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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
Post Info TOPIC: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
Miles Long

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RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
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And here's USM's big spin.

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Miles Long

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Here's USM's official press release.

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old friend

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I happened to be at the SACS business meeting where USM's probation was announced. It was very sad to hear, especially on the heels of a truly inspiring key note speaker -- none other than Gov. William Winter, D-Mississippi.

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Old Friend

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quote:
Originally posted by: old friend
"I happened to be at the SACS business meeting where USM's probation was announced. It was very sad to hear, especially on the heels of a truly inspiring key note speaker -- none other than Gov. William Winter, D-Mississippi."
Not the "Old Friend" but another "old friend" - looks like there are alot of old friends around this evening.

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Beat Up

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Originally posted by: USM ALUM
"As a very concerned Alum, and disgusted with this administration's incompetence, I might add, I suggest that the Faculty call for another vote of no confidence."


The faculty has already gone to the wall, time and again. It's time for the alumni to step up to the plate.

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old friend

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I'm not going to list my age to see who's older! Sorry, didn't know I was appropriating or misappropriating someone's name.

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Pressure from Outside

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quote:
Originally posted by: 0 degrees of separation
"As another alum and USM Foundation Honor Club donor, I would agree that this is the time for another no confidence vote.  What's more, I'd suggest that the new IHL (interim?) commissioner needs to be fully briefed on the recent history on campus (surely he would be open to nice, informal chat with a representative of the faculty senate or other body).  It is not clear to me that, as a newcomer, Crofts, is aware of the specific details of Thames' dismal track record.  As a seemingly legitimate educator, perhaps Crofts would be able to articulate/translate some of these issues into language the IHL board can appreciate."

As long as the community, which includes alumni, donors, legislators, the IHL, the ADP, the sports fans, the media and all the rest, that props up this dictatorship buys into his economic development mission and hype, there is no chance for a meaningful change in leadership.  Until the IHL (through its own initiative or from external pressure) mandates a change in the misguided mission and demands that the university be run like a university then another faculty vote of no confidence won't matter.  The faculty have not had a meaningful voice in two and a half years.  It will be interesting to see what emerges from the AAUP meeting today.



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Behind the lines

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quote:
Originally posted by: USM ALUM
"As a very concerned Alum . . . . I suggest that the Faculty call for another vote of no confidence."
Alum, I appreciate what you suggest. And what you suggest may very well happen. This institution needs your support. But the alumni as a group did not come through when the chips were down. The alumni association evidently did less than nothing.  I am reminded of the term "a day late and a dollar short."  Some alums did provide meaningful support and encouragement. Very likely you were one of them. But for the most part the alumni sat back and watched many troops fall. Two of the troops paid the ultimate sacrifice while some alums, disguised as trolls, surfed this message board and wrote rather vicious letters to the newspapers. I hope the accreditation probation matter will wake up the other alumni. We need all the help we can get. 

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Whodunit

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Interesting... Shebby says USM has to do a better job of telling SACS what is going on, yet he did not bother to attend the meeting where probation was decided upon.

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stephen judd

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quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"to any number of posters--those of us familiar with SACS have known that since 1995 we should have been doing different and better when it came to assessment and the like. it didn't happen. it didn't happen at all through the late Lucas years and the Fleming years. It was done piecemeal (although people like Brad Bond tried to get us moving in the correct direction) in the Thames administration. People knew we needed at least 3 years of outcome assessment data--and some people fought doing this (and they wouldn't be some people you would expect). This process has to be a continuous one. It can't be done like it used to be in the past. As one poster said, previous administrations have been warned (i emphasize multiple administrations) and there was little impetus to getting it done."

SCM: I'm not sure I agree with you. When I got here in 1998 the entire faculty was involved all the way down to the departmental level in developing a "Vision of the Future" thast culminated in some pretty clear statement of a strategic plan. Each department went through a process (at least mine did) of putting together a departmental mission statement that fit into the college mission that fit into the university mission. These documents needed to be created as part of what SACs was asking us to do in order to put forth a program of assessment, etc. As a new faculty member I found that work to be pretty stimulating if daunting, because it facilitated deep discussions in our program about what it was we were trying to be and where we were prepared to move in the future.


