SACS Probation Bailout - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Dec 30, 2004

RE: RE: RE: RE: SACS Probation Bailout

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
" Why would anyone even SUGGEST promoting from within for this position?!? It is all this business of thinking our own grads are the most qualified and therefore no need to look outside this wurl' class institution that has gotten us all but turned inside out now. Robert Campbell or Invictus or one of you who have been in academia since God was a boy correct me if I am wrong...don't most universities go OUTSIDE their own circle to hire not only faculty but top administrators? Enough with this incestuous nonsense."

Mr. Wonderful, I can't decide which part of this I like the best...Invictus in academia since God was a boy or the actual message...either way, it is my nomination when things start back up.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

SCM,

I understand the history better for your explanation and thanks. It seems to me, then, that the logical progression of the pendulum is back to "outside." I also think Robert Campbell has made some excellent points about Systemwide Boards of Regents. I am fully aware of how unlikely it is, but I can't help wondering if some 'strange bedfellow' alliances couldn't be made at some point with the northern universities (or their alumni perhaps) to put forth a constitutional amendment or whatever is required legislatively to dump this IHL notion in favor of university-level boards of trustees. If Ole Miss folks are aware that their tax dollars subsidize MSU for 18 mil more than Ole Miss would get without the hold-harmless rule (and ours is about the same), would that be some impetus for change?

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Mal
"
Mr. Wonderful, I can't decide which part of this I like the best...Invictus in academia since God was a boy or the actual message...either way, it is my nomination when things start back up.
"

Thanks, Mal. I'm honored to be nominated. But, I should clear up that I didn't say Invictus had been in academia that long, but rather I called on RC or Invictus OR "one of you who have been in academia since God was a boy." Althought, thinking about it, it occurs to me that Invictus could certainly be a candidate.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

the funding formula has never been fair. more accurately, it's not been used to fund the universities. Lucas talked about it, but begrudingly accepted it. Fleming was more open about his dislike of its application. a new funding formula was developed by the IHL this past year or so (amazingly by someone at USM) based on the TX model, that would balance things out more. whether it gets used is another thing.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"uncle tim--you give the "good hudson" spin. i give the "bad hudson" spin. hudson was every bit as treacherous as shelby. resented being passed over for thames. tried to be the faculty friend (particularly those in COAL). figured that if he could make shelby look bad enough (enrollment, angie's credentials) by leaking information and rumors, the IHL would look to him to replace shelby, since he was provost. if people would look closely at some dates of when events happened, i think they would be amazed at the timing. when one of tim's schemes didn't work, he went to the next. and you didn't respond to my note about tim not being able to work with women. look at the elimination of women from the administration."

I'm no cheerleader for Uncle Tim. Everything you say about his reciprocal treachery is absolutely true, which makes his short-lived unholy alliance with Shelboo all the more ironic. I wasn't attempting to take a position or depict Tim as lily white, only presenting his own jaundiced perspective. I made no comment on Tim's "difficulties" with women as I think it's a matter of record and thus beyond dispute, particularly amusing in light of his trophy wife's recent doctorate from USM. Hudson's misogyny wasn't the reason for his animus for Angie. His behaviour would not have been any different had she been a man. She was an interloper, a competitor for the job he coveted, and she needed to be undermined, neutered, or eliminated.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
" Thanks, Mal. I'm honored to be nominated. But, I should clear up that I didn't say Invictus had been in academia that long, but rather I called on RC or Invictus OR "one of you who have been in academia since God was a boy." Althought, thinking about it, it occurs to me that Invictus could certainly be a candidate. "

Maladroit!

Date: Dec 30, 2004

uncle tim--i agree with your observation about tim's perception of angie--she was a competitor that had to be eliminated. but the fact she was a woman made tim doubly (or triply) motivated to eliminate her. two important dates--Dec. 7 and Dec 10, 2003. some of you supersleuths need to check out a timing issue.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

Even though A.D. is a former SACS commissioner, she would never accept the task of bailing SFT out of this one. I think it is funny how some of you posters depict people for instance Chicken lips lady people gets palces by hard work. It is time for the malcontents at USM to bail out SFT so he can get an extension on his contract. On another note the wise would be very careful about how they talk about lawyers. A.D's. husband and partner are no longer at the University, damn just leave people alone. Last week you all said let Gary and Frank be happy in their new roles, well why can't you people extend the same courtesy to others??

