What still needs publicizing? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 10, 2005

What still needs publicizing?

Date: Jan 10, 2005

robert--i begin with the question of who is the audience? who are we trying to persuade? i don't think we need to persuade each other, so i work from the assumption that it's "john and june q public." let me address some of the potential stories and where i think they will go.

--accreditation. this story got their attention. now, and i think the HA editorial reflected this, john and june q public feel that it time to get USM reaccredited. get on with what needs to be done.

--economic development. too much of the story, as you develop it, depends on faculty credentialling. this is a topic the general public doesn't understand. at a more general level, what can be bad about economic development programs? john and june q public see economic development programs as a good thing. watered down courses? heavy advising loads? they don't know enough to be able to make such judgments. as to advising loads, look at what goes on in the higher education doctoral program. people talk about serving on 20+ dissertations.

--financial crackup. i am personally not convinced this is an issue. on this board over the past year, people have said "follow the $" and those stories went nowhere. as i said in a previous thread, what about the revenue generated by the tuition increase? what about outsourcing the bookstore and foodservice? anyway, john and june q public don't have a sense of university funding.

--computer use policy. this is one that "won't hunt" with some of the general public. i talked to a neighbor of mine and she said that her husband, who works for a bank, is bluntly told that they should neither receive nor send private e-mail. his e-mail is monitored.

although i agree with the initial premise of your post, i still go back to the issue of audience. who would we be trying to influence?

Date: Jan 10, 2005

The awful treatment of the Coast faculty and students. Fuel between Hburg and the Coast continues to rise. Some of it on USM's dime - for faculty's driving, some of it is on our own, and students have no money. Of course this one has to do with Dana too but maybe it's happening in other programs too.

Date: Jan 10, 2005

Robert:

Depending on when you sent the letters -- it sometimes takes a while for a letter to get in and especially if there has been a space of time between the subject of the letter and the events. It may still be that the HA will print them. The Clarion does hang on to letters for a period of time if they perceive that an event might heat back up. So I'd not write them off ( so to speak) just yet.

It occured to me as I was reading your comments here that you have provided us a very good outside voice that holds a kind of mirror up and allows us to see our events through an outsider's eyes. That actually can help to objectify these things a bit and isolate them to some degree from the emotional turmoil that often complicates our ability to see these landmarks with clarity.

I have been thinking quite a lot since yesterday's exchange on another thread ("what can students do?") about the "silence" of chairs and directors. What I was caught most by is the reminder that only ten months ago two of our distingiushed fellow faculty were publically humiliated, dragged into the public eye like criminals (and even accused of criminal behavior) - and then essentially driven from campus. Both of them (and later Noel -- who might as well have been driven from campus) were received with open arms by other universities who understood their value as scholars and as honorable men. Of all the events that have happened in the last two and a half years, the loss of these three men, when combined with the drain of some of the best and brightest members of our campus community -- has been the most bitter, and the most irreparable.

It is a difficult thing for us here to work with an administration that has abused so many (the Deans were only at the head of the list). Yet most of us have agreed, for the sake of the university, to try to do so while while still pledging not to forget what happened.

At some point there will need to be some kind of accounting for this -- without that the wounds can never heal. There will need to be an apology, and an admission of error. There will need to be a correction of the public record. I would say that even when a new administration comes into play -- that new administration will need to acknowlege this mistake as part of its entry fee. And those that remain that could have prevented the disaster will have to absorb some blame and ask for understanding. The IHL will need to know that it also has a job to protect faculty as well as Presidents -- and it needs to know that it utterly failed every faculty member in the state of Mississippi.

The loss of Gary and Frank is the albatross that is part of the guilty history of this administration and it cannot, in the long run be ignored. And we cannot forget -- or let our colleagues forget.

Date: Jan 10, 2005

Was it a $1.1 million gift from Jack and Patti Phillips? Maybe that paid for the economic development ads. If the gift were an insurance policy, how could it be utilized though? Aren't they both featured in some way on the new website?