I think the problem is that we had a chnage in administrations and the new administration simmply let it drop. One of the problems with this adminsitration is that it has never had a comprehensive vision which guide its decisions. It acts and reacts in a very piecemenal fashion. I believe that is how it handled the accreditation program -- if it was going to get rid of the strategic plan of the previous administration it should have mobilized for anew one. It did not -- I was involved in someof the efforts that Brad put together but there was never any sense that ther was a real energy driving it from above -- my perception is that Brad was pretty much left on his own to try to put something together as bexst he could -- mostly as cover. I never got asense from him that the administration had any real interest in developing a serious strategic plan as a way of defining the university but instead as an accrediation tool and a PR ploy. I believe Brad himself wanted to do the right thing -- I never saw any evidence that whatever he was doing had any real support from the top.


 



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stephen judd

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quote:
Originally posted by: Miles Long
"First of all, Klumb is an idiot. He initially didn't know if it "was a single college or the whole university", then he said that SACS is a national organization...hmmm. Roy, do you know what the acronym stands for? Anyway, link-o-rama: Jackson Channel Clarion Ledger Sun Herald Hattiesburg American In related news, Auburn and Alabama A&M were released from SACS probation. "

"According to the statement issued by Southern Miss, SACS was concerned about assessment of institutional effectiveness, assessment of distance-learning effectiveness and strategic planning in academic units."


It is hard to have the academic units do strategic plans when the university hasn't articulated one for the academic units to work under. See my previous post.



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Stephen judd

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quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" SCM: I'm not sure I agree with you.  . . .-- I never saw any evidence that whatever he was doing had any real support from the top.  "
Folks I apologize for my typos -- I'm still a hunt and pecker after all these years. Pretty fast -- but way inaccurate. It's bad fingers -- not bad spelling  . . .

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Invictus

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Putting it in perspective
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This past year, SACS listed 768 member institutions, not counting institutions that were "candidates" & hadn't been fully admitted to the Association. Of these, seven (0.9%) were on probation & 5 (0.6%) were on warning. For an institution to be placed on probation for whatever reason is not common.

You can spin it all you want, Lisa Mader, but the fact is that USM is now among a select few institutions that have utterly failed in the process of accreditation. What is embarrassing is that this isn't a governance issue. It's simply a matter of administrative incompetence, ineptitude, inexperience, arrogance & butt-headed stupidity.

Although Ms. Mader assures us it's just "paperwork," I'd like to remind each & every alumnus reading this board that if USM's administration fails to remedy in the next 12 months whatever problems it has been unable to fix for the past nine years, YOU WILL HAVE A DIPLOMA AWARDED BY AN UNACCREDITED INSTITUTION.

Speaking as an alumnus with three of these at-risk pieces of paper hanging on my office wall, I resent the hell out of the fact that the president of the University of Southern Mississippi says that he takes accreditation "very seriously" but doesn't think it's serious enough to attend the meeting when he's in the same town as the meeting at the time.

Do I expect the IHL board to reprimand Thames for this? Hell, no! I don't expect them to do a thing about it, except release some platitudes about how hard they're working to remedy the situation & how things were really due to Lucas or Fleming or Tim Hudson not taking care of business.

Hey, folks, Shelby's known about this since before he came into office. Regardless of how long it's been going on, this happened on his watch.

FIRE SHELBY NOW. ASK QUESTIONS LATER.



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stinky cheese man

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RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
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stephen--the issue is assessment. i've been here since the early 80's and lord knows how much visioning and planning i've been through that didn't make a difference. same goes for the fleming era. in 1995 or earlier USM brought in a guy from Ole Miss who talked about what they were doing in terms of assessment--i was impressed. thought it would turn into something we should and could do here. didn't happen. fleming--we did lots of visioning and missioning, little assessment.

for me (and SACS) the simple question is: how do we know we are accomplishing what we claim we are accomplishing? the fleming era didn't get to that stage.

i was on the university assessment committee. brad got us going. but that was about 2002. Seven years after we should have started the process. Seven years after SACS expected us to start the process. we were behind the 8-ball then. attempts were made to help get up to speed but we were too far behind.

