IHL starting to weaken? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Dec 21, 2004

RE: IHL starting to weaken?

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
The only obvious connection might be that Shelby Thames's sons have a dental practice in Laurel. I think Scott Thames actually lives there.

I completely forgot about his dentist children. They are apparently well educated. They must know something has gone amuk at USM. I wish they would have a father-to-son talk with their father.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Emma, Didn't it take more than 2 and a half years to get rid of Diamandopoulous, who was an outright crook? I don't recall Adelphi getting into trouble over accreditation before he was ousted, though. Robert Campbell"

We are onto something. Once again- thank you for your diligence.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

OK, I'm back but not sure what I have to add.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"Back to the Robinson/Thames connection. I have a friend who is acquainted with Robin Robinson and he (my friend) swears that she is a reasonable person who is committed to the success of USM. When Ms. Robinson aligned herself pro-Thames at her first meeting, I was surprised. Now I am wondering if Emma is not right: there are ties of which we are not aware. The only obvious connection might be that Shelby Thames's sons have a dental practice in Laurel. I think Scott Thames actually lives there. (People that have worked for him report that the acorn did not fall too far from the tree.) Anybody know more about the connections than that?"

Ram, I am onto something, I need others to verify it. They think that we're quite stupid. We're not. Help me here. The Robin Robinson ties to the Thames family are close, deep, and easily documented.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Let's not forget that RR was the lone voice who criticized the Alabama retreat boondoggle. We need swing votes. She may be one. It is not an unreasonable strategy to try and convince someone, especially when you are in the right. For those of you who think there is something underhanded going on, I honestly don't know but, I would urge you to try and win her vote with reason first.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Let's prove to Roben that we have the best interests of this university at heart. Roben, listen to those of us who have very little to gain except our own names left intact with the betterment of this Once and Future University.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Poly: we're all about winning her vote because what we believe in is right and good. We are on the same page. Our only problem is how to let her know where her true torchbearers exist.

Date: Dec 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"Ram, I am onto something, I need others to verify it. They think that we're quite stupid. We're not. Help me here. The Robin Robinson ties to the Thames family are close, deep, and easily documented."

Robin Robinson & Dana Thames-- both USM Class of 1978-- sorority sisters, perhaps?

Robin Robinson & Scott Thames-- did they date, perhaps?

Robin Robinson-- related to either of the Thames' sons wives, perhaps?

Date: Dec 21, 2004

Googler - we have now begun to dig beneath the surface, and it will be silly alliances that "out" those who are now "in"

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"The Robin Robinson ties to the Thames family are close, deep, and easily documented."

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, er, I mean in the Dome.....

Date: Dec 22, 2004

Shelby had another candidate that he was pushing for the IHL position, Bob Mixon I believe. I heard that he was "surprised" when Robin Robinson was named. Emma may be on to something that I am unaware of but I would strongly encourage trying to win over rather than alienate swing votes.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Polyonymous
"..... Emma may be on to something that I am unaware of but I would strongly encourage trying to win over rather than alienate swing votes."

I couldn't agree more. Let's take the high road here.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Polyonymous
"Shelby had another candidate that he was pushing for the IHL position, Bob Mixon I believe. I heard that he was "surprised" when Robin Robinson was named. Emma may be on to something that I am unaware of but I would strongly encourage trying to win over rather than alienate swing votes."

I'll have to acknowledge complete ignorance when it comes to Mississippi politics and IHL appointments. Is Thames politically influential, to the extent that he can successfully promote candidates for IHL board positions? If so, I wonder if he had a role in placing any present board members. Notwithstanding family ties, it comforts me to know that Robinson doesn't owe her board seat to Thames.

While attending a Christmas party last evening I corralled an acquaintance who formerly served as a regent of a major Texas state university. He said that had his board been confronted with a USM type situation and the need to oust a president, absent any criminal conduct, they would have allowed the administrator a dignified way out. That is, they'd tell him that he either needed to retire voluntarily and go out with grace, or they'd be forced to announce his termination for cause. I can't help but think this will be the course followed by the IHL if they do ultimately decide to replace Thames. This would be face-saving for the board members who've backed him, as well as for Thames. It's all about appearances ya know.

