HA: USM gets probation - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Dec 9, 2004

HA: USM gets probation

Date: Dec 9, 2004

"Distance education effectiveness"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the online university classes fall into that category? Isn't that an area the current USM administration was pushing?

Date: Dec 9, 2004

Another question here -- will the public be allowed to see the actual documentation for the probation or will it be kept under wraps? And if it isn't released, can the HA or some other body request the documents through freedom of information?

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Advocate
"Another question here -- will the public be allowed to see the actual documentation for the probation or will it be kept under wraps? And if it isn't released, can the HA or some other body request the documents through freedom of information?"

The recommendations from the last self-study ought to be fairly well distributed on campus, unless everyone has pitched them out with the trash.

If USM officials have in fact been working "diligently" under Dr. Exline's direction since last summer, there should be documentation floating around all over the place, because lots of people have been working on it. If the documentation isn't pretty widely available, then the process has not been handled correctly.

The formal, written notification of the recent SACS action will probably arrive some time in January, if SACS keeps to its usual scheme of things.

It is likely that the president knew that this action was likely to take place some time before the SACS meeting, since the SACS staff member would normally send a sort of "the honour of your presence is requested" kind of notice that the C&R Committee would be reviewing USM's status at the December meeting.

SACS generally communicates directly with the president's office on these matters. They do not address anything to "subordinates." This is because SACS considers the president to be the single person responsible for the accreditation of an institution.

The IHL board should take the same position regarding responsibility.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

Question: Will Tim Hudson get blamed for this too??????

Date: Dec 9, 2004

invictus--i think part of the problem is that the process has been limited to a handful of people. i kept wondering (since i've been through two before) when some committees would be formed. didn't expect as much as before because the process has changed, but I expected some. one of the big problems USM faces is that SACS wants three years of data on things--we don't have it on crucial things like assessment. sadly, some of the subordinates at USM didn't see this as being very critical and tried to put it off as long as they could.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

green hornet--don't know whether Hudson will get blamed. Do know this--he didn't like accreditation. "We don't need no stinkin' accreditation." He loved to say that european universities don't have it, so it is useless.l

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"Question: Will Tim Hudson get blamed for this too??????"

I think the spin is in this quote:

Since the last SACS visit in 1995, the reporting and documentation efforts were not done as they should have been," Thames said. "We have to do a better job of letting SACS know what we are doing, and how we are doing it, in regard to assessing our processes and procedures."

The implied message to the true believer is that (a) this is an old problem, going back to 1995, obviously not of Thames making, and (b) it's a problem of communication only, all we must do is let SACS know how we are world class leaders in economic development.

Old problem, easily fixed. Will the IHL Board buy it? Who knows?

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"Question: Will Tim Hudson get blamed for this too??????"

Answer: Does Shelby make non-stinky paint????

(the USM version of "Does a bear in the woods?")

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"green hornet--don't know whether Hudson will get blamed. Do know this--he didn't like accreditation. "We don't need no stinkin' accreditation." He loved to say that european universities don't have it, so it is useless.l "

He'll think twice about its uselessness when USM's students can't get any financial aid.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" He'll think twice about its uselessness when USM's students can't get any financial aid. "

Sorry, I thought you were talking about SFT, not the departed Provost.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

truth--agreed on the financial aid point. The person who had the sour attitude about accreditation was Hudson, however, not Thames.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"truth--agreed on the financial aid point. The person who had the sour attitude about accreditation was Hudson, however, not Thames."

Stinky Cheese Man is correct about Hudson's disregard for accreditation issues. Having said that, Shelby has also been disdainful of accreditation. Tim's gone and that's a good thing. Now is the time for Shelby to go. Let's not get divided on this.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"Does Shelby make non-stinky paint?

truth, don't you mean non-sticky rather than non-stinky? Like in the children's story of tarbaby.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

I was somewhat surprised to hear that USM was being put on probation by SACS. That's because many of the worst things that Thames and his minions have done ought to matter to an accrediting agency, but do not. SACS, for instance, doesn't give a hoot what percentage of revenue is spent on administation, how administrative and faculty raises are determined, whether administrators are hired without a search, and so on. Getting reaccredited is primarily a matter of providing all of the reports demanded by the accrediting agency and delivering them in a timely fashion, while being careful not to antagonize members of the site visiting team.

But then, Thames' record of pummeling the Institutional Research office into ineffectiveness (and the more recent failure to supply data to US News and World Report) should have made this outcome easier to predict.

So, what is the IHL Board going to do? I'll make 2 predictions:

(1) Make a public statement deploring the probation, while privately rejoicing in it. Publicly accept Thames' assurances that probation will be lifted soon, while privately expecting deaccreditation to follow. Renew Thames' term in office for another four years.

(2) If for some reason, Thames has now become too big a political liability for Klumb and crew, fire him and replace him with Tim Hudson. Publicly declare that Hudson will get the probation lifted, while privatedly expecting the IHL's new guy to accomplish the deaccreditation.

I would love to be proved wrong about both.

