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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
Post Info TOPIC: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
stephen judd

Date:
RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"stephen--it's more than 3 years that we've operated in an assessment vacuum. i'll reiterate--at least since 1995. for some of us geezers this has been a long time coming. it ain't just shelby but a lot of others. "

Well, I'll certainly concede to the seniority of longer experience. You definitely have me there.


I guess maybe when I came here I at leastfelt that we were moving in some concerted direction that I understood, and I understood how to place my classes and my teaching and other work within that context. You are probably right that the failure to arrive at something regarding assessment is something several administrations share blame for. But I'm not sure that the blame is equal as I think that the previous administration seemed better able to look at the big picture and prepare the stage onto which the actors were going to perform.  My memory of 1998-2000 was that a lot of work was done preparing the ground in which a plan for assessments could best occur. Why didn't it happen? I'm not entirely sure, but I do remember that as a time when we began to move toward crisis mode in terms of the economy, our integration of the technological initiative, etc. IN theatre we were every busy shaping our assessments to the university's plan of the time (helped, of course, by our own accrediting review in 2000).  But since the Thames administration arrived I have been waiting for some clear sense of direction in order to figure out how to position my teaching and now, the program that I am running until the end of June. And there literally has been nothing (other than "economic development" and "world class" for me to set my compass by. We are fortunate to have had our accrediting review because we can at least hang on to that as our anchor.


At any rate, I do take your point that this has been a long time coming -- but it clearly wasn't a priority for this administration, from what I can see, and after 2 1/2 years it is on the bubble.


 



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foot soldier

Date:
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Remember all those letters to the H-A saying faculty should shut up let Thames lead--well (with all due respect to those who've been pointing out it isn't just Thames), I really would like to say to the authors of those letters.

WE TOLD YOU SO.

(Had to get that out of my system!)

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Amy Young

Date:
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Myron Henry pointed out in the AAUPmeeting that an action like probation is a serious matter and that the administration should have been in constant contact with SACS and should have known it was coming. I get the distinct impression that this news is taking the administration by surprise.

If it was no big deal, they should have told the faculty and departments a long time ago to get busy, but this has not occurred.

If the administration did not know, why not? Who is minding the store (to quote Bill Scarborough)? SACS probation and a drop to Tier 4 - these are major concerns to me and I believe to our students, too. If this is just another example of bad management, it is once again affecting academics.

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foot soldier

Date:
RE: RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS proba
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"
But since the Thames administration arrived I have been waiting for some clear sense of direction in order to figure out how to position my teaching and now, the program that I am running until the end of June. And there literally has been nothing (other than "economic development" and "world class" for me to set my compass by.
 "


Oh Prof. Judd, how could you forget "Efficient, Effective, and Innovative?" The problem is it's been mostly rhetoric without substance. Long before things started getting out of hand (the deans were fired, the Glamser-Stringer firings), it was pretty clear that the Thames administration was amazingly incompetent. I remember my Dean describing their process--an issue comes up, they react without getting enough information to make a reasonable decision and do not consult everybody else, a mess results. Any "planning" that has been done has been mostly how to get rid of people that disagreed with them. I have no confidence in Thames assuring the IHL that he will take "agressive action"--where did that get us before? He has never really known what actions to take, other than to take instruction from Mader about what lies to tell. (Sorry, I'm feeling vitriolic this evening.) There has been talk on this thread about how much the faculty will have to work to deal with the SACS probation. Does Thames even know, at this point, how much he needs the faculty and the wise voices of the oldtimers on this board? I do not think he does.


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ToppleTheTop

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: foot soldier
" an issue comes up, they react without getting enough information to make a reasonable decision and do not consult everybody else, a mess results. Any "planning" that has been done has been mostly how to get rid of people that disagreed with them."

Remember this?


Bad decision, lie, cover up...repeat the cycle!



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Chicken Soup Lady

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS p
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: foot soldier
"

I remember my Dean describing their process--an issue comes up, they react without getting enough information to make a reasonable decision and do not consult everybody else, a mess results. Any "planning" that has been done has been mostly how to get rid of people that disagreed with them.
"


I don't know the technical, scientific definition of "megalomania" but this'll do!

