If the coast campus becomes a 6,000 student on-line institution, it very well could laughingly be referred to as the BIG EASY!  Even worse, an advertisement might appear regularly as a pop-up on our computer screens: NEED A DEGREE? WELL HAVE WE GOT A DEAL FOR YOU! JUST MOSEY ON DOWN TO THE BIG EASY AND SIGN UP FOR THE DEGREE OF YOUR CHOICE. OR, ALTERNATELY, WE'LL ENROLL YOU ON-LINE. WE'll EVEN SEND YOU PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE BEAUTIFUL MISSISSIPPI GULF COAST SO YOU CAN SHOW THEM TO YOUR ENVIOUS FRIENDS AND TO YOUR BOSS. WANT TO ATTEND A SCHOOL THAT HAS A REAL FOOTBALL TEAM? WE'll SEND YOU A PICTURE OF OUR STADIUM (LOCATED ONLY 70 MILES AWAY) SO YOU CAN FLIP IT OUT ON THE GOLF COURSE AND TALK SPORTS WHILE YOU WOW YOUR OLE MISS BUDDIES. ENROLLMENT IS LIMITED TO 6,000, SO YOU'D BETTER ACT FAST! 

* color photographs at extra cost

** 10% discount if you order your diploma at time of enrollment

 

 

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Originally posted by: Not rising from these ashes
"To me, that was the most disturbing quote among many in the HA article - the actual admission that U of Phoenix is our model.  UGH."

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Given Mr. Lassen's background, does this come as any surprise?

But playing the devil's advocate & adding the "classes that meet once a month" to online instruction, I'll note that a hybrid holds a lot of promise for meeting the needs of working adults who want, need & deserve to be able to continue their education while still providing the "face time" we all believe makes for a better quality teaching/learning experience.

I'll also note that withdrawal rates in online classes are extremely high. This is partly because there is seldom sufficient pre-screening to determine if students are self-directed enough to succeed in an online learning environment.

That said, I'll turn my attention to my favorite subject: SACS. When an institution reaches the point where a student can conceivably complete X% of a degree program, it must file a substantive change prospectus (essentially a mini-self study) with SACS. This is required by the Dept. of Education as part of the Higher Ed Amendments; SACS is merely the recognized agency for substantive change evaluations.

Has USM filed a substantive change for distance learning? Does it plan to?

How do you alumni who worked hard for four or more years for your degree view all this apparent move to an on-line Phoenix model? Will it strenghten your degree? Are you to be a silent majority as these events unfold?

If there is one thing for which a university's faculty has authority, it is the academic component. Academicians are the proper authorities in such matters. If USM is not aware of that, SACS will make them aware when its day arrives. Is the USM faculty not participating in these controversial academic changes?

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Originally posted by: Misplaced authority
"If there is one thing for which a university's faculty has authority, it is the academic component. Academicians are the proper authorities in such matters. If USM is not aware of that, SACS will make them aware when its day arrives. Is the USM faculty not participating in these controversial academic changes? "

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No, it is not.

I'm too tired to go find it now but didn't the President communicate with the Faculty Senate at the beginning of the summer with a letter that transferred student recruiting responsibilities onto FS at least in part?  Not that the President cares about shared governance but if he did then his definition of it would be "how others help me accomplish my plans".  There is no input into the plan - only responsibility (blame) for its inevitable failure.

In other words, he's never asked the faculty leadership for input into strategy but he has rewarded those who present him with their growth plans to meet his stated goal of being number one in enrollment.  Unfortunately, those who bring him the ludicrous growth plans are not the academics responsible for implementation and the academics haven't bought in.  This has been said before - he can't convince so he demands.

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Originally posted by: Invictus
" Excellent point, SM, except that the "value" of my USM degrees has been decreasing for quite a while anyway. The majority of USM's students have traditionally attended for two reasons: (1) it's close to home & (2) it's cheap. The "value" of the degree isn't particularly high on the list. This relates also the the problems USM has with promoting alumni loyalty, etc. What distresses me is that my doctorate entailed such little annoyances as qualifying exams (abolished in my department at USM years ago), residency (abolished in my department at USM years ago) & attendance at classes (soon to be abolished at USM). I have a colleague getting an online doctorate (not from Phoenix) & my employer will view his degree as 100% the equivalent of mine. I would complain, but the recent USM graduates didn't do residencies, either. (Full disclosure: My department at USM was abolished years ago)"

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Aside from the postings regarding the ill-conceived attempt to fire GS & FG, this is by far the most distressing posting I have yet encountered. Tell me, Invictus, why do you suppose the problems you describe are not equally rampant in Oxford and Starkville? USM essentially has a vast geographical territory to itself insofar as 4-year schools are concerned: from the Coast to the Capital. Why do you suppose things have run amuck here? I am not referring solely to the past two years.

 

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Originally posted by: Coase T. Rash
"
I agree that it's inferior.  This is especially so in my discipline, as well.  I think many coast faculty feel the same way.  They'll find it completely humiliating to be part of the "online" branch, and they'll move on.
You make a good point.  The letter campaigns have had limited, if any, success.  I think our only chance of avoiding this shift to "distance ed" is through VERY vocal opposition from the Faculty Senate, by senators from both campuses."

