What can students do? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 8, 2005

What can students do?

Date: Jan 8, 2005

PO'd,

I'd say that persistence pays. Since SACS put USM on probation, Shelby Thames' credibility with the media has dropped sharply. WLOX may be more inclined to listen this time around.

Robert Campbell

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: PO'd
"I'd like some ideas to pass on to my fellow classmates. What can we do to help end this mess? Who should we talk to? Any ideas would be appreciated!!!! Down here on the coast last semester we got WLOX to look into Dana's little plot to cancel GP classes for EDU majors, but in the end they reported the line of BS that she gave them "the instructors did not know what day class started" !!!!!!! Really? every single one of them???? In other words we have trouble getting anyone to believe us."

The Hattiesburg American is doing a great job of asking questions and digging for the facts. So even if you are on the coast, I would still communicate with the H.A. The Sun Herald will have to come around as they get left behind on all of these issues from the coast.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: PO'd
"I'd like some ideas to pass on to my fellow classmates. What can we do to help end this mess? Who should we talk to? Any ideas would be appreciated!!!!
Down here on the coast last semester we got WLOX to look into Dana's little plot to cancel GP classes for EDU majors, but in the end they reported the line of BS that she gave them "the instructors did not know what day class started" !!!!!!! Really? every single one of them????
In other words we have trouble getting anyone to believe us."

One student to another: Maintain your integrity and insist that those who have influence over your education do the same. Do it loudly. Do it proudly. Speak up every chance you get. Ask the tough questions. Keep asking them until you get the answers you deserve. Students have a good deal of influence...we are the "customers," after all.

How do I know this works? Look at the leadership among our faculty. Choose your heroes wisely. DT may have won one battle. You aren't in this for the short run. Keep your courage and your wits about you. As one hero of mine once said to me, "Be as wise as a serpent and as guileless as a lamb."

By asking the question you posed on this thread, you've already shown yourself to be a thinking person. The rarity of those is remarkable. As you are in a small class of people (the thinkers), you will no doubt find the answers. Keep seeking.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
" we are the "customers," after all."

To think that I used to like you.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Pet Peeve
" To think that I used to like you. "

Notice he put it in quotes. David knows better, but "the customer is always right" is useful in some situations.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" Notice he put it in quotes. David knows better, but "the customer is always right" is useful in some situations. "

I think this comes under the adage of "holding them up to their own standards." I don;t have to agree with their standards to draw attention to the fact that they aren't living by them. Reporter is right --

David -- it is good to see your contributions. Especially now.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"
I think this comes under the adage of "holding them up to their own standards." I don;t have to agree with their standards to draw attention to the fact that they aren't living by them. Reporter is right --
David -- it is good to see your contributions. Especially now. "

Thanks, Stephen. You, among others, are the faculty leadership of which I spoke. Yes, I put "customers" in quotes -- often it is useful to debate the opponent on their own terms.

Pet Peeve, I still like you. I think you probably have a clearer idea now that several have clarified my intent.

Thanks for the kind words, Stephen. It is good to know you are still fighting, too.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
" Thanks, Stephen. You, among others, are the faculty leadership of which I spoke. Yes, I put "customers" in quotes -- often it is useful to debate the opponent on their own terms. Pet Peeve, I still like you. I think you probably have a clearer idea now that several have clarified my intent. Thanks for the kind words, Stephen. It is good to know you are still fighting, too."

Regardless of the merit of your collective responses, I think I was misinterpretated!

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Pet Peeve
"Regardless of the merit of your collective responses, I think I was misinterpretated!"

No preposition at the end of "misinterpretated"?

