Gulf Park Library in Jeopardy - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 18, 2005

RE: Gulf Park Library in Jeopardy

Date: Jan 18, 2005

A banner day,
"I was wondering what USM banners were doing in Ocean Springs..."

Ocean Springs is host to the USM Gulf Coast Research Laboratory. It has been there for years. I think they do Marine Biology research there. Last time I was there was late 80's or early 90's and there were student dorms there. I know it is still there but I'm not sure which programs are there. Does anyone else know? I also think USM has some labs or programs associated with the JL Scott Marine Education Center but that is in Biloxi.

NC

Date: Jan 18, 2005

GCRL is part of Marine Sciences, yes, as is the Marine Education Center. At one time (25+ years ago) GCRL was free-standing but IHL but it under USM, which was supposed to have the proverbial "lead" in marine sciences.

I don't know about today, but back "when" the dorms at GCRL were used for their summer session when students came in from "consortium" institutions all over the country to take undergrad & graduate level marine biology classes. The air conditioning ducts were perfectly sized for keeping six-packs cool is about all I can remember...

Date: Jan 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"board members do have to have a college degree. Fordice tried to appoint one who didn't have a college degree."
Your posting brings up an interesting question, stinky cheese man: should a college degree be required before appointment to the college board.

Among those with whom I have regular contact outside the university, it seems to be those with no formal college education who have the good judgment and presence of mind to run academic affairs.

My mom valued a college education, but she never had the opportunity to attend. I would substitute her judgment anyday for some educated bozos who think they know everything.

There are exceptions, of course. But the fact that all of Mississippi's IHL members are college graduates -or beyond! I haven't seen much evidence that their formal education is helping very much in administering higher education here.

Date: Jan 18, 2005

Just reviewed Kenbot's unapproved EMBA program as included in the architectual redesign plans for the Gulf Park Library. It has a different target market from the College of Business MBA program. It has different learning outcomes. It has different admission criteria. It has a different delivery structure. It calls for different curriculum. Both SACS and AACSB will consider this a different program from the MBA program offered by the College of Business. Prior to being offered, this program must be approved by the College of Business graduate programs committee, the College faculty, the Business School Dean, the University Graduate Council, and the IHL Board. Without proper faculty input and approval, launch of this program will result in a loss of AACSB accreditation and pose a serious challenge to SACS accreditation. The AACSB may allow Kenbot to sell economic development degrees, especially now that ED is no longer in the COB. The AACSB will not allow him sell accredited EMBA degrees, no matter where the program is located.

Date: Jan 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Indecent Proposal
"Just reviewed Kenbot's unapproved EMBA program as included in the architectual redesign plans for the Gulf Park Library. It has a different target market from the College of Business MBA program. It has different learning outcomes. It has different admission criteria. It has a different delivery structure. It calls for different curriculum. Both SACS and AACSB will consider this a different program from the MBA program offered by the College of Business. Prior to being offered, this program must be approved by the College of Business graduate programs committee, the College faculty, the Business School Dean, the University Graduate Council, and the IHL Board. Without proper faculty input and approval, launch of this program will result in a loss of AACSB accreditation and pose a serious challenge to SACS accreditation. The AACSB may allow Kenbot to sell economic development degrees, especially now that ED is no longer in the COB. The AACSB will not allow him sell accredited EMBA degrees, no matter where the program is located."

This very excellent point has now been made in both faculty senate and in academic counsel (AC's interest is in changes to the library and im;act on undergrad programs at GC.)

Grad Council is also now alerted to this although I don't know if has yet become an agenda item. I believe that grad council will be asked by some grad council members to request a schedule of consultation and review/approrval (w/CoB, Grad Council and other approprirate academic bodies). I thinl there will also be some pointed questuons about who will administer the program, since it does not seem to be originating from Business -- in fact it so far seems like an end-run around business.

I believe AC will ask that any work on the library be held off until the program is approved (if). And a number of GC faculty members suggested alternative sites avaiable on the GC campus. There is some feeling that the library was chosen not because it is the only avaiable space, but because it is a nice new and lovely building in which to house an "elite" program.

Date: Jan 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"There is some feeling that the library was chosen not because it is the only avaiable space, but because it is a nice new and lovely building in which to house an "elite" program."

Sounds just like the rationale for putting the ED/IDV group in the new International Center. Above all nations is humanity; above all others are the "elite" programs.