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Another World

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS proba
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: foot soldier
"I remember my Dean describing their process--an issue comes up, they react without getting enough information to make a reasonable decision and do not consult everybody else, a mess results."
Like sands through the hourglass, so are the Days of Our Lives.

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Retired prof

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: ToppleTheTop
" Remember this? Bad decision, lie, cover up...repeat the cycle!"
I remember, Topple! Nice to see you back with us.

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Lots of Luck

Date:
RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
Permalink Closed

Cleaning up the mess before SACS makes a decision about lifting the probation is going to be a difficult task. Here are some of the problems: 


1. It takes experienced persons to know what to do. Those are in short supply. USM's institutional memory has been torn apart, inch-by-inch. Inexperienced rookies have replaced seasoned administrators. The college deans were purged and new ones brought in. A large turnover at all levels from the dome to the dirt. Many of those who were brought in seem to have little or no meaningful background in higher education. Those who could assemble the "reports" required by SACS are no longer with us. There is little or no continity.


2. Who will do the work necessary for lifting the probation? We all know where the buck stops. Most certainly those who were purged ala item #1 will not be in a position to do the work that is  normally the responsibility of seasoned university officers such as deans, provosts, vice presidents, and presidents. The Faculty Senate and the AAUP, both of which are considered pivotal at most universities, have been largely ignored. That, coupled with a very heavy faculty turnover, further complicates the situation. The morale level of those who are left appears to be throughly depleted. The IHL president evidently wants faculty to do a days work for a days pay. It will take more than a days work to straighten out this mess. A 7/24 schedule will not do it. The two tenured faculty members who left after the attempt to fire them will be working their butts off for other institutions as they did for USM, so they'll not be able to do it (although their knowledge and experience at USM would be have been very valuable to the accreditation process). If the remaining faculty only "work to contract" (e.g., a days work for a days pay), that will be far from sufficient. Too many threads have become unraveled. Even willing workers have to be trained. There is very little time for training. The trainers are gone. The current state-of-affairs at USM reminds me of stories I heard as a child. I don't know which story fits best. Maybe the one that said "The sky is falling." Or maybe the one that said "Who will help me plant the seeds." What a mess.



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huh?

Date:
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No more! No confidence! NO QUARTER!

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Chronicler

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WDAM headline news at 10:00 is USM SACS story - also lead story on WDAM website.  There have been TV teasers every 15 minutes for the past hour.

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stinky cheese man

Date:
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yes, the WDAM story is all of 30 seconds.

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Jameela Lares

Date:
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quote:
Originally posted by: Chronicler
"WDAM headline news at 10:00 is USM SACS story - also lead story on WDAM website.  There have been TV teasers every 15 minutes for the past hour."

(If an earlier version of this message shows up, my apologies.  I hit "Submit post" and the message disappeared into cyberspace.)


The coverage was brief indeed, and ended with the usual spin from the administration, the onscreen version of "Move along, there's nothing to see here.  This situation is under control, and you don't have to do anything."  There are few messages so powerful.


If the situation is far, far worse than the onscreen blip suggested--and I believe it is--then other voices will need to be heard, and soon.  I hope the Faculty Senate will be dealing with this issue tomorrow (a called meeting suggests that they will), and I hope that WDAM and other news agencies will cover it.


Enough, already!



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Chronicler

Date:
Permalink Closed

WLOX, the Clarion Ledger, and the Sun Herald reported on it too.  It will be interesting to see how quickly it ends up in the Chronicle of Higher Education.  Evidently there will be a press conference tomorrow in addition to the Klumb meeting.

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Unhappy Parent

Date:
RE: Putting it in perspective
Permalink Closed


quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus
"I'd like to remind each & every alumnus reading this board that if USM's administration fails to remedy in the next 12 months whatever problems it has been unable to fix for the past nine years, YOU WILL HAVE A DIPLOMA AWARDED BY AN UNACCREDITED INSTITUTION."