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:

So, what is the IHL Board going to do? I'll make 2 predictions:
(1) Make a public statement deploring the probation, while privately rejoicing in it. Publicly accept Thames' assurances that probation will be lifted soon, while privately expecting deaccreditation to follow. Renew Thames' term in office for another four years.
(2) If for some reason, Thames has now become too big a political liability for Klumb and crew, fire him and replace him with Tim Hudson. Publicly declare that Hudson will get the probation lifted, while privatedly expecting the IHL's new guy to accomplish the deaccreditation.
I would love to be proved wrong about both.
Robert Campbell"

Robert,

While the IHL might want the status of USM reduced to a distant third, they probably don't want a large state university to disappear which is what would happen with deaccreditation. USM is a major producer of teachers and nurses needed by the state. The board may be walking a tight rope here. USM needs to be good enough to stay alive but weak enough not to threaten State and Ole Miss.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

i agree that deaccreditation is not in the picture. here's one i heard today from a colleague--a real conspiracy theory. The ihl wants USM to lose its accreditation. Then they will turn it and the physical plant into a prison. Don Cabana will become the warden. Folks--I'm just kidding!

Date: Dec 9, 2004

scm,

How can the IHL Board bust USM down to a big community college (or a very weak regional university)--plus a few science and engineering units to be transferred to Miss State--without courting deaccreditation?

To accomplish one without the other, wouldn't they need to move much more slowly and sneakily than either Thames or Klumb is capable of moving?

As I said, I hope this doesn't mean that the Board will decide it needs someone sneakier, and turn to Tim Hudson...

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 9, 2004

And if the Board really cares about the production of nurses and teachers, why has it allowed Nursing to be torn to ribbons on Thames' watch...or the College of Ed and Psychology to come under the thrall of Dana Thames?

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 9, 2004

the IHL is not going to risk USM's accreditation. if USM were to lose accreditation look at the physical plant that will go empty. as you well know, if USM were to lose accreditation, we'd essentially lose all students. that leads to faculty losing their jobs. the IHL may want it to be a weak regional university.

as to Hudson, I've made my position on him clear before. Shelby Jr.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

I know nothing about Don Cabana, so this is idle speculation, but do you think he is being positioned to take over, at least as interim?? Odd, but that's the first thing that occurred to me when I saw his picture in the paper.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: New Adjunct
"I know nothing about Don Cabana, so this is idle speculation, but do you think he is being positioned to take over, at least as interim?? Odd, but that's the first thing that occurred to me when I saw his picture in the paper."

Is he the one who tried to establish the bailbondsman program at USM?

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: New Adjunct
"I know nothing about Don Cabana, so this is idle speculation, but do you think he is being positioned to take over, at least as interim"

Hmmm. Interesting idea. Well, I suppose that if one can run a prison in Sunflower County they can manage an academic chain gang on Hardy Street.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

I can see the headlines now: PRISON SUPERINDENT TAPPED FOR UNIVERSITY PRESIDENCY IN MISSISSIPPI

Date: Dec 9, 2004

Holy s--t!!

I disappear for a few days and look what ole Shelby has gone and did now! Yes, I just saw the SACS news.

Well, we all saw this coming didn't we? Now, it is time for the IHL Board to s--t or get off the pot. How many measurements of failure does someone receive before they are kicked out? Surely SFT has reached that limit now.

In three years we have gone from "on the way up" to laughing stock, to 4th tier, to shut the doors. Shelby needs to listen to that one honorable thread left on his head and immediately resign/retire.

Roll on folks!

Date: Dec 9, 2004

For those who want to see who has been involved in the SACS process, note the following: (this comes from SACS)

Orientation Meeting for Track B Institutions
Scheduled for Reaffirmation in 2006
June 14, 2004

UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI
HATTIESBURG, MS

Bradley G. Bond
Assistant Provost
Accreditation Liaison
bradley.bond@usm.edu

Michelle Arrington
Senior Reseach Analyst
michelle.arrington@usm.edu

Joan Exline
Associate Professor
joan.exline@usm.edu

Tim Hudson
Provost
tim.hudson@usm.edu

Gregg Lassen
Chief Financial Officer
gregg.lassen@usm.edu

Date: Dec 9, 2004

I thought Maureen Ryan was involved early on.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

yes she was. this is as of june 04. the turnover may tell you something.

Date: Dec 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"the IHL is not going to risk USM's accreditation. if USM were to lose accreditation look at the physical plant that will go empty. as you well know, if USM were to lose accreditation, we'd essentially lose all students. that leads to faculty losing their jobs. the IHL may want it to be a weak regional university."

scm,

I see little evidence that IHL Board cares whether faculty members lose their jobs. Its conduct toward USM over the past 3 years suggests otherwise.

As for the physical plant, couldn't the buildings that the IHL Board wants to keep be turned over to an institution that it likes better?

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 9, 2004

robert--note my silly comment on another thread. turn it into a prison. cabana is back. (and i have to say that I have nothing against him, but given the circumstances my strange and quirky mind operates that way).