Six Letters in C.L. - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Six Letters in C.L.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Let's try to reply to only one of these post. Otherwise we will miss too much.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

The letter that talked about "ganging up" was clearly the most ignorant of the six. If the writer wants to know the real meaning of "ganging up," he should have witnessed the ganging up that occurred during the attempt to fire Gary and Frank: The Boogie Woogie Man rushing at them from one corner of the ring, and Gorgeous George glaring at them a the other end.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Wrestle Royal
"The letter that talked about "ganging up" was clearly the most ignorant of the six. If the writer wants to know the real meaning of "ganging up," he should have witnessed the ganging up that occurred during the attempt to fire Gary and Frank: The Boogie Woogie Man rushing at them from one corner of the ring, and Gorgeous George glaring at them a the other end."

Indeed, the author of that letter compromises his persuasiveness a number of ways. First, he admits that he knows Dr. Thames "by reputation only, [from] his outstanding service in the field of polymer chemistry." Such removed and irrelevant knowledge hardly qualifies the author to speak to Thames's administrative abilities. Then he says that SFT's work in polymers "has led to more jobs in Mississippi than most professors could count," which is patently absurd, since all professors can count far beyond the total population of Mississippi. Such blatant hyperbole is immediately problematic, despite whatever temporary success the administration's "world class" may be having. Finally, he calls the institution not USM or even "Southern Miss," but rather "Mississippi Southern," which is an outdated moniker. Persuasion depends on a number of factors, of which perhaps the most important is for the speaker to appear well informed.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Kick. Let's keep comments on this thread.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Rhetoric rules
" Indeed, the author of that letter compromises his persuasiveness a number of ways. First, he admits that he knows Dr. Thames "by reputation only, [from] his outstanding service in the field of polymer chemistry." Such removed and irrelevant knowledge hardly qualifies the author to speak to Thames's administrative abilities. Then he says that SFT's work in polymers "has led to more jobs in Mississippi than most professors could count," which is patently absurd, since all professors can count far beyond the total population of Mississippi. Such blatant hyperbole is immediately problematic, despite whatever temporary success the administration's "world class" may be having. Finally, he calls the institution not USM or even "Southern Miss," but rather "Mississippi Southern," which is an outdated moniker. Persuasion depends on a number of factors, of which perhaps the most important is for the speaker to appear well informed. "

Perceptive analysis Rhetoric Rules. “Mississippi Southern” also indicates the age of the writer must be at least 70.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LeavingASAP

"Perceptive analysis Rhetoric Rules. “Mississippi Southern” also indicates the age of the writer must be at least 70."

Let's watch that kind of talk. We're also members of a protected group.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: EEOC
"Let's watch that kind of talk. We're also members of a protected group."

I agree...no ageism on this board! But it does point out that the writer, regardless of her/his age, is out of the touch with the current scene at USM (since MS Southern hasn't been officially used as a nickname for ages).

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Sorry, my fingers were faster than my brain. You are correct.

LeavingASAP

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LeavingASAP
"Sorry, my fingers were faster than my brain. You are correct. LeavingASAP"

I was just kidding. I was not offended. The only other time I have seen age mentioned on this board was on a posting by Invictus (I've just kidding you too, Invictus).

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: EEOC
"I was just kidding. I was not offended. The only other time I have seen age mentioned on this board was on a posting by Invictus (I've just kidding you too, Invictus). "

But those types of postings do give me a pretty good idea of how females and various other groups must feel when similar comments are made about them. Thus, your post has a redeeming virtue.

EEOC (aka older but wiser - and still working my butt off)

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: EEOC
"I was just kidding. I was not offended. The only other time I have seen age mentioned on this board was on a posting by Invictus (I've just kidding you too, Invictus). "

I didn't consider offending members of this board, but rather the person who wrote and signed the letter. They may not wish their age known or discussed and it really had nothing to do with the important issues. I'm also sorry because it was against a principle I try to live by and I just discovered how easy it is to forget that. Personally I'm not offended by age. It sure beats the alternative.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LeavingASAP
""

Keep in mind there are Ole Miss and Mississippi State alums of all ages who take great delight in referring to USM as "Mississippi Southern" as a put-down. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the IHL board members from those schools do the same thing, at least in private amongst others of their ilk.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Googler
"Keep in mind there are Ole Miss and Mississippi State alums of all ages who take great delight in referring to USM as "Mississippi Southern" as a put-down. "

Perhaps, but that isn't always true. My parents are well into their 80's, my Mom an Ole Miss grad, my Dad a USM alum. They both refer to USM as Mississippi Southern, which was the appropriate moniker when they were attending college in the late 30's-early 40's. I can assure you that neither of them consider the Mississippi Southern appellation a put-down in any way. Over the years I've met a number of my Dad's former classmates, all of whom fondly refer to USM as Mississippi Southern, or just Southern. I've also heard our neighbors in Laurel, both twenty-something and relatively recent USM grads, refer to their alma mater as Mississippi Southern. I think it's a mistake to ascribe motives to anyone using the outdated name, in the absence of additional evidence that a put-down was intended.