I am the parent of an alumnus. I encouraged my child to enter USM. I helped my child get through financially. I learned last month that the university has dropped to the bottom of the lowest catetory on a national ranking. I learned today that the regional accrediting body has placed the institution on probation. I want tell my child that I gave poor advice and apologize. I am an unhappy parent.



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Googler

Date:
RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
Permalink Closed

Googled the Southern Miss web site for "SACS" and came across the following.


From the July 28, 2004 PC meeting minutes:


Dr. Exline then reported on SACS accreditation. She indicated that David Johnson had asked her to do so, as he had heard we were in trouble. She stated that this is not true. It will involve some work, but "all will be well." Dr. Exline distributed a timeline for the SACS accreditation process. She indicated that they are getting the committee in order and everything is on target.


 


SACS Accreditation Timetable
6/14/2004



July 15, 2004
• Summary Compliance Certification Report Due -- DONE


September 10, 2005
• Compliance Certification Due


November 7-11, 2005
• Off Site Committee Review


3 Months Prior to Site Visit
• Narrative about QEP to Staff Consultant
• Nominees for lead evaluators for QEP and why they are appropriate
• Agenda for QEP lead evaluations
• List of questions you want on-site team to respond to


6 Weeks Prior to Site Visit
• Quality Enhancement Plan and Focused Report Due


March 13-April 28, 2006
• On Site Committee Review




From the February 17, 2003 Cabinet Meeting:


 Dr. Maureen Ryan, Associate Provost for Institutional Effectiveness, presented a plan for USM’s 2005-06 SACS accreditation, including proposed budget, committee structure, and timeline. We are slightly behind in our time frame and must begin immediately to form committees, etc. Dr. Ryan stated that there are major changes in purpose and requirements for re-affirmation beginning in 2003: old SACS system (Criteria for Accreditation) verses new system (Principles of Accreditation).



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Land of Oz

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Googler
"

Dr. Exline then reported on SACS accreditation. She indicated that David Johnson had asked her to do so, as he had heard we were in trouble. She stated that this is not true. It will involve some work, but "all will be well." Dr. Exline distributed a timeline for the SACS accreditation process. She indicated that they are getting the committee in order and everything is on target.
"


Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

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Potemkin Village Dweller

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Mal
"That's all well and good but, meanwhile, what do you think of Potemkin Village for the Nom d'Aplomb?"
I'd rather live in Potemkin Village than to live in NitChampBurg. NitChampVillage? Nitwit?

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Googler

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Potemkin Village Dweller
"I'd rather live in Potemkin Village than to live in NitChampBurg. NitChampVillage? Nitwit?"

Speaking of villages, it will take more than a village to raise Southern Miss from SACS probation.


(Nitchampburg )



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Nitpicker

Date:
Permalink Closed

Commissioner: We consider this to be "extremely serious"

In a statement issued by the College Board late Wednesday, interim commissioner Richard Crofts said the panel "considers SACS accreditation and procedures to be extremely serious, and we will work together to resolve this issue."


From today's Hattiesburg American article


 



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Nitpicker

Date:
Permalink Closed

Shelby Thames
USM president says the university's academic programs won't be harmed by a one-year probation by an accrediting organization.


From this evening's Hattiesburg American website.




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Eagle in Cairo

Date:
Permalink Closed

Let's get down to brass tacks here Folks.  How is this going to effect those of us with degrees from USM.  Is my BA going to be worth the paper it is printed on??  Don't get me wrong.  I love my USM.  But, my husband and I both graduated from there in the early 90s and I want to know if this is going to affect a job search when we get back to the States.  Any ideas???

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Let the academics govern

Date:
Permalink Closed

When I want my piano tuned, I don't call my plumber...


Whatever Shelby Thames may say in public, in private he indicates that shared governance, transparency, communication, accreditation are all bothersome hoops that interfere with his grand vision.  He has surrounded himself with advisors who are non-academics, sycophants or both.