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Late on this,Coarse T. Rash--but, the continuing push to shove online teaching down my throat and the resulting subtle and not so subtle punishments when I refused to do it are part of the list of reasons I left USM.

Note also the language surrounding so-called "distance learning." We're not teaching anymore, we're "facilitating content delivery," as if education is a package you can purchase as easily as you can order a book from Amazon.com. It is the business model in action, not academia.

When I think of the most wonderful teacher I ever had--luckily the professor who advised my dissertation--there was very little of what I learned from him that could be learned over the internet. Sure, he could have corrected my commas online (as I'm sure some of you are mentally doing every time I post), but I wouldn't have learned what I learned by seeing him in the classroom, by watching him ask questions, demand thinking, give answers that were, in fact, more questions, draw diagrams on the board that explained things, say outrageous things to get us to respond. I wouldn't see him model what it means to be a scholar, to think, to research, to be supportive and professional and incredibly demanding all at the same time. I wouldn't have realized, on-line, that he worked harder than all of the students, that he was in his office marking up our rough drafts and dissertation chapters--stacks of them--improving a whole generation of students' writing, students who are now in schools from Indianna to Texas, marking up the rough drafts and chapters of students of their own. I wouldn't have ridden with him to a professional conference and had that conversation about doing a doctorate that changed my life. It wouldn't have happened in a chat room. After Fire Shelby and this message board, I believe more strongly in the power of the internet than I ever thought possible. But there is much that simply cannot take place on-line. The the Phoenixites are cheapening the values I hold most dear.

Question for anybody: can persons with these on-line Phoenix-type degrees actually get faculty positions at legitimate universities? I realize that there some uninformed employers in business and industry, but what is the academic marketplace for these sorts of folks?

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Originally posted by: To market, to market
"Question for anybody: can persons with these on-line Phoenix-type degrees actually get faculty positions at legitimate universities? I realize that there some uninformed employers in business and industry, but what is the academic marketplace for these sorts of folks?"

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I don't know the answer to your question but if I told my boss that a program was accredited based on the word of the program administrators and my boss agreed to support me in it and then it turned out not to be accredited, my boss would surely be angry.

Coast Colleagues, we're with you. I think that the spin-off remark was born of frustration and was probably meant to underscore the extent of the damage done to USM--both coasts--by such a move. We'll take this on as a whole faculty, not a divided one.

I have some reason to believe that letter writing campaigns, whether to the IHL or to the press, do more good than they seemed to last spring. I know that the word was often that IHL members did not read or did not care about the letters we sent then. But, as I believe Tom Paine has said a number of times now, silence will equate with contentment. I have heard from good sources that our relative silence--and I stress relative, because there's a lot going on here--has indeed been understood as a sign that all's well. If we are not content, if the administration continues to pursue badly conceived, ill- (or completely un-) advised policies, we need to keep letting people know.


Once again it appears that SFT has found an issue that will unify this frutifully contentious faculty of independent thinkers.

NO QUARTER.
Anne Wallace

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Originally posted by: Counterfeit Intelligence
"
Distance learning can be a fairly decent way to get electives & non-major courses out of the way, especially lower-division classes that are all-too-often taught using the "electronic page turning method" (Powerpoint) anyway . I see no difference in a student sitting in a 200 seat lecture hall watching a Powerpoint & the same student sitting in front of a PC watching the same Powerpoint. Sure, some things can't be done very well online -- science labs are an example -- but let's not flatter ourselves into thinking that the vast majority of freshmen in a "auditorium" lecture class are getting a ton of one-on-one with the instructor.

OK. Flame away.
"

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Actually, I think undergrads are not well served by this kind of class either (power point is one of the worst things to happen to intellectual discourse in a long time). We're comparing sticks with lumps of coal here--bad with bad. And we wonder why undergrads come out not being able to think or write. . . . .

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Originally posted by: Counterfeit Intelligence
 

"Distance learning can be a fairly decent way to get electives & non-major courses out of the way"

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Electives and non- major courses are probably more important than courses in the major insofar as getting a real college education is concerned. After all, the purpose of requiring a major is simply to provide the student with an in-depth experience in one subject matter area. A relatively small proportion of the student's total credit hours are taken in the major. Most college graduate work in areas outside of their major (except for a few highly specialized and marketable disciplines such as nursing). Few biology majors become biologists, few history majors become historians, few psychology majors become psychologists, few political science majors become political scientists. Law school requires no specific undergraduate major, nor does medical school. Acquiring critical thinking skills are far more imporant than the student's academic major. Taking the electives and non- major courses as a "decent way to get electies & non-major courses out of the way" is just not the way real universities work. 

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Originally posted by: Counterfeit Intelligence
" That's why I didn't use my "usual" alias. (The other reason is that I haven't gotten one of Mal'n'Vict's awards . "

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In honor of this thread, I would like to state on behalf of the Committee that we believe in Distributed Earning, and that my friend is what winning names are made of!  Your day will come.

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Originally posted by: double whammy
"$$Distributed Earning$$  Already the language of USM has started to take hold of you, Mal."

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Oops, did I forget the "L"?  So sorry!