Date: Jan 10, 2005

One story that has not been adequately told to the public is the debilitating impact of faculty attrition in specific departments. Programs like nursing, English, math, criminal justice, and business come to mind. I'm sure there are more. Letters from people in such programs could be an eye opener. If the IHL board, alumni and students really understood where this is heading, they would be concerned.

Date: Jan 10, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Stephen judd
"At some point there will need to be some kind of accounting for this -- without that the wounds can never heal. There will need to be an apology, and an admission of error. There will need to be a correction of the public record. I would say that even when a new administration comes into play -- that new administration will need to acknowlege this mistake as part of its entry fee. And those that remain that could have prevented the disaster will have to absorb some blame and ask for understanding. The IHL will need to know that it also has a job to protect faculty as well as Presidents -- and it needs to know that it utterly failed every faculty member in the state of Mississippi.
The loss of Gary and Frank is the albatross that is part of the guilty history of this administration and it cannot, in the long run be ignored. And we cannot forget -- or let our colleagues forget.
"

Amen, amen, amen.

We will NEVER forget.

NO QUARTER

P.S. Mr. Wonderful, there has to be something in this post that qualifies, yes?

Date: Jan 10, 2005

Although it was hashed around a lot on the "old board," I think the Noetic/Research Foundation/Mississippi Polymer Institute morass is something that could be cleared up a bit. We are talking some serious diversion of $$$ earned using public facilities by people on the public payroll into private or quasi-private accounts. Oh, I know it's all perfectly "legal" & is supposed to allow hard-working researchers to see some personal return for their work. But as implemented, it smacks of corruption.

John & Jane Q Public may not understand all the corporate shell games going on, but I betcha they can understand that their tax money is providing some folks with a subsidized business environment. Or more to the point, if Mississippi Polymer Institute had to build its research facilities or pay fair market value to lease them, how "profitable" would the operation be? (In other words, the "return" for the hard-working researchers is basically a state subsidy.) Plus, John & Jane Q probably think the idea of hiring spouses in "external" corporations is nepotism by any other name.

At least that's how I see that cr@p.

Date: Jan 10, 2005

CONTACT THE CHRONICLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION!

with ALL of this!

SERIOUSLY!

Date: Jan 11, 2005

Invictus,

Thanks for reminding us all of the Noetic/Polymer Institute stuff.

I also recall someone posting during the fall that the tax break for companies that give away intellectual property is slated for repeal, which would undermine Noetic's strategy and reduce the exaggerated valuation that the Thames machine gave to the USM Research Foundation's holdings back in the spring.

Robert Campbell

Date: Jan 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: informed observer
"CONTACT THE CHRONICLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION! with ALL of this! SERIOUSLY! "

We have and they say they are watching and observing what happens.

Date: Jan 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"I also recall someone posting during the fall that the tax break for companies that give away intellectual property is slated for repeal, which would undermine Noetic's strategy and reduce the exaggerated valuation that the Thames machine gave to the USM Research Foundation's holdings back in the spring.
"

Does anybody know the status of this particular tax break? It doesn't sound like the sort of thing the Bush Administration would want to repeal, to be honest -- a fat corporate loophole giveaway thing.

Date: Jan 11, 2005

Another issue worth pursuing is the "transformation" of the USM Golf Course to another "industrial park." This was done with no prior cost-benefit analysis, with no input from faculty/staff/students, and with a lot of Lisa Mader fanfare about how it would "economically benefit" the university. After all that, has there been a SINGLE tenant proposed for this 'high-tech incubator?'

Date: Jan 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"robert--economic development. too much of the story, as you develop it, depends on faculty credentialling. this is a topic the general public doesn't understand. at a more general level, what can be bad about economic development programs? john and june q public see economic development programs as a good thing. watered down courses? heavy advising loads? they don't know enough to be able to make such judgments. as to advising loads, look at what goes on in the higher education doctoral program. people talk about serving on 20+ dissertations. ...

--computer use policy. this is one that "won't hunt" with some of the general public. i talked to a neighbor of mine and she said that her husband, who works for a bank, is bluntly told that they should neither receive nor send private e-mail. his e-mail is monitored. although i agree with the initial premise of your post, i still go back to the issue of audience. who would we be trying to influence?"

scm,

I wouldn't be so pessimistic.

