quote:

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Originally posted by: Emma
"David,
I realize that it's not your plan, it's becoming your realization - just like it became many of ours in the past year or so. We are situated in many directions, but the most and BEST remarkable thing of all is that so many of us situated in so many directions want the absolute best for USM. We look at it in the long term, not in the "what can this do for me right now" way. We somehow become stronger by the minute. To quote Eric Luce . . . I believe."

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Emma, I share your optimism but caution us against violating the 11th commandment...a common error in this part of MS. For those not familiar, the 11th commandment is "Thou shalt not believe thine own Bulls**t."

Having said that, I believe, too. And I've got a lot of student loan money riding on that belief.

Let me add that it's good to see David Johnson finally free to speak his mind. This has been quite enlightening. You took a beating from some on this board when you first went on the PUC, and you stood your ground. I'm glad you are still with us.

David, there is a big difference between a "techonological university" and a "technical school." It could very well be that the IHL has in its grand scheme the idea of turning USM into a "technical school" - but not into a "technological university." A "technical university" is much like a "trade school." Most state supported "technological universities" are encompassed within land-grant schools such as Mississippi State. My biggest fear is that the IHL wants to turn USM into a "techncal school." But into a prestigious "technological university?" No way Jose.

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Originally posted by: Eric Luce
"
Emma & David:
I chose to come here and have chosen to stay because I have believed that this has been a place to be where it has been possible to make a difference.
My hope is that this continues to be so.
I don't know much about the 11th Commandment cited. Unlike the Constitution (which can be amended), my list of Commandments stops at 10.
Eric"

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Well, I certainly join with you in the hope. I don't know you, Eric, but you have stepped up to the plate and you signed your name and that gives you credibility in my book. What are you doing to make a difference? And, is it working?

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Originally posted by: Cossack
"All of these changes you suggest do not bode well for the sports scene at USM. You are eliminating a preponderance of majors in which athletes major. You also are eliminating the majors that the children of blue-collar workers seek, because they see that these majors lead to specific jobs after graduation. I suspect that the whole house of cards of the current administration will fall long before these structural changes can be made."

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No one on this board is SUGGESTING these changes. As for the house of cards, it's been wobbling for some time, but it hasn't fallen down yet. There's a Weeble in there is my fear.

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Originally posted by: The Old Shell Game
"I suppose this means we that would cease participating in the deception. "

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Geez...never thought of it that way.

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Originally posted by: Eric Luce
"
David
 
I work with teachers and with people who want to be teachers. I used to be a “real teacher” too before I became what I am now. I would like to think that I could still do that too. It was and is certainly good and honorable work.
 
Choosing to stay makes a difference, I think.
Choosing to leave might too (though I know that any of us can be replaced).
 
What am I doing to make a difference?
Is it working?
 
Time will help to answer those questions. These are questions that I ask of my self and they are not ones that are for me alone to answer.
 
Eric"

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You're sure right about teachers. I think we have some of the finest at USM. They've inspired me to do what I've done. For what it's worth, I'm glad you've stayed. I used to be a "real teacher" too. You forgot to mention that it is mostly thankless and underpaid hard work, but I know you know that, too. The questions I posed were not for you alone, by the way. Each of us is compelled to ask those questions daily. As for being replaced, I'm not too sure about that. Oh, I know there's a fanny for every seat, but putting someone else in your slot isn't the same as replacing you. Maybe a question we could ask ourselves collectively is what we are doing that isn't replaceable by someone else.

I think there is a feeling rampant in the dome that anyone can be replaced and everyone is expendable. I'm convicted that this is not the case. To illustrate my point, I am sure there are people who are teaching the classes that Frank Glamser and Gary Stringer used to teach (and Noel Polk and others), but I am equally sure that those talents haven't been replaced. Filling positions and replacing people are two entirely different pieces. The first is relatively easy (though getting more difficult in the present circumstances); the second near to impossible.

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Originally posted by: David Johnson
"Robert, I defer to your superior knowledge of how this might happen. Even if a takeover by MSU is the more likely scenario...and it probably is...in either event USM ceases to exist as it is now. I think your argument against Thames Tech is probably right on the money. Let's not forget, either, that the state is virtually bankrupt. Given that Haley Barbour is a close image of the White House Shrub, what do you think the odds are that he might propose privatizing one or more of the state's universities? Also, as we are already on the road to becoming a PhD mill, and with the emphasis on distance learning (the efficacy of which was one of the major sitcking points creating the SACS debacle, if I am not mistaken), what are the odds this might take on a different route altogether? Bricks and mortar are expensive. Of course, in our case, the physical assets are mostly in place. What's the market for such facilities? DJ"

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David,

The MSU takeover is just speculation--and I defer to contributors like Invictus, who know much more than I do about the internal politics of the system.  The reason I think a takeover could happen is that MSU is treated more favorably by the Board than USM is, and MSU has always claimed to be the only technological university in Mississippi--where the state can scarcely afford to support a technological university.

Privatizing can be done lots of different ways.  The only way that would be consistent with the Thames "vision" is a sub-University of Phoenix model for everything except a few privileged departments.  But it's far from the only thing that could be done with USM.  (The University of Phoenix is basically a scheme for taking advantage of the massive oversupply of PhDs in relation to the conventional, better paid academic jobs out there.)  In fact, the campus and the buildings wouldn't favor an online university, since it wouldn't require such infrastructure.  What happened would all depend on what kind of governing board USM got when it went private, and what kind of president it got.  A terrible manager like Thames could actually destroy a privately run USM even faster than he's destroying USM now.  The only thing you could  be certain of, under privatization, is that tuition would go up, because it would no longer be getting subsidized by the state.