Date: Jan 18, 2005

The goals (certainly unstated) by Kenbot and company are clear. They want to create a E-MBA program to give executives out 10 yrs or so an MBA education at an extreme price. I have a friend who teaches in the EMBA program at a top fifty school. Here is how theirs works:

They charge about $50,000 for an EMBA, pay faculty a couple thousand per course, pay expenses, and keep the difference for the college (Of course, Kenbot will turn this over to SFT for their "economic development" fund). These things are money-makers.

My guess is that Kenbot and crew will set a price point at about $20K-$30K. BUT - He has some serious problems:

1) These EMBA are often covered by the business. Or if not, what makes SFT think that anyone would spend $20-$30K for an MBA from USM, when they can spend a few thousand more and go to Georgia, or Ohio State, or some other school in the $25-$50K range? It is laughable to think so.

2) Clearly,unless it is rammed down COB's throat somehow, the program WILL BE UNACCEPTABLE to AACSB. See point 1).

3) Therefore, they will sell this by (most likely) minimizing the accreditation issue, or not mentioning it at all ("Our E-MBA program is a part of USM, which has a fully-accredited business school" <-- subtly, see how they can get around the accreditation problem?) In the end, it will be some kind of "three card monty" of a sales job, that will seek to take money from unsuspecting executives.

I suspect the faculty, Dean, and all others associated with COB where completely blown away by this sudden announcement. Is this how strategic plans (again, without input from anyone)are implemented???

Hilarious, hilarious - Count

Date: Jan 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Counting the days
"completely blown away by this sudden announcement. "

Correct me if I'm wrong Count but I don't think this nonexistent EMBA program was announced. I think it came to light only because someone (Insurgent x?) released the library renovation plans to the website.

Date: Jan 19, 2005

I looked at the AACSB standards just to check. It appears that if this program is launched outside of the business school USM will not have an AACSB accredited business school. Whether you like the CoB or not, loss of AACSB accreditation would be very bad for the university.

Date: Jan 19, 2005

Isn't it also the case that such International Development courses as Finance--taught outside the College of Business, by an alleged faculty member with no training in the Business disciplines and no publications in any of them--would bring unfavorable attention from the AACSB?

Robert Campbell

Date: Jan 19, 2005

Yes, of course.

Date: Jan 20, 2005

Shrimp-picker,

Did you attend the summer program at GCRL? Please let me know. I am compiling a list of former students. I am especially interested if you did master's or PhD work on the campus and would like to add that information to a database.

Date: Jan 20, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Isn't it also the case that such International Development courses as Finance--taught outside the College of Business, by an alleged faculty member with no training in the Business disciplines and no publications in any of them--would bring unfavorable attention from the AACSB? Robert Campbell"

Robert,

If business courses are being offered at a university outside of the b-school (i.e., without b-school input, b-school faculty, etc. such as what we're seeing with Malone et al.), the b-school will face about a 99% chance of losing AACSB, regardless of how good things may be inside the b-school.

Date: Jan 21, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: insurgent x
". . . A document has surface at Gulf Park detailing a very elaborate plan to do extensive renovation to the top floor of the new Gulf Park Library Building to create a new conference center. The detailed design drawings show the virtual elemination of the third floor stacks area containing the main book collection and study area for students at Gulf Park.The new conference center will serve a specialty program "The Executive MBA" which will be a hybrid online and weekend program.....We do not need new classroom space to accomodate a weekend program at Gulf Park. The new degree expects to enroll 28 persons per year and needs "premium" space.We and the Coast community struggled for many years for a decent library here. The battle for that building was long and hard. That teaching and learning tool was built to ALA standards for a 2500 student campus and to support a new four year program and anticipated new bachelors degree programs on the Coast. This sacred building is now apparently to be torn up in the interests of a 28 student graduate hybrid program.---for weekend use only!!!The committee who concocted this plan of destruction had NO FACULTY SERVING ON IT. Ken Malone chaired the committee, and four technical people from physical plant and ITech on the Coast served with three architectural consultants. Is it normal that a faculty is deeply involved in planning a building that is an important academic tool, and that that building is then torn up with NO FACULTY input? I admit that I know longer know the meaning of normal after thirty years in this business. The better question would be "is this good instructionally.?"The Gulf Parl library building has serious implications for the integrity of our four-year instructional program on the Coast. I think we are flirting with new accreditation problems when we devote vast community and faculty effort to a tool for instruction, and then let one man take that tool away without debate.This is a grave mistake for USM on the Coast. It seems that if we have any old fashioned commitment to doing the right thing instructionally in this institution, we are destined to be batted from pillar to post almost daily. Our organization is being run by people that have no experience of running a school and no appreciation for basic teaching and learning processes.I would invite the Senate to lodge a protest about the destruction of crucial library facilities at Gulf Park without faculty and student input....and without community input,----this was THE Building needed to make a four year program feasible ---that was what Board members told Coast 21 . . . 5 years ago!!!!"