With the Economic Development program, maybe some emphasis needs to be put on how the program generates administrative or (pseudo)faculty jobs at USM itself, and little else. The way several recent graduates have made a U turn back to USM is significant. Angie Dvorak's career path since she got to Mississipi is significant. So is the apparently empty industrial park (which Ken Malone was supposed to fill... under Thames any administrator who is charged with "economic development" functions is assumed to be able to teach the subject).

As for 20+ dissertations per adviser... any program that allows those kinds of loads is seeking to maximize revenue while minimizing quality. At Clemson a couple of Ed graduate programs that were unusually lucrative (precisely because they carried so many students per faculty member) were recently ordered to limit enrollment--in fact, to require GRE scores for the first time--because continuing to operate as they had done would hurt our academic reputation, and make serious research productivity in those fields really difficult.

On the computer use policy, I grant you'll get a division of opinion amongst the public, but many won't like it, especially since the Thames regime reserves the right to read students' email, too. These days banks are expected to spy on their customers' transactions and report nearly everything that happens with their customers' accounts to the Feds, so I'm not surprised that their employees' email is routinely read by managers.

Robert Campbell

PS. I was wrong about the Greenville News never making a FOIA request at Clemson University. Recently a reporter obtained a secret document containing plans to sell university land (plans that would, in fact, have been in violation of the Federal law under which that land was obtained) after the administration refused to allow a Faculty Senate committee to see the report. Still, the level of activity has not been remotely comparable to the Hattiesburg American's.

Date: Jan 11, 2005

robert--i'll go back to my original question--who's the audience? that is critical on these issues. i'm not pessimistic--i think i'm more of a realist. some of these stories / issues play better on this message board than in other venues.

--economic development. your idea of the story is correct, but doesn't mean (and i say this respectfully) "a hill of beans" to the general public. the career paths of particular people is weak--john and june q public see that as good--"comin' home" to hattiesburg. a sign of how good USM is is wanting to come home again. (as an aside, in my neighborhood i am surrounded by business people who married their hs sweetheart at HHS 40 years ago--they don't see coming to hattiesburg as a big deal. some want their daughters to be homecoming queen here.) coming home to the "burg' is an end goal.

--higher ed programs. they're not "cash cows." they constantly want all sorts of ways to get tuition waivers and other deals to cut the tuition students pay. the rationale--they're only teachers. in some cases 20+ dissertations is a very conservative number.

i'm a realist as i said above. i never believed that writing letters to your congressman did much unless you had a lot of money. for my money accreditation is the issue that gets people worked up. Hattiesburg High, for example, is accredited by SACS. people can relate to that, and that has and will get the IHL worked up.

that's my two cents worth--and as the professional wrestler Jerry "The King" Lawler said, at least i'm not overcharging.

Date: Jan 14, 2005

What about this issue? Integrity. It's simple, easy to understand, relevant, and appropriate for multiple audiences.

Excerpted from SACS Principles of Accreditation:

Overview, page 4:

"The first task of the Commission when considering accreditation status is to determine the institution's integrity and its commitment to quality improvement."

Integrity, page 5:

"The Commission on Colleges expects integrity to govern the operation of institutions. Therefore, evidence of intentionally withholding information, deliberately providing inaccurate information to the public, or failing to provide timely and accurate information to the Commission will be seen as a lack of full commitment to integrity an may result in a loss of membership in the Commission on Colleges."

Has this administration provided any examples of violating the SACS Integrity policy? If so, then it seems like a message that ought to go to SACS, the IHL, and the media.

Date: Jan 17, 2005

kick

Date: Jan 19, 2005

The subtleties of the cost of an ad in The Economist being equivalent to the amount that would cover all cancelled faculty sabbaticals may be lost on the public. The $300,000+ cost to renovate the Gulf Park Library for an unapproved program when that money might be better spent on books may not be.

Date: Jan 22, 2005

As I was searching for jobs in the Hattiesburg area I came across a quite interesting post. Notice that FGH felt the need to include the word ACCREDITED!!!!! Now if I recall correctly, USM'S Masters of Library Science can be obtained entirely online. WOW!!! If this doesn't grab the students attention what will? What a sad day for a USM grad!!