I don't know whether Barbour is actually in favor of privatizing any state universities in Mississippi. My guess would be that he wants to spend less on them, and derive more political benefits from them by harnessing them for use by his campaign conttributors.   (If Bush Jr. has any views on the subject, I've never seen them referenced anywhere.  They certainly didn't privatize any universities in the Texas system when he was governor.)  Mark Sanford proposed privatizing Clemson, the University of SC, and the Medical University of SC, but this was more throwing down the gauntlet than a serious initiative--which would have required enabling legislation and lots of sweet-talking to get it passed.  It was more along the lines of "If you don't want to knuckle under to a new System Board of Regents, you can always go private."  Sanford hasn't gotten his System Board of Regents yet, but that doesn't mean he won't try again.  And I think everyone at USM knows exactly what a System Board of Regents is like.

What I'm trying to say is that governors, legislators--and, of course, bodies like the IHL Board--are naturally hostile to privatizing state universities because it reduces their span of control.  (Privatize eight universities in Mississippi, and there is no more IHL Board...)  Privatizing could lead to all kinds of outcomes (including some very adverse ones, like going out of business).  But what's the alternative?  What if the alternative is continued contol by a legislature and a system board that provide a smaller percentage of the institution's budget each year but make greater micromanagerial demands every year?

Robert Campbell

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Originally posted by: David Johnson
" You're sure right about teachers. I think we have some of the finest at USM. They've inspired me to do what I've done. For what it's worth, I'm glad you've stayed. I used to be a "real teacher" too. You forgot to mention that it is mostly thankless and underpaid hard work, but I know you know that, too. The questions I posed were not for you alone, by the way. Each of us is compelled to ask those questions daily. As for being replaced, I'm not too sure about that. Oh, I know there's a fanny for every seat, but putting someone else in your slot isn't the same as replacing you. Maybe a question we could ask ourselves collectively is what we are doing that isn't replaceable by someone else. I think there is a feeling rampant in the dome that anyone can be replaced and everyone is expendable. I'm convicted that this is not the case. To illustrate my point, I am sure there are people who are teaching the classes that Frank Glamser and Gary Stringer used to teach (and Noel Polk and others), but I am equally sure that those talents haven't been replaced. Filling positions and replacing people are two entirely different pieces. The first is relatively easy (though getting more difficult in the present circumstances); the second near to impossible."

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David:

 

We can all be replaced, but I support you in examining this prevalent, seemingly conventional wisdom and its corollary system of beliefs and related set of practices when you ask: at what cost?

 

Wasn’t it Einstein who claimed that,” Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything that is learned in school."

 

I remember what convinced me to come to southern Mississippi and to this university. It was people like Dr. Joe Holloway, Dr. Bill Gore, Dr. Theron Manly, Dr. Halil Ozerden, Dr. Nancy Masztal, Dr. Sara Jackson, Dr. Jim Schnur, Dr. Bruce Holliman, Dr. Jim Hollingsworth, Dr. David Huffman, Dr. Mildred “Betty” Kersh, Dr. Jesse Palmer and others who showed me that important things were happening here, that this could be a good place to be and that there would be a place for me at the table if I worked for it. I did not know any of them before I was invited to audition before all of them, but they made sense and they were right that this was a challenging place where there would be good work and much opportunity. I am glad that they invited me to get on board and I have few regrets.

 

So now, nearly fifteen years later, there is lots work and opportunity that I remember and am thankful for. There are also many more people who I have come to know and with whom I have been lucky enough to have associated. I must confess to a measure of surprise and bemusement at my “inside outsider” standing and at the level of acceptance and sense of belonging that I have experienced while making my way here. Mississippi has not yet chewed me up and spit me out in ways that might have been predicted in the home place from which I come (Philadelphia, PA, not Neshoba County).

 

So, after this stroll down Memory Lane, what now?

 

Well, I am not giving up on the place yet! I hope that if I am remembered 15 years from now (if at all) it will be well remembered.

 

As for you, I hope that you too will have few regrets and many good and strong memories of your time here that will sustain you. I also hope that we will continue to be proud of our common alma mater.

 

 

Eric Luce

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Originally posted by: Emma
"Well said, Eric Luce."

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I couldn't possibly agree more. Well said and I join in your hope regarding our common alma mater. I'm certainly proud of the many here who encouraged me not only to come but to excel during my time. Many contribute to this board. I appreciate your eloquent response, Eric.

Joe, I have worked with you and admire you. Keep that spirit going. Without spouting out generalities, my thought on Eric and the rest of the universe is to keep attaining what is right and true about education. Joe, you have your understandable world, others have other directions for understandable reasons. Some have flown over and beyond the radar - others have nosedived precisely into it. The USM tale is becoming longer and more conflicting than anyone could imagine. In the end, we must all truly realize that it's not the university that we oppose, but only a couple of mere mortals. If that's all we really oppose, then it will be settled in court. To stay strong, we will never be against this university - we will only be against the individuals who have corrupted it.

Educator: Never words more beautifully spoken.

James Silver was in the history department at Ole Miss from 1936 to 1964. Because of the controversy surrounding his book, he left to teach at Notre Dame.

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Originally posted by: Martin
"The IHL is reveling in the problems of USM. Anybody really believe IHL gives a crap about USM? "

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It certainly appears that the MSU faction on IHL (extending it back to include Carl Nicholson, who is probably the brains behind the ascendancy of SFT) has been the group that has worked the hardest over the years & over the past year in particular to drag USM down.

We USM folks frequently talk about our inferiority complex, but a lot of MSU admins, faculty & alumni have us beat hands down in that department. I don't know why.

But to your post, Martin: Most folks here know very well that IHL could not care less about USM & that certain members of IHL are devoted to destroying USM.