as practiced by Dr. Khayat at Ole Miss, and at other well run universities,  does not typically encompass non-academic areas such as housekeeping, groundskeeping, and food services.  I don't buy coffee from Starbucks,  or eat at the sushi joint,  but that's a personal choice.  I feel that highlighting and protesting a change that has been seamless and uncontroversial at other institutions,  even within the "backward" state of Mississippi,  isn't the best use of whatever clout this faculty may possess.  That's all, and I certainly respect those of you who feel otherwise.  That said, you may be assured that I will continue to bypass the campus eateries whenever I'm overcome with thirst or hunger.

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Diogenes

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RE: CISE eatery cash flow problems
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Pass the blackeyed peas
"It's not entirely accurate to say that outsourcing of its food services presents a major issue at USM. The major issue is shared governance in appropriate matters. If the traditional practices of shared governance that are employed at other major universities applied at USM, the outsourcing of food services would be but a passing ship in the dark. There are administrative decisions that must be made on a daily basis by the head honcho. There are other decisions, academic in nature, that should be made only with appropriate faculty consultation. The issue here is not food services qua food services. That is a decision which under normal circumstrances would be made "upstairs." But things are not normal here. Lots of academic values have been under attack.  "
Actually, to be precise, I think I told him  this was a major issue on the USM-AAUP message board, which I realize now is likely a mischaracterization.  Posters here are a non-random sample, and I have no clue how the "majority" feel about food service outsourcing. I would  add that the sentence I find most telling in your comment is: "The major issue is shared governance in appropriate matters."  I'm simply opining that food services aren't typically within the purview of shared governance,  and by trying to make it so at USM,  we dilute our effectiveness in redressing the appropriate matters to which you refer.  Lord knows there's an abundance of them.

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truth4usm/AH

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Diogenes
"Actually, to be precise, I think I told him  this was a major issue on the USM-AAUP message board, which I realize now is likely a mischaracterization.  Posters here are a non-random sample, and I have no clue how the "majority" feel about food service outsourcing. I would  add that the sentence I find most telling in your comment is: "The major issue is shared governance in appropriate matters."  I'm simply opining that food services aren't typically within the purview of shared governance,  and by trying to make it so at USM,  we dilute our effectiveness in redressing the appropriate matters to which you refer.  Lord knows there's an abundance of them. "
D, I think you've got it backwards here.  What we are trying to tell you is this:  since there is, in effect, no shared governance at USM, then EVERY issue is looked at through this lens (whether or not it deserves to be).  This is dysfunctional behavior, yes, but it is in response to being told so often that your opinion doesn't matter.  Also, this board is made up of (mostly) anonymous posters...creative trolls have and will hijack the board however they want (until the Webmaster zaps them, that is).  I wouldn't necessarily take the opinions on this board to be the opinion of any USM faculty unless they are labelled as such (esp. since there are probabaly more non-faculty members posting than fac. members).  Just an FYI...

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Diogenes

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"D, I think you've got it backwards here.  What we are trying to tell you is this:  since there is, in effect, no shared governance at USM, then EVERY issue is looked at through this lens (whether or not it deserves to be).  This is dysfunctional behavior, yes, but it is in response to being told so often that your opinion doesn't matter.  Also, this board is made up of (mostly) anonymous posters...creative trolls have and will hijack the board however they want (until the Webmaster zaps them, that is).  I wouldn't necessarily take the opinions on this board to be the opinion of any USM faculty unless they are labelled as such (esp. since there are probabaly more non-faculty members posting than fac. members).  Just an FYI..."
Thank you Truth. As always,  I value your opinions and insights. And as you say,  I (we) sometimes lose sight of who's actually doing the posting here; generalizations such as I made are clearly ill advised.  It do get confusin' sometimes.

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Invictus

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RE: RE: RE: RRE: CISE eatery cash flow problems
Permalink Closed

I agree with other posters that food services simply isn't an area where most universities are going to solicit faculty input before proceeding with outsourcing plans. Just my , but to carp about this is petty & cheapens the more serious issues.

A coffee shop in the library? Spill issues aside, they have Starbucks in Barnes & Nobles. What's the big deal? Many times when I was a student, I desperately needed a fix of caffeine but had to choose between "library-ing" or walking to another location to get my java. (I've not checked, but Starbucks may be allied with B&N in much the same way that Pepsi is allied with Burger King. It may not be coincidental that USM has contracts with both outfits, because it may ultimately be the same outfit. But I digress.)