Date: Jan 8, 2005

If I were an undergraduate student at USM, I would feel totally abandoned. Students should expect - demand - to have an effective mechanism of advocacy. The faculty has tried very hard, but their efforts have encountered deaf ears. It is virtually powerless. Faculty representatives such as the Faculty Senate and the AAUP have also tried very hard, but they too have encountered deaf ears.Their advocacy value has also been as neutered. What a deplorable situation. But even more deplorable is the pitiful manner with which middle-management seems to reacting. With some notable exceptions, it appears that those who should be speaking out or otherwise taking appropriate action are simply siting on their collective a**es with a band aid covering their mouths. Where are the department chairs in all of this? The deans? The provost? Are they not available as advocates for the students? If not, then how about the office of the Vice President for Student Affairs? Is that not an appropriate student advocacy resource? Have the students been abandoned also? It appears that there is no effective mechanism for advoacy between the students (or the faculty) and the IHL. Faculty members have left at an unprecendated rate, but no visible change has occurred at the IHL level. Can nobody speak up effectively for the students who are the ones which will ultimately suffer? Students are asking what they can do. Will an exodus of students be the wakeup call? I would imagine that a student exodus to the University of South Alabama, for instance, would be eye opening for the IHL. Is that the only recourse available to our students? That's not a feasible route for many of them. The faculty and their representatives have tried. Dear ears. Chairs, deans, members of the upper administration - WHAT SAY YE?

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by: Town Crier
"...The faculty has tried very hard, but their efforts have encountered deaf ears. It is virtually powerless.

Where are the department chairs in all of this? The deans? Chairs, - WHAT SAY YE? "

You say the faculty feel abandoned, and that the chairs and deans should ride to the rescue? You think that they have some power in all this? Boy, do I have a bridge to sell you--nice view of the East River too.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Maggie's Farm
"You say the faculty feel abandoned, and that the chairs and deans should ride to the rescue? You think that they have some power in all this? Boy, do I have a bridge to sell you--nice view of the East River too. "

May I interpret for you? Yes, Miss Maggie, Town Crier did say that the faculty feels abandoned. Ask them. Perhaps you have never heard the names Gary Stringer and Frank Glamser. No, Miss Maggie, Town Crier didn't say the chairs and deans have power. What was said was something about sitting on collective a**es with band aids on mouths. Maybe they should adopt a different strategy. What they're doing now is not working.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Maggie's Farm
"You say the faculty feel abandoned, and that the chairs and deans should ride to the rescue? You think that they have some power in all this? Boy, do I have a bridge to sell you--nice view of the East River too. "

Everyone has the power to speak up.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Maggie's Farm
"You say the faculty feel abandoned, and that the chairs and deans should ride to the rescue? You think that they have some power in all this? Boy, do I have a bridge to sell you--nice view of the East River too. "

I'd bet my tenure letter that Maggie's Farm is located somewhere in the middle of the silent administrative plains of NitChampburg.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

Leave, get the heck outta Dodge, scadaddle...this is what any sane faculty would do. The writing is on the wall, USM is a shadow of itself.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Town Crier
" Students are asking what they can do. Will an exodus of students be the wakeup call? I would imagine that a student exodus to the University of South Alabama, for instance, would be eye opening for the IHL. Is that the only recourse available to our students? That's not a feasible route for many of them. The faculty and their representatives have tried. Dear ears. Chairs, deans, members of the upper administration - WHAT SAY YE? "

One thousand students transferring out would leave a four million dollar revenue hole. That might get some attention.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

Some faculty will leave. Some will stay. With no offense to either group, this particular thread is about what students can do. So, let us return to the topic, if you please.

February 1, 1960 -- almost exactly 45 years ago -- four black students from NC A&M University, the youngest of them only 17 at the time, sat down at the Woolworth's lunch counter in Greensboro, NC and simply asked to be served. This sparked protests across North Carolina and 9 days later, the movement crossed out of the state to Hampton Virginia. Six months later, 60,000 students across America had staged sit-ins. When interviewed nearly 40 years later, the youngest of the four, asked whether he was afraid for his life said, "Life simply wasn't worth living the way things were." Today, that lunch counter sits in the National Museum of American History and the legacy of those four gentlemen lives on.

Never underestimate the power of students to stand up for themselves. If faculty, or middle-management, or anyone else wants to see real action happen -- let them speak out to motivate the students to rise up and demand satisfaction, as they have been doing. As Curmudgeon rightly said, "Anyone has the power to speak out."