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Rachel Quinlivan

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Alumni involvement would be a great help to those still at USM, but I'm doubtful that this issue will be the unifying factor.  If alumni didn't understand the importance of many of the issues of last year then I'm doubtful that same group who chose not to get involved before will understand the importance of this issue.  Even if they do read the papers, it's hard to communicate all of that information in the limited space writers often have.


But I think it can be done to a certain extent.  I agree with Anne Wallace; part of the success in organizing people and protests will be to show that the image Dr. Thames and Lisa Mader will try to create--as we already got a glimpse of in the press release--is false.  Keep talking and keep writing letters to the editor.


Rachel Quinlivan



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stephen judd

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RE: Putting it in perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"This past year, SACS listed 768 member institutions, not counting institutions that were "candidates" & hadn't been fully admitted to the Association. Of these, seven (0.9%) were on probation & 5 (0.6%) were on warning. For an institution to be placed on probation for whatever reason is not common. You can spin it all you want, Lisa Mader, but the fact is that USM is now among a select few institutions that have utterly failed in the process of accreditation. What is embarrassing is that this isn't a governance issue. It's simply a matter of administrative incompetence, ineptitude, inexperience, arrogance & butt-headed stupidity. Although Ms. Mader assures us it's just "paperwork," I'd like to remind each & every alumnus reading this board that if USM's administration fails to remedy in the next 12 months whatever problems it has been unable to fix for the past nine years, YOU WILL HAVE A DIPLOMA AWARDED BY AN UNACCREDITED INSTITUTION. Speaking as an alumnus with three of these at-risk pieces of paper hanging on my office wall, I resent the hell out of the fact that the president of the University of Southern Mississippi says that he takes accreditation "very seriously" but doesn't think it's serious enough to attend the meeting when he's in the same town as the meeting at the time. Do I expect the IHL board to reprimand Thames for this? Hell, no! I don't expect them to do a thing about it, except release some platitudes about how hard they're working to remedy the situation & how things were really due to Lucas or Fleming or Tim Hudson not taking care of business. Hey, folks, Shelby's known about this since before he came into office. Regardless of how long it's been going on, this happened on his watch. FIRE SHELBY NOW. ASK QUESTIONS LATER. "

Keep going Invictus -- you are on a roll.


There was already quite a bit of pressure happening to start getting right for the oncoming accreditation review. Lots of work to be done - and done quickly by a faculty stretched pretty thin. The next year isn't going to be much fun and my feeling is that the students are going to take it on the chin -- our numbers are up; our faculty is down; space and schedulng is at a premium. And now we are going to mobilize the faculty and mid level administrators to do the work of ten years in one (bear in mine that the work done during the three years of the Fleming administration has essentially been thrown out and we are starting from scratch. There will be very little real thought going into this -- we are going through the motions. Maybe the faculty at USM isn't perfect, but this failure cannot be laid at the feet of the faculty. Parents of USM students and alums really need to make an issue -- I think a lot of faculty are about to become very occupied just trying to keep the school viable. It it time for alums in particular to shoulder some responsibility for helping correct this -- the faculkty is going to have to try to hold day to day operations together.


 


 



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EagleFan

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RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
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PROBATION!!! PROBATION???  Oh, it is only academic probation.  For a minute there I thought it was the NCAA putting us on probation.  Never mind. No problems. 


Go Eagles!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 


 


Just kidding. 


 



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eagle fever

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maybe usm's administration will stop whining about losing the bond issue and focus important issues.

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stephen judd

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quote:




Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"stephen--the issue is assessment.  . . . attempts were made to help get up to speed but we were too far behind. "


 


I agree-- but I think assessment occurs in a context. We have been operating for almost three years with no real context in which to shape our assesssments -- which is why so much emphasis has been put on numbers and quanitification rather than quality. There has been no definition of what USM considers to be quality -- "world class" isn't a measurement -- it is a hyperbole.