DESCRIPTION

MEDICAL LIBRARIAN
* Competitive salary
* Excellent benefit package which includes paid time off
(200 hours your first year)
Forrest General Hospital, a 537-bed Level II Trauma Center in South Mississippi, is seeking to fill a position for a full-time Medical Librarian. Requirements include Master of Library Science from an accredited university or Masters degree in a complementary health-related field preferred, experience in organizing and administering electronic information delivery systems, experience in library environment and certificate with the Academy of Health Information Professionals preferred. Fax resume' to (601) 288-1201, e-mail to [Click here for email], or apply in person at the Human Resources Department.

Forrest General Hospital an equal opportunity employer.

Source - Hattiesburg American - Hattiesburg, MS

Date: Jan 22, 2005

This probably refers to the accreditation of library schools by the American Library Association (ALA). Librarians in public schools can get non-accred. degrees, while usually those in academia or public libraries (?) need to have gone to an ALA-accredited school.
The hospital probably just assumes the whole school is accredited!!!

Date: Jan 22, 2005

Did the SLIS ever clear up its accreditation problems? See below.

Mississippi Libraries, vol. 67, no. 2 (Summer 2003)

News From SLIS

By Dr. Jay Norton, Director School of Library and Information Science Jay.Norton@usm.edu http://www-dept.usm.edu/~slis

The School of Library and Information Science at the University of Southern Mississippi has received conditional continuing accreditation by the ALA Committee on Accreditation. SLIS has already begun to address two of the Committee’s major concerns: lack of evidence of SLIS interactions with constituencies, and insufficient fiscal resources. We have not lost, nor will we lose, our accreditation. We ask all library professionals, employers, and interested parties to assist us in establishing evidence of our interactions. We will invite you to participate in surveys, focus groups, and Web-based discussions, and to be active on a list server we are constructing.

As for improving fiscal resources, USM President Dr. Shelby Thames has assured the school of his support. SLIS has been allowed to make fee changes that will improve our fiscal situation and we have recently hired two new faculty, Dr. Teresa S. Welsh and Dr. Catharine A. Bomhold.

Source: http://www.misslib.org/publications/ml/sum03/sum03.pdf

Date: Jan 23, 2005

To the top!

Date: Jan 23, 2005

Papers and friends this is the story to publicize:

UNder SFT students have suffered the most and they continue to suffer: for the past two years all the issues boil down to one thing: STUDENTS ARE WORSE OFF AT USM TODAY THAN THEY WERE TWO YEARS AGO. That's the story.

Proof:

1) 227 tenured/tenure track faculty left in the past two years under and due to SFT. No matter how many may have been hired in the past two years, nothing replaces that loss of talent.

2) FOr most majors it is now impossible to graduate in four years. Why? Becuase 227 faculty left!! Classes that are required are not taught regularly, and too many students exist via number of current faculty.

3) Library can no longer buy resources for students: books, articles, etc.

4) ALmost no student with transfer credits in the past two years has had the credits transferred correctly. Degree and transcripts are constantly screwed up. Much time and expense wasted. Why? enourmos staff lossses in the past two years is why.

5) Almost no student with financial aid has had that aid processed correctly in the past two years. Take a survey. See how widespread the problem is. Why? Because of enormous staff losses.

6) tuition has gone up AND SO HAVE FEES Which are, the fees, directly under SFT's control.

7) Of the over 700 schools that SACS oversees ONLY seven in 2005 are on probation with good cause. That is one percent. Feel good to be a student in that one percent of schools?

8) US NEWS and WORLD REPORT now ranks USM as the worst of the worst, the lowest number in the lowest tier. This is a brand new phenomenon. Hence, the degree now is demonstrably worth less, valued less, and considered less meaningful than it was two years ago.

This is jsut the tip of the ice berg of what students now endure and have to deal with and all of it is new to the past two years. Publicize that if you dare. Try to make all that look sunny and bright.