Date: Jan 8, 2005

What should you do? Organize, protest, demand answers. I have child in undergraduate school at another university but I can assure you, as a parent, I'd be mad as hell if my child was enduring this. Parents - Students - get involved. You've got a great faculty there at USM. They can only do so much and the administration (chairs, newly replaced deans) can't do much but kiss a$$ since they'll be gone if they so much as try to be ethical. What they have done to the English Department personally pains me, how they are playing with the MS taxpayers money and students' tuition etc. is sickening. The answer is to take it to the higher powers. Organize - address it to Jackson. Enough is enough. Godspeed.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

Sorry to have misquoted Curmudgeon: "Everyone has the power to speak up." I hope I captured the sentiment if not the words accurately.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

David, you have the compacity to organize. It's right and worthy, you are so right, it's time for the students to take back their school.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Maggie's Farm
".... the chairs and deans should ride to the rescue? You think that they have some power in all this?"

I'm not so much concerned with how much power the deans and chairs might or might not have. With their apparent muted inactivity we may never have the answer to that question. But the matter of how much guts they have demonstrated is . . . well, that's a story for another day.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
"Some faculty will leave. Some will stay. With no offense to either group, this particular thread is about what students can do. So, let us return to the topic, if you please."

David - this thread is on topic. The lack of advocacy available to students is very important.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

This group of deans was put in place by the Man himself. What was it you thought they should do?? They're doing what they were hired to do. (With apologies to the new dean of health, who may not yet be in a position to do anything.)
As for chairs, they don't have a lot of power either.

PARENTS have power. STUDENTS have power. Period.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"David, you have the compacity to organize. It's right and worthy, you are so right, it's time for the students to take back their school."

Yes, Emma, I have the capacity. And, I'm willing not only to support but to help. However, I don't think I'm the right one to spark the students. If students are to make an organized effort to see things changed, that effort is most effective if led by traditionally-aged undergrads. Walt Cain has been so obviously in the pocket of the administration that I'm not all that hopeful that SGA will be the ones to lead. Jonathan Krebs, on the other hand, is bright, articulate and held in regard by many of the students. He, or someone like him, would be the one to be the face of such a movement. My offer to help stands for whomever steps up.

As for the thread being 'on topic,' I agree that advocacy for the students is important, but the topic is what THE STUDENTS CAN DO for themselves. (I apologize for the caps, but this thing won't let you bold and italicize when you are quoting).

Date: Jan 8, 2005

Students - do not be passive. As a faculty member at a higher Tier -- I have to do the service, research etc. stuff, but my number one concern is always my students and the education that I am providing them. They fuel my research and my service. It all falls together. SFT and Co. have basically taken a baseball bat and aimed it straight into the knees of the faculty. Protect them if you believe in them. I wish I could truly explain how much I believe in them!! Many of us out of the USM bubble now dream about returning. Many of us would if he was history.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Curmudgeon
" Everyone has the power to speak up."

Following World War II, the populace of France and other occupied countries remembered quite well who did and did not speak up. They could sometimes identify the collaborators, the silent, and the courageous, and with amazing accuracy. I wonder if Exit 65 will contain a chapter devoted to that aspect of this era at USM. It would make interesting reading.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Home on the Range
"I'd bet my tenure letter that Maggie's Farm is located somewhere in the middle of the silent administrative plains of NitChampburg."

And you would win that bet. Chairs and deans have two options. Say their piece as forcefully and civily as possible behind closed doors while at the same time attempting to protect faculty and programs in this climate (and get labeled the silent and wussy minority by boardees), or kick the President in the nuts publically and take retirement (out the door or back to the ranks). Great choice. Ask Steve Oshrin. Do you really think he will replaced by a better chair? If so, I have an even better bridge to sell you. And if you think council of chair meetings or meetings between deans are celebrations of the current regime, there is some swamp land in Georgia that I can let you have cheap. And if think that all faculty who take on admin tasks relish coming to work in this environment... Oh, I forget, it's that big admin stipend and hunger for power that keeps us all going. Yee hah.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

It's the stuck pig that squeals.

Date: Jan 8, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Maggie's Farm
"(out the door or back to the ranks). Great choice."

Nothing wrong with going back to the ranks. Any good administrator never really left the ranks in the first place. I, personally, would rather be part of the ranks and live with my convictions than further up the pecking order and not be able to sleep at nights. I seriously doubt that you'll be able to convince many on this board that silence best. Best for keeping an administration position, maybe, but not very good for the conscience.