I love the idea of a university that "frees the power of the individual." The problem is that if you are going to claim that as your distinctive vision for yourself, you have to help instructors, departments, colleges, etc. shape their work to that end and to be able to clearly enunciate how our work does that in a way differently than any other uiversity might claim. Otherwise, we are living in a Potemkin village





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graduate student

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as I study for my organizational theory final, i'm reminded of something. an organization's leader must always take credit or blame for whatever happens. it's that simple. usm's leadership failed students, faculty, alumni and the pine belt business community.
remember, it's hard to sell economic development on a product no one wants to buy, particularly a tainted degree.
thames has been marred in controversy since day one of taking office, like the critics predicted.
shelby thames should take the first step to getting usm off probation – resign.

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Malapropism

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quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"...we are living in a Potemkin village. "
Had to look it up but it was worth it.

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stephen judd

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quote:
Originally posted by: Malapropism
"Had to look it up but it was worth it."
I'm a scene designer -- we make Potemkin villages all the time. Although usually the idea is to use the illusion to lead an audience closer to some truth rather than to hide what isn't there . . . 

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Otherside

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RE: RE: Putting it in perspective
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quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" ... -- I think a lot of faculty are about to become very occupied just trying to keep the school viable. It it time for alums in particular to shoulder some responsibility for helping correct this -- the faculkty is going to have to try to hold day to day operations together.    "

Stephen, I wonder if the "research faculty" who received all of those large raises will have time for this endeavor.  They really are very busy bringing in the money. Or do you think they will depend on those who are mostly teaching to do this work.  After all they are more experienced with the academic side of things.  Oh, but those faculty are now trying to get grants so they will get raises too.  I wonder who will have time for all of this administrative work? 



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Invictus

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RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
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quote:
Originally posted by: graduate student
"as I study for my organizational theory final, i'm reminded of something. an organization's leader must always take credit or blame for whatever happens. it's that simple. usm's leadership failed students, faculty, alumni and the pine belt business community.
remember, it's hard to sell economic development on a product no one wants to buy, particularly a tainted degree.
thames has been marred in controversy since day one of taking office, like the critics predicted.
shelby thames should take the first step to getting usm off probation – resign. "


Mr. Wonderful, please note the above quote.

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Mal

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quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Mr. Wonderful, please note the above quote."
That's all well and good but, meanwhile, what do you think of Potemkin Village for the Nom d'Aplomb?

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Mr. Wonderful

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quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Mr. Wonderful, please note the above quote."
Duly noted!

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Timing is Everything

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quote:
Originally posted by: Miles Long
"And here's USM's big spin."
So, the HA has reprinted the USM press release in addition to Kevin Walters' article?  Wouldn't it be interesting if they time stamped each?

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stinky cheese man

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stephen--it's more than 3 years that we've operated in an assessment vacuum. i'll reiterate--at least since 1995. for some of us geezers this has been a long time coming. it ain't just shelby but a lot of others.

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Invictus

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RE: RE: RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS p
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quote:
Originally posted by: Mal
"That's all well and good but, meanwhile, what do you think of Potemkin Village for the Nom d'Aplomb?"


Well, seein' as how nobody has used the aforementioned nom as a d'aplomb, I dunno if it's eligible, although I'd be willing to consider it as "Potemkin Village (Stephen Judd)" just as an excuse to get him in the running

FIRE SHELBY NOW. ASK QUESTIONS LATER!

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Magnolia

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RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
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The work that was done on strategic planning during the Fleming administration was substantial.  Maybe it didn't go as far as we needed to go, but at least it was a good start.  Instead of taking it to the next level (as our sports fans would say), this administration has thrown away anything with the stink of Fleming on it.  So there we were in 2002 starting over from scratch--7 years into the process with a president who has set out to remake this university in his own image.  For gods sake, they are even trying to rename the streets.....


Then Thames set about getting rid of any institutional memory.  Do you think this would have happened with Jim Hollandsworth in any position to do anything about it?


Now we have a SACS process that appears to be chaotic and floundering.  We've had three sets of people running the SACS show: Maureen Ryan, who probably would have done a decent job--was either run out of the administration or voluntarily left to go back the faculty.  Brad Bond, who seemed to be doing the best he could with little support--also run out of the administration or escaped back to the faculty.  Now we have another team who really doesn't seem to have a clue. 


I am worried about this.  We may have a paper work issue at hand, but the real thing is coming and it isn't going to be pretty.


 


 



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