Where was the faculty input to the current university mission?  to the reorganization?  to the accreditation process?  Not there in a meaningful way (despite the efforts of many) because Shelby Thames is too arrogant to believe he needs input.  He wants to dictate the mission and strategy and then force the implementation downward.  That's not the way that universities in the Academy work. 


For some reason, Shelby has convinced the public that he is running the university like a business.  First of all, he isn't because neither he nor any of his flunkies know how.  Secondly, a university (other than a diploma mill) shouldn't be run like a business.


It isn't just the institutional memory that is disappearing at the University of Southern Mississippi, it is the memory of the Academy and the way universities must be governed.


Let the academics govern before they forget how.



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Play It Again, Sam

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Let the academics govern
"When I want my piano tuned, I don't call my plumber...
Whatever Shelby Thames may say in public, in private he indicates that shared governance, transparency, communication, accreditation are all bothersome hoops that interfere with his grand vision.  He has surrounded himself with advisors who are non-academics, sycophants or both.
Where was the faculty input to the current university mission?  to the reorganization?  to the accreditation process?  Not there in a meaningful way (despite the efforts of many) because Shelby Thames is too arrogant to believe he needs input.  He wants to dictate the mission and strategy and then force the implementation downward.  That's not the way that universities in the Academy work. 
For some reason, Shelby has convinced the public that he is running the university like a business.  First of all, he isn't because neither he nor any of his flunkies know how.  Secondly, a university (other than a diploma mill) shouldn't be run like a business.
It isn't just the institutional memory that is disappearing at the University of Southern Mississippi, it is the memory of the Academy and the way universities must be governed.
Let the academics govern before they forget how."


This needs to be shared with a much wider audience.

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Newgirl

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Googler
"Googled the Southern Miss web site for "SACS" and came across the following. From the July 28, 2004 PC meeting minutes: Dr. Exline then reported on SACS accreditation. She indicated that David Johnson had asked her to do so, as he had heard we were in trouble. She stated that this is not true. It will involve some work, but "all will be well." Dr. Exline distributed a timeline for the SACS accreditation process. She indicated that they are getting the committee in order and everything is on target.   SACS Accreditation Timetable6/14/2004 July 15, 2004• Summary Compliance Certification Report Due -- DONE September 10, 2005• Compliance Certification Due November 7-11, 2005• Off Site Committee Review 3 Months Prior to Site Visit• Narrative about QEP to Staff Consultant• Nominees for lead evaluators for QEP and why they are appropriate• Agenda for QEP lead evaluations• List of questions you want on-site team to respond to 6 Weeks Prior to Site Visit• Quality Enhancement Plan and Focused Report Due March 13-April 28, 2006• On Site Committee Review From the February 17, 2003 Cabinet Meeting:  Dr. Maureen Ryan, Associate Provost for Institutional Effectiveness, presented a plan for USM’s 2005-06 SACS accreditation, including proposed budget, committee structure, and timeline. We are slightly behind in our time frame and must begin immediately to form committees, etc. Dr. Ryan stated that there are major changes in purpose and requirements for re-affirmation beginning in 2003: old SACS system (Criteria for Accreditation) verses new system (Principles of Accreditation). "

Googler,


This is all about preparation for the NEXT SACS Accreditation Review.  The Probation is because we DID NOT follow through on obligations from the last SACS Review in 1995.  In my opinion, none of the things mentioned at the PC meeting will help remove probation.



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Sam's Club

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Play It Again, Sam
" This needs to be shared with a much wider audience."
For months, we have been hearing "things seemed to have calmed down at the university, everything is better now" and we have wanted to scream "no, it's not!"  Well, now is the time to start screaming.  We have just received the attention of a fickle public with a short attention span.  Make the most of it - I am off to do just that!

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Invictus

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Eagle in Cairo
"Let's get down to brass tacks here Folks.  How is this going to effect those of us with degrees from USM.  Is my BA going to be worth the paper it is printed on??  Don't get me wrong.  I love my USM.  But, my husband and I both graduated from there in the early 90s and I want to know if this is going to affect a job search when we get back to the States.  Any ideas???"