AE

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Rhetoric rules
"
Indeed, the author of that letter compromises his persuasiveness a number of ways.
"

Gotta wonder what he thinks that Shakespeare quote means.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Tinctoris
" Gotta wonder what he thinks that Shakespeare quote means."

Of which quote speakest thou, forsooth?

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Shakespeare's Risk Manager
"
Of which quote speakest thou, forsooth?
"

Mr Oates'

"So at this juncture a quote from the bard comes to mind: 'The lady doth protest too much, methinks.'"

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Tinctoris
" Mr Oates' "So at this juncture a quote from the bard comes to mind: 'The lady doth protest too much, methinks.'""

Nay, forsooth, t'will not serve this time and season. My honored client hath licensed me to offer to you all the foll'wing quote. 'Tis spoken far more aptly to your leaders, as ye may see

Till now you have gone on, and fill’d the time

With all licentious measure, making your wills

The scope of justice; till now myself and such

As slept within the shadow of your power

Have wander’d with our travers’d arms, and breath’d

Our sufferance vainly. Now the time is flush,

When crouching marrow, in the bearer strong,

Cries of itself, ‘No more:’ now breathless wrong

Shall sit and pant in your great chairs of ease,

And pursy insolence shall break his wind

With fear and horrid flight.

(Verily, I know not why this roguish message board doth put in so great a space betwixt thy words and ours. Perchance it be because my honored client is long dead?)

SRM

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Shakespeare's Risk Manager
" Nay, forsooth, t'will not serve this time and season. My honored client hath licensed me to offer to you all the foll'wing quote. 'Tis spoken far more aptly to your leaders, as ye may see Till now you have gone on, and fill’d the time With all licentious measure, making your wills The scope of justice; till now myself and such As slept within the shadow of your power Have wander’d with our travers’d arms, and breath’d Our sufferance vainly. Now the time is flush, When crouching marrow, in the bearer strong, Cries of itself, ‘No more:’ now breathless wrong Shall sit and pant in your great chairs of ease, And pursy insolence shall break his wind With fear and horrid flight. (Verily, I know not why this roguish message board doth put in so great a space betwixt thy words and ours. Perchance it be because my honored client is long dead?) SRM"

Damn. Is this a class board, or what?

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
"I think it's a mistake to ascribe motives to anyone using the outdated name, in the absence of additional evidence that a put-down was intended. AE"

Austin Eagle, I'm glad somebody expressed what I've felt for years (i.e., using the name Mississippi Southern is not necessarily intended as a putdown). I will take this opportuity to explain my position:

When I arrived at The University of Southern Mississippi in the early 1980's, I cashed a check at a grocery store located in the University Shopping Center. The cashier asked that I indicate my place of employment. I said "Mississippi Southern." She responded "What is that?" That was the first time I realized that the term Mississippi Southern was no longer in vogue. I was disappointed. I like that designation. Here is why:

The name "Mississippi Southern" does not convey a bi-directional flavor. The name "University of Southern Mississippi," on the other hand, does. Ole Miss is not called the "Univeristy of Northern Mississippi." Ole Miss does not view itself as serving predominately that part of Mississippi located North of Jackson. USM does not view itself as serving predominately that part of Mississippi located South of Jackson. Both schools view themselves as national in scope (at least I hope they do. If they do not, I was deceived when I was recruited here). The University of North Alabama and the University of West Florida may be marvelous institutions, but their names suggest a bi-directional flavor such as in found in the name "University of Southern Mississippi." Moreover, there is nothing particularly distinctive about having North/Northern, South/Southern, East/Eastern, or West/Western in a name. East Carolina, Western Carolina, Eastern Michigan, South Alabama - all may be great places, but their names take back seat to the names "The University of North Carolina,", "The University of Michigan", "The University of Alabama," etc. The name "University of Southern California" is an exception I suppose. The name "University of Southern Mississippi" is not an exception. It still imparts a bi-directional flavor. The name "Missisippi Southern" flows. It is smooth. It is easy to say. It is distinctive. It does not impart a bi-directional flavor. It has much greater "name recognition" than "University of Southern Mississippi." Everywhere I travel - North, South, East, or West - people I meet use the name "Mississippi Southern" as if it is a common household word. When I tell them my school is "The University of Southern Mississippi," they immediatly revert to using the name "Mississippi Southern." There was a time when I corrected those who used "Mississippi Southern," but when I told them I was at the "University of Southern Missisisppi" I sometimes heard "Where's that?" Those of us who viewed the most recent ESPN telecast of USM's football game heard the name "Mississippi Southern" used by the commentator - as if it is as natural as a patellar tendon reflex. With that said, let me add that I always use the official name: "University of Southern Mississippi." I will continue to do so. But the name "Mississippi Southern" is most definitely not a "put down." Those who use the term "Missisissippi Southern" do so with fond remembrance. If Ole Miss uses our former name in a derogatory fashion, who the h*** cares? The University of Southern Mississippi must stop allowing those "other" schools to control our behavior. We'll just call them "Ole Mess. Whoever jerked the name "Mississippi Southern" away from us stripped away part of our institutional memory, heritage, and tradition. And they sure botched up the lobotomy. Some posters on this board have suggested that The University of Southern Mississippi has very little in the way of "traditions." Traditions are not "invented." Traditions are developed over an extended period of time. Coining the term "NitChampBurg" does not create an "instant" tradition like instant mashed potatoes. As our institutional memory evaporates, so will our traditions. Some faculty members new to The University of Southern Mississippi may not know that our football team was once known as "The Yellow Jackets." It was then changed to "The Southerners." I'm not quite sure what it is now. Is it "The Eagles?" Or maybe it is "The Nasty Bunch." In any case, the next time you meet someone who uses the term "Mississippi Southern" - Smile. You know they're on your side.