Were you part of the “human chain” that moved books from the old Cox Library to the new library at Gulf Park on your own time during a break between terms?

Is this why you helped to stretch the operating budget while providing a “photo op” for WLOX and the Sun Herald?

Date: Jan 21, 2005

Chain Gang, I'm not sure I understand your question of insugent x, and by extension of Dr. PAt Smith, whose original post you quoted. Are you saying that it was their fault that the operating budget was streched to cover publicity or what?

As for myself, I and other faculty, staff and family spent about 8 hours humping books between the old library and the new on the weekend before the freaking photo op. It was about 90 degrees and the carts had to be pushed up a grade. Each of them weighed, fully loaded, around 350 pounds. They had been made by the physical plant and were, although pretty functional, pretty unstable as well. My 16 year old son had one fall over on him twice, one time just barely escaping being pinned against a door. The head of the library, Ed McCormick, was pinned against a door by one and received a nasty bruise/gash on the leg. It was hot and muggy outside and a/c cold inside,and we moved as fast as we could between those two extremes all day. In my prior life I've been a road construction shovel carrier and a longshoreman, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to describing hard physcial work. Believe me when I say that moving those books was as hard as anything I ever did back in the day. The photo shoot chain gang the next week was silly compared to that. All in all, I'd estimate that between one third and one half of all the books that made the move from the old Cox Library and Curriculum Library to the new Library were moved by that volunteer crew on the day and manner I described.

It was a splendid experience, seeing the entire Gulf Coast community out there in hot sunlight and danger, pulling together, as volunteers, to realize the long postponed dream of genuine higher education for the Coast. And nary a TV camera or news photographer or grandstanding administrator in sight.

I promise you Chain Gang; I, for one, will see NOT that "dream deferred," or revoked. Those books are going to stay where I helped put them. Look to it.

Date: Jan 22, 2005

Did you “Buy A Brick for Books” for the new library at Gulf Park when it opened as a way of supporting the Capital Campaign?

Did you want your gift to be used instead to support an Executive MBA Education and Conference Center?

Date: Jan 22, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Duped?
"Did you “Buy A Brick for Books” for the new library at Gulf Park when it opened as a way of supporting the Capital Campaign? Did you want your gift to be used instead to support an Executive MBA Education and Conference Center?"

ME!

Date: Jan 22, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Duped?
"Did you “Buy A Brick for Books” for the new library at Gulf Park when it opened as a way of supporting the Capital Campaign? Did you want your gift to be used instead to support an Executive MBA Education and Conference Center?"

Yes.

No.

Date: Jan 28, 2005

Is this the closure on the three big issues that opened this thread?

The Nonexistent Executive MBA Program

There were super secret plans to launch an Executive MBA program unbeknownst to the business school. Once challenged about it, Grimes and Malone back off saying there were no such plans and of course if such plans were to be considered in the future they would need to be passed through the department (didn't he mean college?) and the appropriate university councils. Shelby in his increasingly inept way, however, announces to the PUC that the the library renovation is not intended for the sole use of the Executive MBA program (oops, that was a slip up!) Word is circulating that there is widespread financial evidence pointing to the stunning lack of veracity in this situation.

Freedom of Speech

The brave faculty members who brought these issues out in the open get formally reprimanded and silenced in writing by Grimes (acting as whose mouthpiece?) only to find out that once again there is an actionable offense. Can't they remember from administrative crisis to administrative crisis that there is a university attorney whose job it is to advise them against stupid decisions? He can't be helpful if they don't consult him. So, the letters get retracted. No harm, no foul?

The Library Renovation

The decision hasn't been finalized yet (yeah, right) but it will be after the end of the semester when all the "lazy" faculty members leave for the summer and once again controversy dies down.