Right now, the probation shouldn't affect the value of your diploma. If the USM administration cannot do in the next 12 months what it has been unable to do for the past nine years, you have a fancy piece of paper from an unaccredited institution. For better or worse, the value of a degree is always based on the current reputation of the institution & not what the institution happened to be when you attended.

This is the word that needs to get out to alumni NOW: THE VALUE OF YOUR USM DIPLOMA HANGS IN THE BALANCE.

Don't think for a nanosecond that Thames did not know this was going to happen. He was notified that the C&R Committee would be reviewing USM's follow-up status at the meeting this past weekend. If he says otherwise, he is lying, but he's lied before, so what else is new. The important thing is that HE DID NOT THINK THIS WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO MERIT HIS OWN ATTENDANCE AT THE SACS MEETING.

As an alumnus with 3 degrees from USM & nearly 35 of "history" with the university, I resent the hell out of this. I have told my kid that if she chooses to attend USM next year, I will not pay for it. It breaks my heart, but I see no reason to put money on a risky investment. I was the dumbass that kept going back. She doesn't need to repeat my mistake.

FIRE SHELBY NOW. ASK QUESTIONS LATER!

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Invictus

Date:
RE: RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS proba
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Let the academics govern
"When I want my piano tuned, I don't call my plumber...
"


Mr. Wonderful, take note!

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Mr. Wonderful

Date:
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Mr. Wonderful, take note!"
Duly noted.

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Let the academics govern

Date:
RE: RE: RE: Big News: USM to be put on SACS probation
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Right now, the probation shouldn't affect the value of your diploma. If the USM administration cannot do in the next 12 months what it has been unable to do for the past nine years, you have a fancy piece of paper from an unaccredited institution. For better or worse, the value of a degree is always based on the current reputation of the institution & not what the institution happened to be when you attended. This is the word that needs to get out to alumni NOW: THE VALUE OF YOUR USM DIPLOMA HANGS IN THE BALANCE. Don't think for a nanosecond that Thames did not know this was going to happen. He was notified that the C&R Committee would be reviewing USM's follow-up status at the meeting this past weekend. If he says otherwise, he is lying, but he's lied before, so what else is new. The important thing is that HE DID NOT THINK THIS WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO MERIT HIS OWN ATTENDANCE AT THE SACS MEETING. As an alumnus with 3 degrees from USM & nearly 35 of "history" with the university, I resent the hell out of this. I have told my kid that if she chooses to attend USM next year, I will not pay for it. It breaks my heart, but I see no reason to put money on a risky investment. I was the dumbass that kept going back. She doesn't need to repeat my mistake. FIRE SHELBY NOW. ASK QUESTIONS LATER!"

No one wanted this to happen; no one is glad that it happened.  At the same time, let it be the wake-up call to the IHL that Shelby Thames must go.  Let it be the wake-up call that the:



  • appointment of Shelby Thames over the opposition of the faculty was not

  • reorganization of the colleges was not

  • inflated enrollment numbers was not

  • vp's hyped credentials was not

  • suspension of respected, tenured professors was not

  • forced settlement at the hearings was not

  • embarassing risk manager was not

  • overwhelming faculty vote of no-confidence was not

  • faculty senate resolution of no-confidence was not

  • repeated cost of lawsuits was not

  • inability to muster support for the bond issue was not

  • constant hype, and spins, and lies was not

  • rankings drop was not

  • turnover of hundreds of faculty was not

Certainly there are more examples but STUDENTS, PARENTS, ALUMNI, FRIENDS this is the one that should shake you from any lethargy and ambivalence.  This is not an internal power struggle; this is not a clash of strategies; this is not a disagreement about leadership styles; this is the academic future of your university.  If you havn't been involved before, then now is the time to make your voice heard and to say Shelby Thames must go.  Shelby Thames CANNOT solve this problem no matter what he promises to the IHL or to the media.  He cannot because he has shown himself to be unwilling to use the rich, but diminishing, resources within the university - the faculty leadership.



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