AE

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
" I'll have to acknowledge complete ignorance when it comes to Mississippi politics and IHL appointments. Is Thames politically influential, to the extent that he can successfully promote candidates for IHL board positions? If so, I wonder if he had a role in placing any present board members. Notwithstanding family ties, it comforts me to know that Robinson doesn't owe her board seat to Thames. While attending a Christmas party last evening I corralled an acquaintance who formerly served as a regent of a major Texas state university. He said that had his board been confronted with a USM type situation and the need to oust a president, absent any criminal conduct, they would have allowed the administrator a dignified way out. That is, they'd tell him that he either needed to retire voluntarily and go out with grace, or they'd be forced to announce his termination for cause. I can't help but think this will be the course followed by the IHL if they do ultimately decide to replace Thames. This would be face-saving for the board members who've backed him, as well as for Thames. It's all about appearances ya know. AE"

A.E. I don't see how they can terminate SFT and save face. It would be admitting they made a mistake in the face of faculty advice. They would have to get SFT to voluntarily step down. I can say with confidence that SFT will never resign. Even if they provide him a story of illness etc, SFT does not quit. Period. The IHL is stuck with no way out that saves face. On top of that, there is no provost to step in if SFT left. He has a sandbagged position.

Sorry, I don't like it either.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

This can only be described as "for what it's worth."

Robin Robinson instead of Bob Mixon is probably a good thing. Bob Mixon owns Courtesy Ford in Hattiesburg. It was reported on this board (or its predecessor) that when Horace Fleming first heard of Shelby Thames's selection, he responded with something to the effect of, "The car dealers have their man."

IF Fleming's statement was accurately reported AND accurate, and IF Mixon was among the "car dealers" referred to, then Mixon on the board could have really been a disaster.

That said, it's all "under the bridge" now. Robinson is on the board. Absent a "smoking gun," the only course is to take the high road. Given the terms of appointment, I'm not sure even a smoking gun would be sufficient to impeach a board member or seek recusal. I can't even identify a low road, and that's probably a good thing.

If someone knows something that they cannot disclosed on this board for fear of identifying themselves, perhaps that information could be shared with Truth or FireShelby via e-mail.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

Reporter,

On the "no Provost to step in" issue...

It's true that Thames did everything possible to cut Hudson out of the loop, and eventually drove Hudson off. Meanwhile Grimes is a nonentity. But Hudson as President wouldn't be particularly good news for USM in quieter times, let alone in an accreditation crisis.

The fact is that bad presidents often hire bad provosts to work for them. What makes Thames unusual is not that he's brought bad provosts on board, it's that he never let them manage the day-to-day academic affairs of USM.

USM needs an interim president and a new provost. The president should have no prior connection with USM. It wouldn't hurt if the provost didn't either.

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Reporter, On the "no Provost to step in" issue... It's true that Thames did everything possible to cut Hudson out of the loop, and eventually drove Hudson off. Meanwhile Grimes is a nonentity. But Hudson as President wouldn't be particularly good news for USM in quieter times, let alone in an accreditation crisis. The fact is that bad presidents often hire bad provosts to work for them. What makes Thames unusual is not that he's brought bad provosts on board, it's that he never let them manage the day-to-day academic affairs of USM. USM needs an interim president and a new provost. The president should have no prior connection with USM. It wouldn't hurt if the provost didn't either. Robert Campbell"

I agree Robert. The problem, in my opinion, is the IHL has no exit strategy that saves face for them, and especially Klumb. An interim president is the only was I see to go, but getting to that stage is the difficult part. SFT will never quit. Do you have a way out for the IHL? What could make SFT resign? Can you see the IHL terminating him and, in effect, admitting he was a mistake after they back him through all of the crises of the pass 2 years?

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Reporter
" A.E. I don't see how they can terminate SFT and save face. It would be admitting they made a mistake in the face of faculty advice. They would have to get SFT to voluntarily step down. I can say with confidence that SFT will never resign. Even if they provide him a story of illness etc, SFT does not quit. Period. The IHL is stuck with no way out that saves face. On top of that, there is no provost to step in if SFT left. He has a sandbagged position.