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"uncle tim--i agree with your observation about tim's perception of angie--she was a competitor that had to be eliminated. but the fact she was a woman made tim doubly (or triply) motivated to eliminate her. two important dates--Dec. 7 and Dec 10, 2003. some of you supersleuths need to check out a timing issue. "

Or we could be thankful that we're down four and focus on #5!

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: WASP
"On another note the wise would be very careful about how they talk about lawyers. "

What the heck are you talking about? Who said anything about lawyers anyway? Is this some sort of inarticulate threat from Hanbury and Dvorak? If so, you need to be more concise so's we'll all commence trembling in our boots.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

There's protection out there. Don't rule out class action. There is an attorney or two out there that would love to take the debacle on and clean house of the slithering slime and restore USM to at least some type of academic sanity.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: WASP
"lady It is time for the malcontents at USM to bail out SFT so he can get an extension on his contract. "

I refer you to the U.S. Air thread.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

Love it, love it!!

AD was a SACS commissioner? My apologies if so - - - however, WASP is apparently warning us against slander/libel.
WASP, I'm no lawyer, but I know that the first criterion is that the statement has to be false.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

If anyone should be worried about slander and libel it is the Thames crew. They've done plenty of it and what they had to say was and continues to be false.

Just think of the implications that gnome made about Glamser and Stringer in March and April.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: WASP
"On another note the wise would be very careful about how they talk about lawyers. "

And why would that be, might I ask? To which lawyers do you refer? All of them? What will these fearsome lawyers do if people "talk about" them?

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Chicken Lips, er, Soup Lady
"Love it, love it!! AD was a SACS commissioner? "

Has this been confirmed? If true this is very bad news as it may embolden those boneheads over at the IHL to consider "using" Angie in some capacity to help dig USM out of the probation hole. Why would she consider doing it? Probably wouldn't unless she believed the ultimate payoff to be a shot at the USM presidency. As far fetched and irrational as this may seem, it's exactly the manner in which Klumb and certain of his colleagues seem to operate.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

WASP said it, not me. Is there still a link to her vita?

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Chicken Soup Lady
"WASP said it, not me. Is there still a link to her vita?"

Here you go:

http://www.usm.edu/research/bio-dvorak.html

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Chicken Soup Lady
"WASP said it, not me. Is there still a link to her vita?"

I can't locate her vita or a link. Another iteration is probably being prepared for the IHL as we speak. I don't recall that little nugget about SACS experience from the earlier vitae. Perhaps it was inconsequential then but perceived as important now. In addition to serving as a SACS commissioner I understand AD was at Al Gore's side when he invented the internet, as well as a collaborator on the lyrics of Dylan's "Abandoned Love," a bittersweet paean to Shelby Thames. Hell, she's our very own Forrest Gump.

"My patron saint is a-fightin with a ghost. He's always off somewhere when I need him most."

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Fact Checker
" Hell, she's our very own Forrest Gump. "

Perfect observation!!!!!!! Perfect!!!!!!

Date: Dec 30, 2004

if AD was a commissioner it says little. the commissioner positions at SACS are elected. doesn't mean they have special expertise in the accreditation process.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"if AD was a commissioner it says little. the commissioner positions at SACS are elected. "

Au contraire. It says a lot. It says she's a wurl class hiney kisser. But then we already knew that.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

David,

Other universities struggle with the inside vs. outside hiring issue, when it comes to picking a president, provost, dean...even a department chair. But on the whole they tend to hire from the outside more often than USM has. An outside hire may take too long to learn about the institution... in the worst case, may never learn at all. An inside hire knows how things are done, but may be unwilling to change any of them... and will often be indebted to some of the shadier characters within the institution.