The real issues where shared governance has been stomped at USM are in academic planning, faculty hiring & promotion, reorganization of colleges & departments, and yes, accreditation.


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anonymous

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RE: CISE eatery cash flow problems
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one of the things that really especially sucked about coming to work here was the lack of healthy food on campus or food that i would actually want to eat. by improving services here they are attempting to bring this school up to the normal caliber of other world-class universities, etc. i don't have the time or money to go off campus for lunch every day, especially to a restaurant. i could possibly go over to the corner market and buy some sushi from sakura, but i'm really not crazy about raw asparagus or pieces of rotten avocado. i'm not crazy about starbucks for personal reasons and plan to keep supporting javawerks as i can, but i'm not rabid about it. competition can exist,you know? in any given town there can be more than one of anything. any decent campus food service on any university anywhere is going to have some whiff of corporatization involved. please don't boycott these new services. i don't give a rat's ass about whether my lunch money goes to the administration or not...i'd just like a decent lunch once in a while.

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Diogenes

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Permalink Closed


quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus
"I agree with other posters that food services simply isn't an area where most universities are going to solicit faculty input before proceeding with outsourcing plans. Just my , but to carp about this is petty & cheapens the more serious issues.  ...The real issues where shared governance has been stomped at USM are in academic planning, faculty hiring & promotion, reorganization of colleges & departments, and yes, accreditation. "


Yeah, that's what I was trying to say--we should save our ammunition for the "real issues"  you've cited.  I just didn't present my thoughts as succinctly as you.  Now I'll shut up and crawl back under my rock. 

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Grad Student

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: anonymous
"one of the things that really especially sucked about coming to work here was the lack of healthy food on campus or food that i would actually want to eat. by improving services here they are attempting to bring this school up to the normal caliber of other world-class universities, etc. i don't have the time or money to go off campus for lunch every day, especially to a restaurant. i could possibly go over to the corner market and buy some sushi from sakura, but i'm really not crazy about raw asparagus or pieces of rotten avocado. i'm not crazy about starbucks for personal reasons and plan to keep supporting javawerks as i can, but i'm not rabid about it. competition can exist,you know? in any given town there can be more than one of anything. any decent campus food service on any university anywhere is going to have some whiff of corporatization involved. please don't boycott these new services. i don't give a rat's ass about whether my lunch money goes to the administration or not...i'd just like a decent lunch once in a while. "
Bravo!  I feel the same way.  A steady diet of the in-house crap that USM food services formerly provided would probably have killed the proverbial laboratory rats.   Like most poor students I eat at home or off campus whenever it's convenient,  but it's great to have other options readily available in a pinch.  I've heard nothing but kudos from fellow students about the new food joints, including Starbucks.  If their quality falls off  or we think they're getting too pricey,  we'll stop buying and they'll fail due to market forces.  For now, leave my food alone, please.

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Chavez

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The issue was never the quality of the food. It was the fate of low income staff members who worked for food services as state employees.

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Invictus

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Diogenes
"Yeah, that's what I was trying to say--we should save our ammunition for the "real issues"  you've cited.  I just didn't present my thoughts as succinctly as you.  Now I'll shut up and crawl back under my rock.  "


A rock? I thought you hung out in a tub!

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Diogenes

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" A rock? I thought you hung out in a tub!"

Invictus:


Naah,  the tub comes later.  I'm still at the eating plain food and sleeping on bare ground phase. In other words,  enlightenment is yet to come, or so I hope.  Inasmuch as this is the 21st century,  I wonder if a hot tub would be appropriate for my purposes,  or would that disqualify me as a bona fide ascetic? How about drinking a Starbuck's latte?  Does Mr. Dylan have any pearls of wisdom for me?


Respectfully,


Diogenes



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truth4usm/AH

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Diogenes
"Thank you Truth. As always,  I value your opinions and insights. And as you say,  I (we) sometimes lose sight of who's actually doing the posting here; generalizations such as I made are clearly ill advised.  It do get confusin' sometimes. "

No problem, D.  Glad to serve my role as board den mother and overall Queen of the Obvious...