Yup, I agree that it's a bit late for face-saving for many board members. I think Ms. Newton and the newest appointees, those uninvolved in hiring Thames, could escape being tarnished if they take corrective action now. I know nothing of Thames' personality other than what I've read here, but it's difficult to imagine anyone choosing to go down in flames when other options are available. I guess recalcitrance is just another facet of his megalomania?

Your observation about the lack of a provost reminds me of another comment from my conversation with the former Texas regent. He said his board would never have terminated a university president until they already had a capable interim administrator ready to take the reins immediately, the minute the announcement was made. This isn't a revelation by any means, just sensible management, but might this be another reason the IHL hasn't abruptly "canned" Thames, the fact that they have no alternative administrator "on deck."

AE

Date: Dec 22, 2004

i agree with ae. if the IHL wants to oust Thames the interim has be waiting in the wings. they don't want to be accused of any additional actions that could be disruptive such as going through some lengthy search for an interim when an August SACS deadline is looming.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

scm,

It seems to me that the replacement is ready to hand. The Board can put Crofts in. They already have him monitoring the reaccreditation effort.

The tough part for them is that they will have to fire Thames--and at least by implication admit fault for hiring him in the first place.

It really comes down to this. What would the majority of the Board prefer--admitting fault or destroying USM? Their reputation certainly won't be enhanced if they opt for the latter.

And if 7 of the 8 Board members who were involved in the decision to hire Thames want to salvage some of their pride by censuring Roy Klumb, no one else is going to complain much.

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 22, 2004

robert--i agree that things have changed with the IHL. pre-accreditation problems, i posted somewhere that several people more knowledgeable than me said the board would do nothing about him. post-accreditation problems, i speculate things have changed. Shelby's political capital is gone. Crofts may be the person, since he appears to be the person to monitor the accreditation process.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"...And if 7 of the 8 Board members who were involved in the decision to hire Thames want to salvage some of their pride by censuring Roy Klumb, no one else is going to complain much. Robert Campbell"

Now that would be a great Christmas present!

Date: Dec 22, 2004

Run a search on Crofts and Montana. I think you'll find that he stuck up for academic principles and took heat for doing it.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Encouraged by what I read
"Run a search on Crofts and Montana. I think you'll find that he stuck up for academic principles and took heat for doing it. "

Encouraged, can you supply a specific link that you think appropriate?

Date: Dec 22, 2004

i think there's another reason the IHL hired Crofts. Billy McCoy (Speaker of the House) has become enamored with some Montana plan linking economic development with the university system there. Wants to see it happen in Mississippi. Who better than the former head of the Montana system to head, an least on an interim basis, the Mississippi system?!

Date: Dec 22, 2004

Reporter and Stinky Cheese Man:

I read this stuff over a month ago when his position was first announced so I would have to do another search to try and track the links down. The sense that I got was that Montana legislature was jumping on the economic development bandwagon and that it was Croft's successor, not Croft, who jumped on board with the legislators.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

A second reminder, IHL: SACS is coming! SACS is coming! Help USM before it is to late.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

What I know about the Robinson/Thames connection, I will share with Truth. But, connections can be broken, and I do know that RR is not a stupid person at all. I totally believe that she can and hopefully will see the "truth" and act upon it. Seriously, how many of us would feel superior if the IHL ousted Thames, as they should have done long ago? Answer: None of us - we would feel relieved and hopeful that change is on its way. Look into the faces of our students and know that it is those faces that count. Not the IHL's, not Thames's, and for the most part not even us.

Date: Dec 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"What I know about the Robinson/Thames connection, I will share with Truth. But, connections can be broken, and I do know that RR is not a stupid person at all. I totally believe that she can and hopefully will see the "truth" and act upon it. Seriously, how many of us would feel superior if the IHL ousted Thames, as they should have done long ago? Answer: None of us - we would feel relieved and hopeful that change is on its way. Look into the faces of our students and know that it is those faces that count. Not the IHL's, not Thames's, and for the most part not even us."

The softer side of Emma...

Well said!