In the kind of mess that USM has gotten into, hiring the next several presidents from the outside is the best policy. Until every trace of the institutional culture that Shelby Thames has fostered is gone (and he inherited some of it from Generalissimo McCain), it would seem to be the only safe course of action.

scm,

Picking up the thread from some other contributors, I find it quite plausible that Shelby Thames encouraged both Angie Dvorak and Tim Hudson to think they were going to succeed him. (If either had gotten too upwardly mobile while SFT wanted to remain on the throne, he would, of course, have cut his rival off at the knees. Maybe he did do that to Hudson, over the last few months before TH departed...)

I've thought for some time that Hudson slipped the fateful envelope under Frank Glamser's door in December 2003--and leaked the questions about AD's vita to the press in January. There was never any reason for GS to employ such methods, or for FG to go to the press before the AAUP chapter's investigative report was written. I also don't doubt that Hudson tried to leave a few messes for Shelby to clean up before he left... He might have been gurunuburg, too.

What's more interesting is whether Thames ever figured out that Hudson might have been involved in discrediting AD. Or whether AD figured that out, since she was the spymaster, er, liaised with Pileum.

Right after reports started circulating that Hanbury and Mark Dvorak had been fired, some serious trolling took place on the Fire Shelby board. The trolls wanted everyone to believe that Mark Dvorak hadn't been fired... and to make everyone so afraid of Tim Hudson that they would run to the shelter provided by Shelby, Angie, and Mark. (Hanbury had been given up as a lost cause, because his firing was publicized almost immediately.)

In fact, it would be a disaster for USM if either Angie Dvorak or Tim Hudson were ever to return to the university payroll.

No Quarter,

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"Perfect observation!!!!!!! Perfect!!!!!!"

Or Ayla in Clan of the Cave Bear. I got so tired of her inventing everything that I even skipped over the SACS parts!

Date: Dec 30, 2004

robert--i know that thames ultimately figured out what hudson was doing. apparently found out what hudson had been telling some local businessmen. i was amazed at how silent bobby chain became after hudson left.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"robert--i know that thames ultimately figured out what hudson was doing. apparently found out what hudson had been telling some local businessmen. i was amazed at how silent bobby chain became after hudson left. "

Speaking of Hudson and local bidnessmen, he may be out of sight but he's not out of the game. He's maintaining close contact with several prominent deep-pockets Hattiesburg businessmen who would, if the opportunity presents itself, support his return as USM president. He also claims to have at least three strong supporters sitting on the IHL board (no, I don't know who they are). He's actually now hoping Thames remains in office for two more years. Two more years of chaos for the university, and two years of what he feels will be a distinguished tenure as president at UH-V. He plans to promote his candidacy as that of one with close ties to USM and the community, but having the advantage of a cosmopolitan background and perspective, i.e., Ph.D. from a distinguished eastern university, self-proclaimed international dealmaker, and current experience running a non-Mississippi institution. Shazaam, he's the anti-Shelboo. I ain't sayin' any of this is gonna happen, but it's pretty much the line he's layin' on the local movers and shakers.

Date: Dec 30, 2004

BIP,

The key phrase in your description of the current Hudson pitch is "self-proclaimed."

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 30, 2004

scm,

If Thames did figure out that Hudson was sharpening the knives, he must have discovered it awfully late.

After all, he had the authority to fire Hudson from his administrative post. If he had done that in March, instead of ordering FG and GS to undergo grilling by Hanbury and going after them out petulance when they walked out of the grilling session, he wouldn't be nearly so infamous today.

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 30, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"BIP, The key phrase in your description of the current Hudson pitch is "self-proclaimed." Robert Campbell"

I find it both humorous and ironic that Thames and his two erstwhile sidekicks, Hudson and Dvorak are three of the most shameless self-promoters in memory. I'm not sure which is the biggest "self-proclaimer," but clearly they're birds of a feather.

I'm departing tomorrow for sunny Florida, then time permitting, a brief stopover in Laurel for a come-to-Jesus meeting with Ms. Robinson. I'll report back in a week or so. Cross your fingers.

Happy New Year to everyone.

AE