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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> memo from Grimes
Post Info TOPIC: memo from Grimes
Amy Young

Date:
memo from Grimes
Permalink Closed

I was forwarded this email from J. Grimes. I truncated his personal contact information (cell phone, phone, etc) after his closure.
Amy Young

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. D. Jay Grimes [mailto:jay.grimes@usm.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:14 PM
To: Dr. Elliott Pood; Dr. Harold Doty; Dr. Pete Fos; Dr. Rex Gandy; Dr. Willie Pierce; 'Adel Ali'; 'Allan McBride'; 'Alvin Williams'; 'Ann Blackwell'; 'Charles Bolton'; 'Charles Elliott'; 'Charles Tardy'; 'Chris Winstead'; 'Clifton Dixon'; 'Cyndi Gaudet'; 'Dana Thames'; 'David Davies'; 'David Holley'; 'David Wheeler'; 'Denise von Herrmann'; 'Desmond Fletcher'; 'Edward Mann'; 'Frank Moore'; 'Gail Russell'; 'James Evans'; 'James Flanagan'; 'James McGuire'; 'Jane Hudson'; 'Jeffrey Lotz'; 'Jennifer Torres'; 'Kara Craig'; 'Katherine Nugent'; 'Kathy Yadrick'; 'Ken Malone'; 'Kevin Dougherty'; 'Lou Marciani'; 'Mark Klinedinst'; 'Melanie Norton'; 'Michael Forster'; 'Robert Bateman'; 'Robert Lochhead'; 'Roderick Posey'; 'Shelton Houston'; 'Stacy Reischman'; 'Stan Kuczaj'; 'Stan Norris'; 'Stephen Oshrin'; 'Steven Lohrenz'; 'Susan Ross'; 'Thomas Payne'; 'Wallace Pye'; 'Wanda Maulding'
Subject: GC Registration



Colleagues:

The Department of Customer Services on our Gulf Park campus has been overriding class limits. This is a necessary step in order to determine how best to serve our students. It is not their intent or desire to usurp academic authority and discretion regarding class size and limits. We are very sensitive to class size restrictions with regard to writing-intensive courses, laboratories, and other similar situations. Rather, the objective of Customer Services is to accommodate students while helping the University grow and I support this strategy. We prefer to come up with viable options beyond turning our students away; turning away students should never be an option at Southern Miss.

Thank you for your patience and understanding during this busy registration week.

Jay Grimes

D. Jay Grimes, Ph.D.

Provost

The University of Southern Mississippi




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Seen It All

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"Customer services"? Aaaaarggghh.

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Bean Counter

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USM is just a numbers game at this point.  SFT's main goal is growth and size.  This is proof.  USMGC is just a pilot project now, and Phoenix will be the outcome of that project.  The prof whose classroom was invaded by Malone and his goon is being vindicated on a daily basis.

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Marvin

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Grimes to Kenbot:  "I'm your puppet!"

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Size does count

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quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
"turning away students should never be an option at Southern Miss."
Very important question: does this apply to graduate classes also?

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Nostradamus

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Future Memo from Grimes (or Thames or Malone)...


Dear USM Faculty:


I have instructed the Registrar to begin a series of "grade improvements" in order to boost retention rates and enrollment at the institution.  The Registrar's office will be, using a lottery system, changing grades of F and D given during the Spring and Fall semesters of 2004 to C in order to improve the academic standing of those students fortunate enough to have their student numbers selected in the lottery.  This system is the most fair way to go about improving our retention numbers.


In no way are we attempting to usurp your authority as instructors of record to test and evaluate the performance of your students.  This is being done for the good of the institution.  Thank you for your time.


Very truly yours,


Jay Grimes, Provost


 



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Tiny Tim

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God bless you each and every one. You really don't want to get off of SACS probation, do you?

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Motto Man

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quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
"turning away students should never be an option at Southern Miss."
USM: where you don't turn your back on nobody. But you'd be well advised to keep looking over your shoulder.

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LVN

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This is news? Both of my Fall sections were over-enrolled, as were many others in my department. Wasn't aware we had any say-so in the matter.

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Enrollerball

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"This is news? Both of my Fall sections were over-enrolled, as were many others in my department. Wasn't aware we had any say-so in the matter."
Normally the department sets the enrollment limits - either the department chair or that person's designate.

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The Shadow

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Enrollerball
"Normally the department sets the enrollment limits - either the department chair or that person's designate."


Yes, the initial limits are set by the department based on a number of variables. Subsequent exceptions to that number are usually made on a case by case basis by the faculty member who is familiar with the physical characteristics of the room and any special considerations like equipment, supplies, and transportation.