Date: Jan 23, 2005

Those in a position to document 2, 4, and 5 on the "publicize this" list can make a big impact

Particularly since a lot of USM undergraduates transfer in from other institutions, so screwing up on their transfer credits is going to hurt them

Robert Campbell

Date: Jan 23, 2005

my only problem with some of the claims made by publicize this is that they are very vague. the phrases "for most" and "almost no one" bother me. how many is most? how many is "almost no one?" what evidence would prove or disprove these claims? here's the reason i say this. take #2--how long it takes people to graduate. for years (10 at least) faculty have talked about students on the "5-year" plan. even nationally, the number of students graduating in 4 years has been declining. at USM why? maybe a shortage of classes. maybe students working more and more to pay for increasing tuition. (50% of graduating seniors at USM at working 20-40 hours per week!)

#5--financial aid. it's a tough area. students have complained about it for years. (well more than 2 or 3). several years ago a student was assaulted by a financial aid person. charges were filed.

I'm not saying things haven't worse, but from my "geezerly" perspective, some of these have always been a problem at USM.

Date: Jan 23, 2005

My daughter, who graduated from USM in 2000, recently had a credit check run for some type of loan and was told that she still owed USM a rather large sum of money!! Did she ever receive correspondence about it? No. No attempt was made to reach her. It took her truthfully, in total, about 3 hours on long distance with USM to get this issue resolved. Bottom line? She didn't owe it, but their mistake caused her enough grief to make her look at her degree a bit differently.

Date: Jan 23, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"my only problem with some of the claims made by publicize this is that they are very vague. the phrases "for most" and "almost no one" bother me. how many is most? how many is "almost no one?" what evidence would prove or disprove these claims? here's the reason i say this. take #2--how long it takes people to graduate. for years (10 at least) faculty have talked about students on the "5-year" plan. even nationally, the number of students graduating in 4 years has been declining. at USM why? maybe a shortage of classes. maybe students working more and more to pay for increasing tuition. (50% of graduating seniors at USM at working 20-40 hours per week!)

#5--financial aid. it's a tough area. students have complained about it for years. (well more than 2 or 3). several years ago a student was assaulted by a financial aid person. charges were filed.

I'm not saying things haven't worse, but from my "geezerly" perspective, some of these have always been a problem at USM. "

NOTHING IS vague about real solid numbers. Do a survey. What percentage of students on financial aid in the past two years have had problems with processing. So what if this is always the case. The fact is under SFT we can easily document todays actual reality. Vague is our memory of yesterday. Solid fact is what we can document with real numbers NOW. Same goes for transfer credits. I dont give a rats donkey ass about what the situtation with transfer credit processsing was three years ago what is it NOW. What has it been under SFT. IN short, what is the real facts of student life under SFT about? Again to reiterate, no books for library, increase in fees, classes unavailable in required subjects (another easily documented fact) and massive problems in financial aid and transfer credit processing. What was it like before WHO CARES? The poiint is what is going on now. Add what is going on now to a drop in tier ranking in US snooze, and the fine company of 1 percent of schools and you get today's facts not yesterdays it was always thus b.s.

Date: Jan 23, 2005

There's no harm in conducting a survey and asking students what kinds of experiences they have had with transfer credits, financial aid, etc.

I'll bet it hasn't been done under the Thames regime.

Robert Campbell

PS. It might be worth noting that the Provost at Clemson has actually pushed for a reduction of all undergraduate degree programs to 120 hours so they really will be four-year programs for most students. She didn't get what she wanted from Engineering (which continues to run five-year programs while pretending they take just four) but the rest of the university will see 120-hour BA and BS programs starting in Fall 2005.

Date: Jan 23, 2005

publicize this--sorry. but you made the attributions to thames. as i've said on other threads, the more things change at USM, the more they stay the same. there's nothing new. the university, for example, knows the average time to degree completion. i know at least students (including one of my own) who will graduate this may in 4 years, without summer school. why conduct a survey--your claims are so vague, you won't accept any numbers that don't support your conclusions. it'd be a waste of time.

Date: Jan 24, 2005

So, do we know who will pick up on some of the stories Kevin was following?