University of Southern Mississippi (aka Mississippi Southern and proud of it)

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: For all the reasons you name a university
" Those who use the term "Missisissippi Southern" do so with fond remembrance. ... University of Southern Mississippi (aka Mississippi Southern and proud of it) "

Thanks for your passionate and eloquent words. You may be assured that there are many who share your sentiments. As for those ignorant few who would use "Mississippi Southern" as a pejorative, the hell with 'em.

AE

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: For all the reasons you name a university
" <snip>Some faculty members new to The University of Southern Mississippi may not know that our football team was once known as "The Yellow Jackets." It was then changed to "The Southerners." I'm not quite sure what it is now. Is it "The Eagles?" Or maybe it is "The Nasty Bunch." <snip> "

I think it's "the Golden Eagles." At least that's what all my friends who care about football tell me.

Does anyone else remember the memo that was sent out during the Fleming administration informing us to use "Southern Miss" as the official nickname of USM? I still used USM, even after that. I hate Southern Miss...it sounds like a bad beauty pagent.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
" Thanks for your passionate and eloquent words. You may be assured that there are many who share your sentiments. As for those ignorant few who would use "Mississippi Southern" as a pejorative, the hell with 'em. AE "

Birmingham Southern is a classy name. Nobody, but nobody, puts that university down. They take second seat to nobody - not to Auburn, not to University of Alabama - not to nobody.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Stars fell on Alabama
"Birmingham Southern is a classy name. Nobody, but nobody, puts that university down. They take second seat to nobody - not to Auburn, not to University of Alabama - not to nobody. "

Huh? Did someone cast aspersions on Birmingham Southern?

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Sweet Home Alabamy
"Huh? Did someone cast aspersions on Birmingham Southern? "

Not in the least. Evidently some posters believe that Ole Miss folks refer to USM by its former name Mississippi Southern a derogatory manner. My post was designed to point out that such name doesn't bother a fine school such as Birmingham Southern in the least. Perhaps my post was not concrete enough.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote: t
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" I hate Southern Miss...it sounds like a bad beauty pagent. "

Now, now, truth. You might recall that the name George Peabody College for Teachers used to take a great deal of ribbing also. But that didn't bother them. They still knew they performed their mission very, very well.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Stars fell on Alabama
"Birmingham Southern is a classy name. Nobody, but nobody, puts that university down. They take second seat to nobody - not to Auburn, not to University of Alabama - not to nobody. "

Agreed. The BSC parallel in Mississippi would be Millsaps College, which I would argue takes a second seat to nobody-- not to Ole Miss, not to Mississippi State, and certainly not to Southern Miss (aka "USM" or "Mississippi Southern" ).

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Googler
"The BSC parallel in Mississippi would be Millsaps College, which I would argue takes a second seat to nobody

Almost right, Googler, but no cigar - don't forget that li'l ole university over in Clinton.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"... Does anyone else remember the memo that was sent out during the Fleming administration informing us to use "Southern Miss" as the official nickname of USM?

I remember the memo well, but I thought it came out during this administration.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Stars fell on Alabama
"Now, now, truth. You might recall that the name George Peabody College for Teachers used to take a great deal of ribbing also. But that didn't bother them. They still knew they performed their mission very, very well. "

I don't know anything about the Peabody situation, as I'm a recent arrival on the Middle TN scene. All I know is that "Southern Miss" isn't wurl'-class by anyone's standars.