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Newgirl

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In my department the chair assigns the cutoff number per classroom.  It is usually 3 to 5 more than the number of seats.  That way when students drop we still have a full class.  Too bad that students have to stand for the first few weeks before people start dropping.   

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Enrollerball

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You department chairs out there who read this message board: Is anyone going to speak up about this new class enrollment policy?

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LVN

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I had a couple of cases where I'm pretty sure an advisor overrode the class limit, at least according to the students. Our limit was 27, and I know of at least one other person who had 31 enrolled. I only admitted one on my own.
In writing courses every extra student equals a lot of extra work. The point is, it is not "good customer service" to give an instructor too many students. It hurts everybody.

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Watchin' & Listen'n

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quote:
It is not their intent or desire to usurp academic authority and discretion regarding class size and limits.

"


Not usurping academic authority, my derriere.

Class size is often an important decision made made by an instructor based on subject matter, desired class dynamics, intended assignment complexity and levels of feedback to students, planned student-student and student-instructor interaction, etc. For the business side of the institution to make such changes is a frightening development.

And, did Customer Service also order more books for these larger classes?

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Frequent Flyer

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
" it is not "good customer service" to give an instructor too many students. It hurts everybody."
Anybody who has been bumped from an oversold airplane flight at a distant city knows how inconvenient or even abusive such a practice can be. Overselling is for the good of the airline - not for the good of the "customer."

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Retired prof

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quote from the Jay Grimes Memo:

" It is not their intent or desire to usurp academic authority and discretion regarding class size and limits. "
Oh really? It certainly seems to be nothing other than that. How can he write that with a straight face? I am so glad to be able to sign as RETIRED prof.

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Customers R Us

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quote:
Originally posted by: Frequent Flyer
"Anybody who has been bumped from an oversold airplane flight at a distant city knows how inconvenient or even abusive such a practice can be. Overselling is for the good of the airline - not for the good of the "customer."
And just try to get through to a customer service representative when other customers are waiting in line. All you hear is that aboninable music blasting in your ear and a voice periodically saying "Your call is important to us." 

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Eye Roller

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quote:
Originally posted by: Enrollerball
"You department chairs out there who read this message board: Is anyone going to speak up about this new class enrollment policy?"


Is that a trick question?

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Bassackwards

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It appears from the Grimes letter that departments were informed about the new policy after the fact.

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stinky cheese man

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what's the expression--the more things change, the more they stay the same. Dean Harper did this to my department about 10-12 years ago. Changed the caps without consultation of the chair. Were told that students would drop and the enrollment wouldn't be too big by the end of the semester. Rationale--same as in Grimes memo--we don't turn students away. Took us about 2 years to get the caps reduced to what they had been.

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late

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where does this play in sacs??


it certain shows the business side of the university, but now about the academic(please no smart comments)



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Mole

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quote:
Originally posted by: Eye Roller
" Is that a trick question?"
Of course not. Such would not be the USM way.

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Invictus

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This is something new for USM?

When I taught, I often perceived that the real reason for over-packing a class section was to avoid having to pay for an overload class or hire an adjunct.

Best story related to an over-enrolled class: I walked into a science class (with lab) that had 38 students. (They had scavenged desks from surrounding rooms.) I wrote the course number on the chalkboard -- it was that long ago -- and loudly announced, "If you are supposed to be in heli-arc welding class, you are in the wrong place." Four students got up & left the room...

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Higher Calling

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Customers R Us
"And just try to get through to a customer service representative when other customers are waiting in line. All you hear is that aboninable music blasting in your ear and a voice periodically saying "Your call is important to us."  "

USM has a call center that is probably training new customer service reps right now, or at least selling doctorates to their bosses who will be able to leverage their purchases to ever greater efficiency and effectiveness.  Have faith, all will be better as soon as the "lazy professors" are gone.



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Polyoptimist

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They told me, "Cheer up! Things could be worse." So I cheered up. And sure enough: things got worse.

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Watchin' & Listen'n

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"This is something new for USM?
"


As Invictus and SCM point out, such has happened before, but at least past decisions were made in the academic chain of (ir)responsibility.

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Motto Man

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USM's new class enrollment policy - "Where no child is left behind."

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Robert Campbell

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Looks like a good story for the Hattiesburg American.


Robert Campbell



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Marvin

Date:
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Kinda cute the way it was copied back to Kenbot - why not just let Ken and the customer service organization send it out directly?


Jay, did you ever have a soul and a backbone?  What are you getting out of all of this?  It sure can't be fun for you.


"Make me do right or make me do wrong, I'm your puppet"


Occasionally, doing right would be a welcome change. 



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