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Invictus

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Diogenes
"Does Mr. Dylan have any pearls of wisdom for me?"


Sure. Why not? Just remember, that's Doctor Dylan!

THINGS HAVE CHANGED

A worried man with a worried mind
No one in front of me and nothing behind
There's a woman on my lap and she's drinking champagne
Got white skin, got assassin's eyes
I'm looking up into the sapphire tinted skies
I'm well dressed, waiting on the last train
Standing on the gallows with my head in a noose
Any minute now I'm expecting all hell to break loose

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed

This place ain't doing me any good
I'm in the wrong town, I should be in Hollywood
Just for a second there I thought I saw something move
Gonna take dancing lessons do the jitterbug rag
Ain't no shortcuts, gonna dress in drag
Only a fool in here would think he's got anything to prove
Lot of water under the bridge, Lot of other stuff too
Don't get up gentlemen, I'm only passing through

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed

I've been walking forty miles of bad road
If the bible is right, the world will explode
I've been trying to get as far away from myself as I can
Some things are too hot to touch
The human mind can only stand so much
You can't win with a losing hand
Feel like falling in love with the first woman I meet
Putting her in a wheel barrow and wheeling her down the street

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed

I hurt easy, I just don't show it
You can hurt someone and not even know it
The next sixty seconds could be like an eternity
Gonna get low down, gonna fly high
All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie
I'm in love with a woman who don't even appeal to me
Mr. Jinx and Miss Lucy, they jumped in the lake
I'm not that eager to make a mistake

People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed


Copyright © 1999 Special Rider Music
(2001 Academy Award, "The Wonder Boys")

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Diogenes

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Sure. Why not? Just remember, that's Doctor Dylan! THINGS HAVE CHANGED A worried man with a worried mind ... People are crazy and times are strange I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range I used to care, but things have changed Copyright © 1999 Special Rider Music (2001 Academy Award, "The Wonder Boys")"

Uncanny.  I was listening to that very same Dylan CD only 10 minutes earlier. Must be an omen.  That's it for me...signing off, have to go price ascetic hot tubs.....good for my lumbago.


Diogenes



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Invictus

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So, were you listening to the "Essential Bob Dylan" compilation or the (vastly superior) Victoria's Secret "Love Sick" promo?

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Diogenes

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"So, were you listening to the "Essential Bob Dylan" compilation or the (vastly superior) Victoria's Secret "Love Sick" promo?"
"Essential Bob Dylan" it was.  I haven't heard the Victoria's Secret promo, although I understand it's now a favorite of Tim Hudson.

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MakeTheMost

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quote:
Originally posted by: Chavez
"The issue was never the quality of the food. It was the fate of low income staff members who worked for food services as state employees."

While I DO agree that we have fantastic staff members at USM (all over campus) who are badly underpaid, this message sounds ridiculous.


The "fate of low-income staff members" is up to the staff members, my friend. There are lots of jobs in Hattiesburg, not just at USM, and those low-paid staff members can get free classes to make up for low pay and move out to a better-paying job after earning a degree or two. That is the big advantage of working on campus........... the classes that are free for the taking, and people who do not milk that for all it is worth are unable to throw stones at low salaries later on. Sure, the pay is bad, but the opportunities are better. Take the job for the opportunities and you are doing something for yourself. I do not defend the pay. It is horrible. But, you could do far, far worse regarding the opportunities and benefits afforded to you.



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Chavez

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quote:
Originally posted by: MakeTheMost
"
While I DO agree that we have fantastic staff members at USM (all over campus) who are badly underpaid, this message sounds ridiculous.
The "fate of low-income staff members" is up to the staff members, my friend. There are lots of jobs in Hattiesburg, not just at USM, and those low-paid staff members can get free classes to make up for low pay and move out to a better-paying job after earning a degree or two. That is the big advantage of working on campus........... the classes that are free for the taking, and people who do not milk that for all it is worth are unable to throw stones at low salaries later on. Sure, the pay is bad, but the opportunities are better. Take the job for the opportunities and you are doing something for yourself. I do not defend the pay. It is horrible. But, you could do far, far worse regarding the opportunities and benefits afforded to you."


Are you saying that the former USM staff members who now work for Aramark retain their free classes and half price tuition for their children? Is their retirement program comparable to the state program? Health insurance?

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